Post AVHJtM7s57xgDo8GZ6 by gob@mastodon.gamedev.place
 (DIR) More posts by gob@mastodon.gamedev.place
 (DIR) Post #AVGAuH65AejaAXhOqG by mcc@mastodon.social
       2023-05-02T21:20:54Z
       
       0 likes, 5 repeats
       
       WebGPU, the new graphics API for JavaScript, shipped in a stable web browser (Chrome 113) about… an hour ago!I have written a blog post about it, covering a brief (okay, not brief) history of graphics APIs to ~situate WebGPU in a context~, a brief general guide to writing WebGPU, and some specific resources for making WebGPU projects in TypeScript, Rust, and C++ (you can use it on desktop! it doesn't have to be in a browser).I think WebGPU is really good.https://cohost.org/mcc/post/1406157-i-want-to-talk-about-webgpu
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtJHgeB1xPNhYwq by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:08:14Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @mcc the bit of history about "big engines" enthusiastically embracing vulkan/dx12 looks like that from the outside, but at least for Unity it was almost completely the opposite internally. The whole engine around year 2014 was *completely* unsuited for vulkan/dx12/metal design (and still largely is today), given that most of renderer design was still based around OpenGL 2.0 / DX9 concepts. So how come you end up with APIs like Vulkan, with engine vendors on Khronos? "It's complicated" :/
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtK4FjbsXq0QLeC by aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:49:23Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @aras @mcc so wait, did *anybody* outside IHVs want Vulkan then?
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtKxuOgOkccSnOi by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:10:51Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @mcc Khronos discussions are basically *a lot* of conference calls and occasional face to face meetings, a lot of "voting" and tracking "who can vote" based on attendance, and a lot of writing proposals in weird dialect of English that is "spec language". Who wants to do that, and who has time to do that?One possible, I'm sure hypothetical scenario: someone who's not terribly busy working on the engine itself. Heck, maybe if they spent their time on calls they'd cause less damage to the code!
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtM7s57xgDo8GZ6 by gob@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T09:26:49Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @aeva @aras @mcc Sorry but this thread is basically disinformation.From the very inception of this, DICE was directly involved with AMD in defining Mantle, which led to Vulkan.Tons of developers, students, hobbyists, researchers, and yes also the driver and vendor people could all see the elephant in the room: GL was stuck in an evolutionary dead end and needed a reboot (again).Was Vulkan perfect ? No. But where is your glNext ? Would you really rather go back in time ?
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtNu7TE9LjjiJPM by gob@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T09:33:44Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @aeva @aras @mcc You attack Khronos for being bureaucratic, and yeah sure standards do be like that. Yet good standards don't magically appear out of thin air, they arise from talented, technical people, taking time out of their busy shedules to evangelise what they think is the right thing to do.If you think you're too good for this, and send no representative, or send someone unqualified to get them out of your hair, you don't really have a right to complain about the outcome in my opinion.
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtOMpkT7PAn9FAG by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T12:13:15Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @gob @aeva @mcc I’m not complaining about Khronos, process of bureaucracy! I’m saying that just because a company X is on the standards board of Y, does not mean that Y is what company X wanted. The theme is that “big engines wanted DX12/Vulkan” — well no, at least from Unity perspective at the time, Vulkan is not exactly what Unity wanted. But yes, I’m also not sure what it would have wanted instead.
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtOfGdvrc5xlxtg by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:13:02Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @mcc (this is 900% exaggerated, but there's a grain of truth)And so you *can* end up in a situation where company's representatives on Khronos do not *necessarily* voice company's opinions or wishes. They are just *there*, saying whatever they want to say; they aren't quite aware of what the engine needs or wants, and vice versa the engine is not quite aware of what they are saying. A gross oversight from "management" I guess.
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtOtRnDCqnwPI00 by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T12:16:21Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @gob @aeva @mcc there’s an idea that Unity & Epic enthusiastically welcomed new gfx APIs. I don’t know about Epic, but many people from within Unity were like “oh no, how are we gonna support that efficiently?!”. And yes, Unity is on Khronos so partially their own fault!
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtT3WJhdliL9OFs by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:14:43Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @mcc And then you also get nuggets like company CEO going onto google IO keynote and promising the engine will ship Vulkan support in "like 3 months", and that's *totally news* to people working on the engine since everyone there is "it's gonna take 3 years to get into a design that suits vulkan". Why would a CEO do that? Because another engine did it, and it's a pissing match between CEOs or something.
       
 (DIR) Post #AVHJtUmvsLYn5TPAg4 by aras@mastodon.gamedev.place
       2023-05-03T04:16:31Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @mcc and then you mix in some pride and hubris and arrogance, like "hey all the cool kids are doing this mantle-like renderer design, who are we to not able to pull this off?", and you start nodding along at the conferences and proudly saying how it's all gonna be cool & cozy.