Post AV3ZCQZIZGD0bK4fYW by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
(DIR) More posts by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
(DIR) Post #AV3Mu1UdrJ4UAZM0DQ by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T19:18:18Z
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Bluesky is saying that torture and self-harm posts are acceptable. That's the end of Bluesky as far as I'm concerned. They don't have a clue what they're letting themselves in for.
(DIR) Post #AV3N6zfPxZPiGoZxdQ by avuko@infosec.exchange
2023-04-26T19:20:29Z
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@lauren “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”– Maya AngelouNever seemed more apt.
(DIR) Post #AV3NClfotsS8bjWKxs by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T19:21:42Z
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@avuko Yes. I have over the years learned that with very few exceptions, my first impressions of people tend to be the correct ones in the long term.
(DIR) Post #AV3Nwla5ZmTddqm1zM by geoglyphentropy@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T19:29:54Z
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@lauren That's truly horrifying.
(DIR) Post #AV3OWIwbWaTHFdFcR6 by vruz@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T19:35:42Z
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@lauren I don't understand people who gave them the benefit of doubt to begin with.#BlueSky
(DIR) Post #AV3OdGlY1QJWWROtBA by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T19:37:41Z
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@vruz Especially given that Jack said Elon was the singular best person to run Twitter.
(DIR) Post #AV3Oob6Oki6mmOYS8m by vruz@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T19:39:34Z
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@lauren I had no idea Jack Dorsey was involved.I didn't have an opinion about them until they sent me an invitation link with their sign-up form.
(DIR) Post #AV3RKJwIIbrGiz5DLE by jbqueru@fosstodon.org
2023-04-26T20:07:53Z
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@lauren What's worse than discovering that those are big problems once they start to happen? Knowing ahead of time that they'll happen and implicitly encouraging them.
(DIR) Post #AV3RTNnXK0mdIZJ9iS by paprikapink@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T20:09:31Z
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@lauren Another point for my Always Choose The Path Less Billionaired policy
(DIR) Post #AV3RveMtJ84UnZK83s by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-04-26T20:14:08Z
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@lauren Im still trying to confirm if this is their actual policy. That no user or server admin in bluesky can actually ban or delete content, but only end users can choose to see, or not see it.So far, from what I see, it might be that later scenario.
(DIR) Post #AV3SG2RtUB7VH7NyLY by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T20:18:19Z
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@tchambers That control panel image seems explicit. It has a SHOW option for torture and self-harm, etc. Q.E.D., I would think.
(DIR) Post #AV3SdmAPfnm1jAWnSq by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T20:22:39Z
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@vruz I've been on their waiting list but the whole thing is increasingly looking like a horror show.
(DIR) Post #AV3W6d4IsczXll7VrM by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-04-26T21:01:22Z
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@lauren I was kinda amazed that any social network would launch with what in essence was a "Show bloody gore, spam and hate, and fake account content" toggle, too.I was HOPING that like the Fediverse that each admin of a BlueSky service can mute or block or ban such content for all. But not sure that is so, yet.
(DIR) Post #AV3XFuqIGY4VSGYjfk by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:14:15Z
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@tchambers It's not 2001 anymore. People need to realize this. This includes some of my contemporaries who are still living in the past. These kinds of contents are not acceptable in 2023, whether "hideable" or not.
(DIR) Post #AV3XtaHy6SItIBQ3hg by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T21:16:33Z
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@tchambers @lauren I don't believe "instance" admins have any say over what content federates and what doesn't.As in, instances (or "nodes" in BS parlance, I think?) are just account/data storage. Admins, as far as I know, have no agency and barely any power in the system.
(DIR) Post #AV3XtavJk9mNGDpU2K by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:21:29Z
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@rysiek @tchambers If so, this could likely expose them to notable legal risks. Claiming they didn't know the content was there is unlikely to be convincing to most regulators or courts.
(DIR) Post #AV3YGe6k4R0LnTAHjs by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T21:25:39Z
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@lauren @tchambers the whole BlueSky shtick strikes as "implement decentralization in a way that hype can be exploited, making sure any risks and costs are externalized to node operators, but making sure none of the power in the system is actually shared with them".
(DIR) Post #AV3ZCPWQSSJhM7irRI by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-04-26T21:35:25Z
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@rysiek @lauren I can't believe that is true. But cannot find anything in their docs or the posts there from developers to say otherwise.
(DIR) Post #AV3ZCQZIZGD0bK4fYW by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:36:05Z
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@tchambers @rysiek Please keep me informed as you learn more. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AV3ZTL3KKOvqPwBRrM by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T21:38:59Z
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@lauren @tchambers I am too lazy to dig for it right now but I remember reading in their docs pretty explicit mentions that whole point is that from the user's perspective it should not matter which instance they are on.I mean, even here:https://atproto.com/guides/faq> Account portability is the major reason why we chose to build a separate protocol. We consider portability to be crucial because it protects users from sudden bans, server shutdowns, and policy disagreements.
(DIR) Post #AV3ZfGkS9pWuXh2pBA by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:41:20Z
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@rysiek @tchambers Being forced to host Nazis on a node would seem a highly problematic model for most potential node owners who aren't into Nazism.
(DIR) Post #AV3Zyykim5pqWOZIFk by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T21:43:18Z
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@lauren @tchambers also this:https://atproto.com/guides/overview#speech-reach-and-moderation> ATP's model is that speech and reach should be two separate layers, built to work with each other. The “speech” layer should remain neutral, distributing authority and designed to ensure everyone has a voice. The “reach” layer lives on top, built for flexibility and designed to scale."Speech" is what nodes do, "reach" is what (winner-takes-all bigger-is-better) recommendation algorithms do.Node admins have no say over recco algos.
(DIR) Post #AV3ZyzFuu6my59ACsS by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:44:54Z
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@rysiek @tchambers Hard to see how that's not going to be a train wreck deluxe.
(DIR) Post #AV3aOOqusBDqhzaUiG by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:49:29Z
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@rysiek @tchambers Which brings up the inevitable question: "What happens to those node operators when their systems start filling up with CSAM and other illicit materials?"
(DIR) Post #AV3at7U5UtsZoqYf6u by moira@mastodon.murkworks.net
2023-04-26T21:54:46Z
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@lauren Can you throw me a link to this? Thanks.
(DIR) Post #AV3ayMnTzZVEl78Exk by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-26T21:55:58Z
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@moira https://mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@lauren/110263528557719301
(DIR) Post #AV3b9HTi6kwrRq5VdQ by moira@mastodon.murkworks.net
2023-04-26T21:56:54Z
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@lauren Ah, I missed the subheader before. Thanks.
(DIR) Post #AV3blezB9igFMM6jTM by Grant_M@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T22:04:51Z
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@lauren Jack and Eloon are each other working together on a project.
(DIR) Post #AV3fR3ujg3VOPPSlTk by cazabon@mindly.social
2023-04-26T22:45:57Z
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@lauren Egads."We refuse to take an ethical stand one way or the other" is still taking a stand. The wrong one.I'm reminded of the Rush lyric, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" .
(DIR) Post #AV3hW2uZ262seft2yO by noondlyt@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T23:09:11Z
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@lauren Bluesky is Jack who shares the same philosophy as elon, his brother in crypto, and the guy he still thinks best to run twitter, where there are posts like this now. Jack is a POS and people need to wake up to this fact.
(DIR) Post #AV3hr2Q63TIfDDe6FM by Fayedray@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T23:13:05Z
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@lauren if they allow self harm posts that means they allow people to tell others to self harm. It isn't even a free speech thing it's a right to threaten and intimidate.
(DIR) Post #AV3idx3ylAlOmvclMG by TAI@mstdn.social
2023-04-26T23:21:35Z
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@lauren if we can have a flip the camera option, where's the flip the target button. Let me know when they're discussing executing billionaires......those people are just too damn dangerous to exist.
(DIR) Post #AV3juSI6WUwsE8fGaG by Waterloo2@mstdn.party
2023-04-26T23:36:01Z
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@lauren no thanks Twitter is bad enough
(DIR) Post #AV3tiXwkfXjlpmdZeS by YourPalMichael@me.dm
2023-04-27T01:18:01Z
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@tchambers @rysiek @lauren from what I’ve seen, most of the effort has been around building tools for when they open up federation in a couple weeks. There’s also the scenarios when content might not explicitly be bad content, but discussion around those topics that might get swept up by the filter.
(DIR) Post #AV3tiYl5eO0GLuBm76 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T01:25:58Z
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@YourPalMichael @tchambers @rysiek The trolls, CSAM-lovers, Nazis, and others of the ilk will likely bury them in illicit and horrific content in very short order.
(DIR) Post #AV3u6I934SD5mBiBBQ by YourPalMichael@me.dm
2023-04-27T01:25:31Z
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@tchambers @rysiek @lauren there will be multiple layers of moderation: automated filtering, the manual moderation that admins do, and moderation filters that users can build, subscribe to, and customize https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/4-13-2023-moderation
(DIR) Post #AV3u6IjYshPvbQnL60 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T01:30:18Z
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@YourPalMichael @tchambers @rysiek Anyone running a node containing illicit or otherwise objectionable content will likely find themselves responsible for it. Claiming you didn't know it was there or that you can't control it isn't going to fly. Are the CSAM-lovers going to label their content? Or will they try to hide it to make the most use possible of other people's nodes. But when those nodes are found to be carrying that content and unable to stop it, they will be in big, big trouble. In some countries, that will also include hate speech. Not to mention all the other kinds of illicit activities where the "they didn't know it was there and can't stop it" approach won't be accepted by courts. Labeling is by and large not an excuse in the regulations and laws. They say you can't have the content, period.
(DIR) Post #AV3uR5fCfgpf9BfYlE by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-04-27T01:32:14Z
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@YourPalMichael @rysiek @lauren Saw that but wasn't sure what "we might boot" actually means... Also unclear: if it does mean servers can ban/remove content, of their own server fully, not just label it... it sounds like they can't in essence "fediblock" it from other bluesky servers: "We won't always control where stuff is hosted in a decentralized network..."All still learning, may be wrong on that - but it was my first read.
(DIR) Post #AV3uR6Qhp4pVWVtUno by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T01:34:03Z
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@tchambers @YourPalMichael @rysiek Anyone playing with that stuff is asking for a legal nightmare. Of course most people won't be cognizant of that until it's too late. Just like so many people who thought Tor was anonymous! Or Bitcoin!
(DIR) Post #AV3vG3NOw0D0p3dxjM by YourPalMichael@me.dm
2023-04-27T01:43:13Z
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@lauren @tchambers @rysiek those aren’t problems unique to that platform. That first layer of filtering is more akin to the content warnings people can add to posts on Mastodon, but automated so users are can avoid content that is triggering to them. The community labeling system can be both automated or done manually. Someone could build a filter that hides content about spiders if that’s a phobia for them. Admins will still be responsible for their own servers and can ban users.
(DIR) Post #AV3w1FnoYJumyIVN8C by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T01:51:44Z
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@YourPalMichael @tchambers @rysiek I should be clear that I believe #Mastodon will eventually find itself in the same situation vis-a-vis courts and regulators, including the kinds of government ID requirements for access that are coming down the line eventually globally. It's starting with the largest services, but will inevitably work its way down. Bluesky may get so much attention because of its connection to Jack that it will be in the legal and regulatory spotlight much faster than Mastodon, but it will come everywhere with time.
(DIR) Post #AV3wmCuB8tffb0s3hQ by YourPalMichael@me.dm
2023-04-27T02:00:13Z
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@lauren it will definitely be interesting to see how governments deal with these federated systems. The parts of Mastodon that I’ve seen so far have been good about defederating from instances that allow illegal/bad content, but how much trouble might admins get in if they miss stuff from another instance?
(DIR) Post #AV42bqe9dxc5OLorg0 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T03:03:32Z
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@rysiek @lauren @tchambers I read the same, but interpreted it differently. It's bad, but different bad?I read it as:* User data is stored in Merkle trees. Basically github repos where each post, like, comment etc, is like a commit.* Each commit author is a DID, which is stable.* You can host your GitHub repo of activity on any host. That's the "speech" part. You can set up your own lik Nazi repo if you want.* But search indexes across hosts. That's the "reach" part. Host admins filter
(DIR) Post #AV42brGRLcEpJ5jRLs by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:05:32Z
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@mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers If the Nazis or CSAM-lovers or other illicit ops can set up a repo on your node without your knowledge (or at least control), courts will likely still find you responsible. Tor operators tried to evade this, and largely failed.
(DIR) Post #AV43VKPueyD1eLc44O by dr2chase@ohai.social
2023-04-27T03:15:28Z
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@lauren @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers I'm getting a techno-Libertarian aroma from all this, i.e., these guys won't kick the Nazi out of the bar.
(DIR) Post #AV44C6mHFJs1ngTN7Q by jadebees@better.boston
2023-04-27T03:17:25Z
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@tchambers @lauren How would this even work? Do they seriously trust every pervert to tag their torture properly?
(DIR) Post #AV44C7lxXzD6szKdGK by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:23:24Z
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@jadebees @tchambers Bizarrely, that seems to be their hope.
(DIR) Post #AV44SiujDwdeiALfI8 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T03:07:03Z
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@rysiek @lauren @tchambers I see confusion/possible jeopardy in that today, because there's no distinction between the AT protocol (git in this analogy) and Bluesky (GitHub in this analogy). Because BlueSky is the only instance of the AT protocol.The maintainers of git can say, "Hey, Nazis might use this! We have no control! Don't blame us!" but GitHub can't say the same if they host illegal/harmful content.
(DIR) Post #AV44SjYQqKOihIvNB2 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T03:12:19Z
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@rysiek @lauren @tchambers I do see the devs talking about actively building in the ability to block and ban users. I think block is coming this or next week.And I think AT Protocol host admins can build their own pluggable indexers, and feed algorithms. So no one can make you host CSAM, or any content you don't want. At least, that's my understanding? I could be wrong.Their "what's hot" feed is a placeholder implementation that just filters on likeCount > 8. But admins can roll their own
(DIR) Post #AV44SllccG8XYn6w0u by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:26:25Z
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@mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers And what if the content is encrypted or otherwise obscured so that the node admin can't recognize it, but is still unwittingly participating in its storage and distribution?
(DIR) Post #AV454zlZ14IpyvJLxg by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:33:21Z
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@lauren Those concerns are orthogonal from a technological perspective.e.g. SILC (Secure Internet Live Conferencing) is end-to-end encrypted with Perfect Forward Secrecy & has mitigations to defend against malicious server operators from eavesdropping, yet it does not prohibit server operators or channel operators from kicking/banning abuse.The falsehood that end-to-end encrypted messaging facilitates CSAM is a canard.Also see: @alexwinter's TEDx Talk.@mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV45FTVPIhb772kd1M by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T03:35:12Z
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@lauren @rysiek @tchambers I think that risk exists today for Mastodon too? And most of the web?If I share a link to my blog here, every Masto instance of my followers goes to that blog to generate a preview. That preview image could be a PNG that contains secrets through steganography. No one would know!The only recourse is if I act out too much and get caught, I can be banned, or my instance can be defederated.It's the warez problem all over again, 20 years later, with fewer rar files🤷🏿♂️
(DIR) Post #AV45T6KIHFnBHH3BVw by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:37:41Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers The reality is that any attempt to weaken end-to-end encryption (for law enforcement or any other reason) creates horrible weaknesses that will impact law-abiding citizens in all manner of negative ways. That said, it's coming. At some point in the not too distant future, most countries will outlaw use of end-to-end crypto in one form or another, starting with the major platforms. It's going to happen, especially given the pushback against on-device scanning schemes that were also awful.
(DIR) Post #AV45e3b6lNgy038hUW by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:39:40Z
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@mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Of course. That's why there's this increasing push to require government IDs for access to social media, and ultimately to anything considered "inappropriate for children" -- and more. Like I said, this will not happen overnight, but it's going to happen. It will happen first to the big platforms and to any ecosystem that gets a lot of public attention.
(DIR) Post #AV45tVT5QIVCmakozY by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:42:29Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers I should add, I define end-to-end crypto to not include backdoors of any kind.
(DIR) Post #AV469ZtQjtNf8ijvKi by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:45:19Z
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@lauren Push back may still be necessary. SILC (and SSH for that matter) were both developed at a time when even exporting so-called "strong cryptography" from the USA was considered illegal.In other words: the world has gotten friendlier to cryptography, not the other way around.Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernstein_v._United_States@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV46CzQiFaNND2vz0K by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:45:58Z
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@lauren Yeah, SILC (and OpenSSH) have always included complete source code. Making "backdoors" a lot more challenging to hide. Both projects have already undergone peer review by many of the best experts in the field. @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV46EiDzBqm0QYnpWS by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:46:16Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Have you checked the UK lately?
(DIR) Post #AV46KTWQlaeOZ9B6Ku by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:47:19Z
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@lauren I do not live in the UK, nor do I have any plans to emigrate there, particularly post Brexit. I am also not an attorney, nor can I recall a single piece of cryptographic code of merit to have originated out of the UK in decades, so, why should I care? My past employers (some UK based) were also: bad employers. @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV46M9nN55zpxnu6BE by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:47:28Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Or have you seen the various statements from Signal about pulling out of countries where end-to-end crypto is made illegal? They're not just saying that for jollies. They know what's coming.
(DIR) Post #AV46T0adhlL7RODQq8 by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:48:52Z
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@lauren I know Moxie personally, and do not consider Signal to be a protocol of merit. I have written about this publicly, repeatedly, for years. I know some of their other devs and even offered to work for them to fix their problems, but there are court transcripts with Signal logs entered as evidence, I consider them non trustworthy, to understate it.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV46ZlUQFIKSdRWsoy by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:50:07Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers EFF has noted recently that some proposed legislation here in the U.S. could make VPN use illegal. Hitting pretty close to home.
(DIR) Post #AV46egor2Otlb8R0Vs by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T03:50:56Z
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@lauren @rysiek @tchambers Yeah, I made this sequence of faces 🤨😮😫 when I realized that we were all rushing to bind our DIDs to DNS entries that we registered for and paid for with credit cards.
(DIR) Post #AV46iMpRIuq8kySh4y by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:51:38Z
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@lauren " pulling out of countries where end-to-end crypto is made illegal" seems to be rather different than, e.g. (now PhD) Niels Provos' efforts to work on OpenSSH by DRIVING ACROSS THE USA BORDER so he was not in violation of international laws while he was a grad student at UMich. Niels Provos did self sacrifice to help all, Signal has not demonstrated anything approaching that, anywhere, ever.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV46kf5eNaBHyN8e3s by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:52:09Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers The technical merits of Signal are not the issue. The issue is that countries are going ahead with banning e-e crypto, and the services that use it will be forced to end its use in those countries. And the U.S. is not immune.
(DIR) Post #AV474W7fQiEVx6Y8bw by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:55:35Z
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@lauren So I guess people should contact their legislatures? As it stands: FreeS/WAN, OpenIKED, Vula, Wireguard, OpenVPN and more exist, with complete source code, accessible internationally. So, legislatures will be hard pressed to put that genie back into a bottle; particularly since USG and .mil utilize much of that already, as do Fortune 500 companies. You can't just legislate away functioning infrastructure via magic, it doesn't work that way. @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV47C9RXdSB9viUBl2 by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T03:56:59Z
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@lauren The US is of course not immune, it's one of the worst places on Earth for human rights abuses and privacy violations. But two decades ago there were not the preponderance of multiple (some interoperable) encryption tools that exist now. I had Cisco VPN concentrator CD-ROMs which said: "Not for export outside of the USA" and "Made in Mexico" in the same friggin label two decades ago.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV47LzmCQn9eqQqIe8 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T03:58:49Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Most of these efforts are bipartisan. Good luck with the legislatures. And the open source efforts don't matter much, since most people can't or won't use them. And all it takes is a few high profile prosecutions to really tamp it all down. You can't legislate away functioning infrastructure overnight, but you can change it enormously over time. Like they did in China.
(DIR) Post #AV47amAJJqiEyTAUOu by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:01:26Z
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@lauren Well, in my experience: all governments fall. Some sooner than later. The USA is in a Roman decline stage from my vantage.Cuneiform, outlived Sumeria.Hieroglyphs outlived Egypt.Latin persists despite the fall of Rome.I think code will be much the same.The Great Firewall of China? Was supplied by Cisco last I checked. DNS: open source.So uhhh, you think open source doesn't help? I think you're off your rocker if so.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV47jQMZkT0Nxj1qvw by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:03:03Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Again, for 99% of people the open source tools, etc. don't matter. Techies can take care of themselves, but most people aren't techies. I realize there are many techies who don't give a damn about most nontechies -- Mastodon seems to attract them. You keep bringing up stuff from decades ago. News alert: it's 2023 now. Fascism on the rise. Both parties calling for tight Internet controls. Not 2000 any more.
(DIR) Post #AV47pQS6KWSdyaTWC0 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:04:09Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers China has a very effective technique for dealing with people using open source encryption tools or VPNs. They get arrested at random, and vanish. Think it couldn't happen here? Think again.
(DIR) Post #AV47uvYy5XZPudJJjs by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:05:08Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers And by the way, I've been working on the Internet since before there was an Internet (ARPANET site 1 at UCLA), and on Open Source long, long, long before the term was coined.
(DIR) Post #AV485C5ZV5YA3vSKrA by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:06:55Z
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@lauren And I was personal friends with Doug Engelbart.Do you always write others with this much vitriol?It seems awfully rude.We would not even be communicating right now in this modality without:TCP (BSD)DNS (ISC)ActivityPub (multiple open source implementations).Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, IOS, Android: all downstream of open source projects.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV486tHwN4piKh3CDI by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:07:15Z
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@lauren I have been incarcerated.I have been to China.Stop putting words into my mouth.Stop spreading FUD.@alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers
(DIR) Post #AV488X2Y3p7xuUdLNo by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:07:35Z
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@lauren this is just outright condescending.
(DIR) Post #AV48AD893VOojy3HXs by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:07:50Z
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@byterhymer @alexwinter @mekkaokereke @rysiek @tchambers Thanks for the conversation. Good bye.
(DIR) Post #AV48GEF7pdc3vdBci8 by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:08:54Z
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@lauren From my vantage:all governments fall.Cuneiform: outlasted Sumeria.Hieroglyphs: outlasted Egypt.Latin: outlasted the Roman empire.I am pretty confident that code will be similar.I have NEVER had success as an individual with any governance structure. What is going to make a difference for me now that never worked in the past?
(DIR) Post #AV48KJ4ZogVG4BCGtU by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:09:43Z
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@lauren You aren't welcome.Your tone was excruciating and uncalled for with me.
(DIR) Post #AV48QAySq7tcgd8Wu0 by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:10:47Z
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@lauren ARPANet site 1 at UCLA, was still after Engelbart's group at SRI.Also, after SAGE.I think you think too highly of yourself and are resting on your laurels and it looks disgusting from here.
(DIR) Post #AV48Uy2eLkiU1cNZA0 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:11:40Z
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@byterhymer I do understand your point of view. But in a political and regulatory context today, I personally consider your rather optimistic view of these specific issues to be problematic. Time will tell which of us is correct.
(DIR) Post #AV48dfDxgN1sGmoi7k by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:13:13Z
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@byterhymer I don't mention anything about UCLA, et al. in my bio here. I brought it up because you seemed to be preaching to me as if I was a 20 year old who had no idea what you were talking about. Other than that, history is the dead past.
(DIR) Post #AV48fTbDsGBUnMYrvk by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:13:36Z
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@lauren LOL, you think I am an OPTIMIST?*sigh* you don't follow me, & after this I have an incentive to stay t.f. away from anything that you write ever again.I sleep in a car.Thousands in debt.I have not spoken with my own son in over a decade.I still actively contribute to libre/free open source software months if not years ahead of commercial downstream projects.It's been like that for MOST of my existence in this hellish world full of people with too much power & $ punching down.
(DIR) Post #AV48h7wLNFgaCPEB0q by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:11:33Z
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@lauren Change your diet.No more Big Macs.No more Coca colas.Maybe you'll stop caring so much about failed governments and start treating life on Earth with more compassion and respect.
(DIR) Post #AV48hAwSDIYZVcIo6K by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:13:44Z
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@byterhymer I actually virtually never eat them anymore. But they had their moment.
(DIR) Post #AV48nl7CdPa5R6T9V2 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:15:01Z
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@byterhymer One question: Were you at PARC?
(DIR) Post #AV490X4QAFwrdpG77Y by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:17:17Z
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@lauren "I don't mention anything about UCLA"Sure seems to contradict:"And by the way, I've been working on the Internet since before there was an Internet (ARPANET site 1 at UCLA), and on Open Source long, long, long before the term was coined." (https://mastodon.social/@lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/110268796785422058)JFC, writing with you is exasperating.Do you realize what this looks like to anyone else?
(DIR) Post #AV4964lsIDVnbvE9yL by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:18:15Z
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@lauren I was born in Menlo Park.*sigh* My family's church, TO THIS FRIGGIN DAY "news flash: it's 2023!" (so rude! why do you write like that?) shares a parking lot with SRI.SRI had a cross licensing agreement with PARC and SAIL.
(DIR) Post #AV49DZcjyvV5KFWvnE by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:19:42Z
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@byterhymer I wrote that to you, for the reason I noted. What I said is that I don't mention any of that stuff in my Mastodon bio, which is purposely sparse. I'll let anyone else watching note their opinions as they see fit. But I do have to say good night for now, which I assume won't displease you.
(DIR) Post #AV49FHBnUYvojNjuVt by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:19:52Z
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@lauren You absolutely do not understand my point of view whatsoever.That you would write as much, seems terribly presumptuous to me.Moreover, I am not your teacher and I don't want to share my life story with you, especially given how you are treating me.Consider my take on libre/free open source fatalistic, post apocalyptic and you'll get closer to my lived experience.
(DIR) Post #AV49GxJsL1BjgYJpXk by byterhymer@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T04:20:11Z
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@lauren Yes, Please. LEAVE ME ALONE FOREVER.Horrid person.
(DIR) Post #AV49U2zOZNHZ2AywM4 by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:22:42Z
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@byterhymer I mentioned 2023 because you kept bringing up stuff from 20 years ago. It's interesting, but I don't think very relevant today, in a world where our democracy such as it is was almost destroyed on jan 6. I love history, but I think it only gets us so far in terms of solving today's problems. And I think I remember that church from my times visiting SRI many years ago. SAIL was one of favorite places on the planet. I burned a lot of time on those III displays.
(DIR) Post #AV4AfudRYV4wYNw50C by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-04-27T03:38:19Z
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@mekkaokereke @lauren @rysiek If admins in BlueSky can act like admins on Mastodon, I'd feel assured that they were on the better track, banning users and removing content on their own servers, and the equivalent of "#fediblocking" or "blueskyblocking" remote individuals, remote servers, etc, from their own servers.RIght now worried all they can do is label and hope.Will keep digging.
(DIR) Post #AV4AfvPIgZMMwoKIb2 by mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io
2023-04-27T04:26:34Z
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@tchambers @lauren @rysiek It looks like the plan is that admins can effectively "defederate."https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/3-2-2023-bluesky-beta-appAnd glancing at the repo, it looks like even if they didn't plan for this, a fork could make those changes here:https://github.com/bluesky-social/indigoI peeked at the api and the indexer. It looks like you could make instances that you don't like, invisible to you and your users. Or require that content go through your moderator plugin first. Etc.
(DIR) Post #AV4Afvt4trBARAG50i by lauren@mastodon.laurenweinstein.org
2023-04-27T04:36:00Z
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@mekkaokereke @tchambers @rysiek Having a UI with an explicit option for showing torture and self-harm posts seems like a real problem going forward.
(DIR) Post #AV4Gsd0sz4GtOELb1s by MikeyMcFilms@mastodon.social
2023-04-27T05:45:31Z
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@lauren For me the biggest problem is I am not a tech guy and most invites have gone out to tech folks. It’s like going to Spain and having failed 10th grade Spanish (which I did)
(DIR) Post #AV4i36qfbrKda2n7jc by oblomov@sociale.network
2023-04-27T10:49:55Z
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@lauren @mekkaokereke @tchambers @rysiek It's still unclear to me who sets those tags and whether this mechanism can be abused to censor content “uncomfortable to power”. Let's say that some of the large-ish instances start blocking specific content tags (e.g. racism or self-harm) altogether. Could this be used by bot networks to tag unrelated content this way to prevent it from federating?
(DIR) Post #AV4kOJ3hbiaTRI7dq4 by axx@mstdn.fr
2023-04-27T11:16:08Z
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@lauren @mekkaokereke @tchambers @rysiek That screenshot is under text that they says they are debugging it. I understand that to mean: it's not finished and subject to change. Also, a lot of people seem to forget legitimate reasons for wanting to see all the bad stuff: research, journalism, etc.
(DIR) Post #AV5FPfWCgYSbxuaD2G by Cloudguy@sackheads.social
2023-04-27T17:02:28Z
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@lauren @rysiek @tchambers especially if they Illinois Nazis