Post AVJVAipGQP4xMJpeW8 by kyo@haunted.computer
(DIR) More posts by kyo@haunted.computer
(DIR) Post #AVJUekPWzqpF0YY7Em by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T14:00:42Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
The whole #mastodon issue recently made me kinda stupid.I never used to get really upset about something like that in public. If a platform kills itself, well, then I'll just go somewhere else.But that this person, this organisation which got massive donations to support a decentralized social network, is now building his monopoly position within this network is just bugging me.Just days after we got the official announcement that mastodon.social will be the defacto default instance, we already have situations where people who think about defederating with it due to spam issues are unable to do so because "...we would lose too much of the Fediverse!"Mastodon.social reached a point where it is too big to fail. Any moderation against the instance itself is nearly impossible because you will exclude about 20% of the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AVJVAipGQP4xMJpeW8 by kyo@haunted.computer
2023-05-04T14:06:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stanford makes me wonder why it isn't possible for everyone to boycott them/stop them from becoming the defacto instance? maybe i'm missing something
(DIR) Post #AVJX2OxkajLPLWxhT6 by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T14:27:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kyo Well, we can't really do anything about it.I'm referring to the fact that the mastodon apps now define mastodon.social as the default instance in order to make onboarding easier.Many, many people raised their concerns about making this already big instance even bigger by pushing new users to it. They proposed ideas and concepts how we could make the onboarding easier and still spread the users about more than one single instance.But Eugen ignored any other opinions and just pushed his will through, without further comments.https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/1023How to stop the instance to become even bigger?Not a clue to be honest..Mastodon as a Platform is probably the first place people will go to when they would like to check out the fediverse and therefore a lot of them will end up at mastodon.socialSo... if you are not able to build a platform which is as solid as mastodon and gain the same media attention, there is no way in stopping this. (without Eugen)
(DIR) Post #AVJYBUytgTPyZZOrEu by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-04T14:40:08Z
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@stanford How did Eugen do that, in what way?
(DIR) Post #AVJYNmfPkqbIto93fE by zlatiah@chat.zlatiah-no.one
2023-05-04T14:06:14.708Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stanford@social.arclight.pro Prolly not a popular opinion but... would it be possible that mastodon.social is not "too big" to be defederated?Heck, one of the largest instances, pawoo.net, is being defederated by a bunch of people because of CSAM materials and/or corporate for-profit ownership... And it seems like a good number of folks are quite outspokenly against .social doing stupid stuff
(DIR) Post #AVJYNnZ4Pv7VgQBVPk by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T14:42:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@zlatiah Mh.. the thought about pawoo.net is interesting.But I think the cases can't be fully compared to each other.They act in different spheres.From a European or even Western point of view, the impact of defederating pawoo.net was probably not as hard as mastodon.social would be.Guess within the Japanese-speaking communities pawoo.net, has a similar "too big" position.I just checked a bunch of Japanese mastodon and misskey instances and most of them are federating with pawoo.netBut this is just a rough thought.Might be a chance that I've missed something.
(DIR) Post #AVJYalyjcpN8WqNM2a by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T14:44:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Natanox I guess there are multiple factors ^^The most current one is making mastodon.social the default instance within the Mastodon apps.
(DIR) Post #AVJYdljwy640eqtAoq by chrisod@fosstodon.org
2023-05-04T14:45:08Z
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@stanford I understand why they made .social the default; so many were confused by the immediate need to make a choice. Maybe they should kick people off after 30 or 60 days, so it's like a lobby in an old chat room, you are not supposed to stay there long term.
(DIR) Post #AVJZgP9hUgYDR4kolc by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T14:56:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@chrisod To be fair, I understand the fact that people wanted to make the onboarding easier.But I don't think just making his instance the default one is the right way to do it, especially not by just doing it without any community interaction.People had ideas and suggestions, but there where never any serious discussion about them and if there was, Eugen just completely ignored it.I think there are better ways to handle this. Even if this were the only reasonable way to make the onboarding easier, it would be more accepted if the community made the decision and not just some people behind closed doors.The lobby idea is something I didn't hear before.But to be honest, I really doubt that this will ever happen.
(DIR) Post #AVJaTyHlfZvWZzA9Ts by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-04T15:05:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stanford I see. I think it would be interesting what @Gargron Thinks about this - he' most likely aware about the issue of oversized instances and, most likely, also already said something about it somewhere. Perhaps the problem is a missing alternative he trusts that's capable of lifting the load?With some luck on my side I might be able to mitigate that problem beginning this summer. In case Eugen is open for such a proposal, that means.
(DIR) Post #AVJbDgCRFFZpo8SudE by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T15:14:13Z
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@Natanox @Gargron Well, the idea to push all users just to one instance is an issue in general. No matter who is operating it.There were a couple proposals involving the use of a curated list like there is already at joinmastodon.org And I think if there would be an open discussion about this, there could be defenitly a solution acceptable to all parties.But unfortunately, these decisions were made behind closed doors, and any community feedback afterwards is just getting ignored :blobcatverysad:​
(DIR) Post #AVJd5RyoQhifIVINwu by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-04T15:35:05Z
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@stanford Of course there'd be zero sense in having just another instance that grows beyond sensible limits. My proposal would've been a strong instance that can withstand storms like when some other network collapses (again), but also has a soft- as well as a hard cap for maximum users.Is there a hashtag or server (Matrix, Discord etc) where mastoadmins discuss this? I'd be interested in solving this, even if @Gargron decides not to contribute to a solution to this problem.
(DIR) Post #AVJdjC8akZbjkMozHU by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T15:42:21Z
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@Natanox There were some discussions about it at the GitHub issue https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon-ios/issues/1023But since Eugen made clear that he made his decisions, I guess there is no reason for any further discussion for most people.As I said, there was never any community involvement in this decision and feedback or discussions like those at GitHub is just being ignored :blobcatverysad:​
(DIR) Post #AVJfsaFcfN7Z31iNP6 by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-04T16:06:28Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stanford I looked through it, read the article Gargron wrote and am not immediately surprised. While I understand where he's coming from, Gargron@mastodon.social's decision (don't take him out, he should see any criticism) is hellishly short-sighted and the decision being made behind closed doors crushes any reputation he had in this community that's being uphold by the very admins he just affronted. If he keeps acting like an authority, outside of the community, anger will eventually unfold.
(DIR) Post #AVJh0EC2ezw8uLFUJM by Natanox@chaos.social
2023-05-04T16:11:22Z
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@stanford @Gargron Even worse, he doesn't have to look far to see how to make it better. Just look what @dansup did in the official (Beta) @pixelfed app you can download from https://pixelfed.org/. A simple, visually pleasing list of instances, a text that conveys how they're all connected with each other, in one place.It really is a shame, and I'd hate having to work around Eugen's bad decisions.
(DIR) Post #AVJh0F6lG7J5kFmmie by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-04T16:18:40Z
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@Natanox @Gargron @dansup @pixelfed Yea, there are definitly other options which would work. I even think the user experience would be even better if users ended up in a community with a common interest.Or, well, let's start with an instance that is using the same language as yourself 😅​We somehow forget about non-English speaking people rather often.
(DIR) Post #AVK37m6bAiUB6Shrma by irenes@mastodon.social
2023-05-04T20:27:00Z
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@stanford it's quite frustrating, yes
(DIR) Post #AVLLZEP43tYf1FXtL6 by richard@mastodon.art
2023-05-05T11:27:55Z
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@stanford Just block and defederate ".social". No need to overthink the first step...Just wave goodbye. Ciao. Adios.
(DIR) Post #AVMInbCVza9P4fnM9o by exceptionalnull@ioc.exchange
2023-05-05T22:32:00Z
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@stanford z:lining a server just because it has some spam on it seems like an overreaction. There should be filtering tools that administrators can use to help combat spam. It's far more effective since spambots change their connection source constantly. If you remove the server they use they'll just use a different one.
(DIR) Post #AVMJBpQyj0BMAU77EO by stanford@social.arclight.pro
2023-05-05T22:36:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@exceptionalnull Never said defederation due to a spam issue, as this is a permanent solution.It was more an example of why it is an issue that mastodon.social is so big and has become the official default instance as made by the recent decisions of Eugen.