Post AVE0KIx5PRTvdgmSy8 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
(DIR) More posts by wjmaggos@liberal.city
(DIR) Post #AVBxDm388fuDg4slBA by mike@robot.rodeo
2023-04-30T22:30:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm skeptical of #Bluesky because it's built on the same tech VC mindset that has been so harmful in prior generations of social media.I'm skeptical of the #fediverse and #Mastodon because Black and brown people get shouted over by tech leftists when they have the audacity to name their experiences here.That crap shows up in my timeline every single time I log on.Before you say, "my feed isn't like that," let me ask, "How many Black and brown people do you follow?"
(DIR) Post #AVBxDn0KaZGEdga2SG by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-04-30T22:43:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I can't believe there is a consensus on what black and brown people want. but if there was, is the argument that developers here should do whatever they want, even if that's not what the developers think is best or what a larger number of users might want? I know it's wrong to ask them to make their own fork etc, but maybe somebody in their community will come along that wants to do that. I don't see how this gets resolved otherwise. the trans community might want something else etc.
(DIR) Post #AVBxDo6OVVhm2mQOXo by mike@robot.rodeo
2023-04-30T22:30:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This stuff has to get addressed, and it can't be addressed by white developers, mods, and community managers just assuming they know what is best.
(DIR) Post #AVByqweuj8qFpWnUqO by mike@robot.rodeo
2023-04-30T23:01:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos The solution is for every marginalized community to make their own fork?I want to make sure I understand what you are recommending.
(DIR) Post #AVBzdQLLfFItnKlJgW by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-04-30T23:10:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike I am saying I don't know and we have seen different server applications provide different options. There will be competing demands. For example, I know many black and brown people said they couldn't use Mastodon without QTs. but others say QTs would increase the harassment. that's the tip of the iceberg.
(DIR) Post #AVCRthvYqtqrgGFlmS by northernlights@mstdn.ca
2023-05-01T04:26:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike I'm not sure that segregation is the answer.
(DIR) Post #AVCS34Zg1KZAWdTzpg by victoriadecapua@mastodon.social
2023-05-01T04:28:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike if you were actually paying attention to what people of colour are saying you’d know that being told to segregate is chief among the abuses. But hey if you get off on the tyranny of the majority keep showing yourself.
(DIR) Post #AVCSDbtmyZegm6umLA by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T04:30:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@northernlights @mike using different apps on the fedi isn't segregation, it's the whole point. we can all use different apps, server software and different instances...leading to a very customized experience. yet communicate freely.
(DIR) Post #AVCSX47eGXKFoKfsNU by LLS@wandering.shop
2023-05-01T04:34:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike Seriously? :eyeroll:
(DIR) Post #AVCScQTmZQIcb7aEyG by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T04:35:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights @LLS using diff software etc on the fedi isn't segregation, it's the whole point. we can all use diff apps, server software and diff instances...leading to a very customized experience. yet communicate freely. I did pay attention enough to know many people of colour said they can't use this service without QTs. and I have been here long enough to know that many here think QTs will lead to an avalanche of abuse that will drive them away. your solution?
(DIR) Post #AVCSrrKf0wdSDxfy7M by northernlights@mstdn.ca
2023-05-01T04:37:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @victoriadecapua @mike @LLS aahhh, foolish question: what is a QT?
(DIR) Post #AVCTJFNthG98diFWu8 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T04:42:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@northernlights @victoriadecapua @mike @LLS quote tweets. if we had better search on Mastodon, I'm sure I could pull up the conversation about this. but that's another thing some people desperately want, others won't accept. and like QTs, other server software that's part of the #fediverse has it.
(DIR) Post #AVCToyTE7OANRqs3nc by HistoPol@mastodon.social
2023-05-01T04:48:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @northernlights @victoriadecapua @mike @LLS Check this out (alpha version):https://calckey.social/notes/9diehzsmm6
(DIR) Post #AVCV8NH0E4E9pSy3we by northernlights@mstdn.ca
2023-05-01T05:03:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @victoriadecapua @mike @LLS Thanks. I don't actually have any experience with the birdsite, so for many features which former users seek here, I am indifferent.
(DIR) Post #AVCZg4c8VRWtcaB38S by victoriadecapua@mastodon.social
2023-05-01T05:54:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike @northernlights @LLS The solution is to force a road, and make a safe space for people of colour and other diverse categories in any large instance where they want it. It's for moderators to be reactive to the needs of a community, not parrot the views that technological solutions can fix social problems.You don't get to equate "different software" with "different instances". They're not the same thing.
(DIR) Post #AVCa9smJ4niLbH9GYS by ringwoodunitarians@c.im
2023-05-01T05:59:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike This toot looks like “othering” to me
(DIR) Post #AVDFCbLCSazGVcsuBc by codefolio@ruby.social
2023-05-01T13:39:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights @LLS Running a different client isn't segregation. Running a different server can be, depending.But if QTs aren't supported for (e.g.) Mastodon servers, then federating posts with QTs to them won't work properly. That's not full segregation. But "the features Black Twitter wants don't work here in the rest of Mastodon-land" is certainly in that direction.Some things can be done differently per-server, but some of them don't federate.
(DIR) Post #AVDGYQzdiIIkk0m5FA by codefolio@ruby.social
2023-05-01T13:40:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights @LLS Everybody bringing their own software is hard, and requires interoperable standards.But "interoperable standards" isn't magic fairy dust that comes from a corporation not owning it. It requires work for each feature that interoperates.Thus the difficulty with "we don't support those features, so they won't interoperate" on Mastodon's part.
(DIR) Post #AVDGYRVtmM6cM3rqWe by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T13:54:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@codefolio @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights @LLSI completely agree. It will be messy. But this is going to happen no matter what. Developers add features and other developers decide how to respond and we decide whether to switch servers to get those changes or try to avoid them. That's the way this space works.All I'm saying is it should also be thought of as a possible way to help accommodate large groups that won't otherwise join us here. Do this for journos and government accts too.
(DIR) Post #AVDQ3b6N4xz6emrF5s by LLS@wandering.shop
2023-05-01T15:40:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @codefolio @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights Developer-led development is part of the problem. Esp in #foss, it’s a hard sell to get professional #UX work incorporated into the processFor community-focused software projects to succeed over time, what the #community wants & needs should be a central focusIt’s unfortunate in #Mastodon that so many treat such discussions, esp those reporting widespread experiences of bigotry & abuse, as incursions to be deflected or dismissed
(DIR) Post #AVDTBBDnU7IqZOddxo by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T16:16:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LLS @codefolio @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlightsdismissing is wrong but how do you properly weigh these concerns? what if what most of the community wants isn't in line with the concerns over bigotry and abuse? I think the people who are already here, might be here more cause it's not like new Twitter than just because it's decentralized. making it more like old Twitter might get a lot more people to leave Twitter for here, but drive away others. these choices won't be free of downsides.
(DIR) Post #AVDXNe7SGkgPUCs6ca by LLS@wandering.shop
2023-05-01T17:03:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @codefolio @victoriadecapua @mike @northernlights That's part of the community-driven process.It does NOT help to frame discussions as "make it like Twitter" though, which is dismissive. Besides, the community-driven aspect of Mastodon is THE biggest difference from Twitter. New features and discussion of best practices for community moderation won't alter that one bit.One great way forward would be via serious #UX research, which afaik has not been a part of dev so far.
(DIR) Post #AVDXz17ZiAV3XXkPzM by btanderson@infosec.exchange
2023-05-01T17:09:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@northernlights @LLS @victoriadecapua @mike @wjmaggos I don’t know what people of color you’ve spoken to on this, but my frustration and sense of otherness comes from an unwillingness to even consider our safety—it feels like “go someplace else” was the first and only response. White folk aren’t monolithic in needs either, but I’m pretty sure they weren’t made to feel that way. That’s why it feels segregationist.
(DIR) Post #AVDclnxBr8kGhxPS08 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T18:03:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@btanderson @northernlights @LLS @victoriadecapua @mike no server should allow their users to be harassed imo. servers with lots of members that routinely harass people on other servers should be blocked. those basic outlines are pretty universal.QTs and improved search are understandably controversial. expecting people to get banned for saying horrible or untrue things without tagging anyone (meaning you only see it if you follow them since we don't have algorithms) is debatable imo.
(DIR) Post #AVDi8h2SERHxgzba7M by northernlights@mstdn.ca
2023-05-01T19:03:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @LLS @codefolio @victoriadecapua @mike Really? Mastodon prides itself on being Not Twitter, but 'the community' can ignore racism and abuse (of any kind, let's be clear) and that's okay?
(DIR) Post #AVDwUYmozb1LpOc8Xo by mike@robot.rodeo
2023-05-01T21:44:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @btanderson @northernlights @LLS @victoriadecapua White liberals (and I have been guilty of this!) are often too quick to offer pithy solutions to systemic issues of racial injustice.
(DIR) Post #AVDyIoMDTTFWYNhAMi by mike@robot.rodeo
2023-05-01T21:46:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LLS @wjmaggos I haven't know how to respond to this sentiment, even after taking several days to mull it over. White people want different things in a product or service, yet somehow developers find a way to find intersections of value and build against them.It's only when marginalized communities enter the fray that we throw our hands up and say, "Gosh! This is too hard! Everyone wants different things."
(DIR) Post #AVDyIp2kvJHEgJb8fg by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T22:04:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @LLS because when some of those white people do not get what they want, nobody says that's because of systemic racism. nobody says their failure to agree re what's needed is because of their inability to understand the marginalized perspective. developers are not responding to marginalized communities differently, it's only the post hoc complaint that changes.again, when black people want QTs and other marginalized people say that will lead to them getting harassed, what should we do?
(DIR) Post #AVE0KIx5PRTvdgmSy8 by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-01T22:27:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @LLSI will agree that who makes the software matters. We are all biased and when it's mostly straight white cis economically ok guys from western countries, it will come out a certain way. but they are trying to serve the community and make the best possible product. beyond educating developers, is there a great way to make sure you're hearing from a representative sample of marginalized voices and not just the most vocal/aggressive?again, more diverse developers addresses this.
(DIR) Post #AVF10R7Tcw7oI6gt1M by JustinDerrick@mstdn.ca
2023-05-02T10:09:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @mike It’s almost like BIPOC people aren’t some monolithic hive mind and each have their own technical preferences - but want freedom from new forms of the same old bullshit they’ve been putting up with for centuries.