Post AV2v64t6GaRHSJknTs by computersandblues@post.lurk.org
(DIR) More posts by computersandblues@post.lurk.org
(DIR) Post #AV2L3YXHywwsBo3AJM by malteengeler@legal.social
2023-04-26T07:23:04Z
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My feed is currently debating the danger of Mastodon "being sold" (= the Mastodon gGmbh being commercialised). Two thoughts:1. Who would blame the owner(s)? They need to eat, sleep, live and would probably prefer an economic situation as stable as possible.What I am saying: Don't blame individuals for no being "ethically superior". If Mastodon is commercialised, the issue is little with the people behind it but with a system that forces everything and everyone into competition for profit.
(DIR) Post #AV2LCECewq7JjcXHqi by malteengeler@legal.social
2023-04-26T07:24:36Z
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2. How would an ideal solution look like? What kind of institution should hold the fundamental rights/control over the essential parts of Mastodon?This question is obviously bigger than Mastodon. How do we democratically manage basic digital infrastructures and keep them "immune" to the logic of the market?
(DIR) Post #AV2LqCtvD16hHNppJY by stereo@freiburg.social
2023-04-26T07:31:48Z
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@malteengeler first of all, its good that the code is under AGPL3, so this makes it securely free software. there are also many patches of a lot of authors, so changing the licence seems not easily possible. so second its the question of "critical fork kraft" so who has the power to develop it further. and seeing so many different implementations available that the fediverse is made of, I dont fear a problem whoever owns the mastodon gGmbh.
(DIR) Post #AV2MuXu99y9xX8ZaC0 by malteengeler@legal.social
2023-04-26T07:43:55Z
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@stereo The worries seem to concentrate around the growing network power of mastodon.social, the official app and the associated rights to the name "Mastodon". A fediverse without both is obviously technically possible but would hurt the network on others levels a lot I'd say.
(DIR) Post #AV2O3wfKZHkotAglDk by chrishering33@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T07:56:47Z
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@malteengeler I look at it this way: a situation like this will be a first real stress test, if the concept of Mastodon / the Fediverse works in a real-life situation, where people want to earn money and make a living. Is the idea really as good as we all hope it to be or is it just a tech nerd pipe dream for social networking?
(DIR) Post #AV2OGKfv7wYepOs4lU by sl007@digitalcourage.social
2023-04-26T07:59:01Z
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@malteengeler @stereo Yes. Exactly._short_ story limit proofsI had calculated some responsibilities (admin, moderator, users) based on figures of the Free and Hanseatic City of Hamburg.Any fedi implementor should be Pub. Interest, US nonforprofit, foundation,gGmbH,gUg…Then we need to limit instances and define some for things like “public publishers” (NGOs, Pub Broadcasters, things like EU _Commission_):0,018% Bezirksversammlung [Direct municipal district assembly]0,007% Bürgerschaft [City assembly acting as Federal Land]0,003% other/higher interest= 0,028%Any instance should be limited to 46.000 users aka ‘citizen’ tokens.7 ‘instance assembly’ tokens3 ‘fedi plenum’ tokens4 ‘admin’ tokenswhich means 7 users have responsibility to report to 3 moderators which can vote for things like fedi-wide blocks and 4 admins have responsibility (they can be moderators too).Here the limit is the only proof to fedi.What would then be nice is to have a proof to not have any instance in same datacenter.
(DIR) Post #AV2VlBcvWA65QC88xM by malteengeler@legal.social
2023-04-26T09:22:42Z
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@chrishering33 "Does it make money" is no benchmark for societal value. I'd argue that the goal should be to keep any need for profit out of the basic decisions.
(DIR) Post #AV2amNoOCRQJGxsjVA by resieguen@legal.social
2023-04-26T10:19:13Z
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@malteengeler I think we can take a look at older developments here.1. FLOSS in general. It is already partly commercialised, which is not without problems, but necessary in this system.2. the e-mail and especially the power of Google in this area. Especially smaller e-mail providers are often blocked. Also, some websites don't accept them as a e-mail address. I'm worried much more about actors like Meta entering the Fediverse and breaking it somehow ("embrace, extend and extinguish").
(DIR) Post #AV2cR8J8qcxt0zGEoS by evemassacre@assemblag.es
2023-04-26T10:37:51Z
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@malteengeler That's what I've wondered about since I have first used Mastodon: It's idea of being a more open and equal and caring model is based more on belief than on people actually working on a system to ensure something beyond the benevolent leader model. Some instances try for it but if it's all based on an infrastructure that's down to one guy's goodwill I'm not sure we can say Mastodon is any more safe, stable and democratic than the other platforms.
(DIR) Post #AV2cc4G4FDMTdn2M9Q by letterus@kirche.social
2023-04-26T10:39:50Z
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@malteengeler I think the current discussion mainly is FUD. Eugen has worked years earning almost nothing. If this gets better now it‘s good for all of us. And he has always confirmed he does not want to sell out nor want to make great profits. That‘s why it is a gGmbH. The small g is quite important I think.If Mastodon gets bigger we still could claim we would like to have a public foundation conserving the public interest into this software.
(DIR) Post #AV2dIxEaEd6cJBnDV2 by chrishering33@mastodon.social
2023-04-26T10:47:37Z
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@malteengeler true that! But from the perspective of the current owners of the gGmbH, a questions such as that (or similar) eventually comes up and the way it is handled will show a lot about the concept as a whole, I believe. But as you said, can't blame them for an economic decision either
(DIR) Post #AV2v64t6GaRHSJknTs by computersandblues@post.lurk.org
2023-04-26T14:06:55Z
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@malteengeler i have heard the idea of "user unions" being pitched a couple of times. i'm not 100% sure what this would look like, but i think including groups with other interests in the decision making process is crucial.see also https://resonate.coop/ that try to do this for a cooperative music streaming service (disclaimer: not affiliated and i have no idea how well this works).
(DIR) Post #AVDItjvYiB1lSD9X96 by vatolin@social.tchncs.de
2023-05-01T14:20:44Z
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@malteengeler My 2 Cents: First Cent: They could make the source code a foundation (Stiftung). Second Cent: They could make the community a cooperative (Genossenschaft).