Post ATeMgbJyY00a689Agq by Xantulon@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Xantulon@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #ATeBcAvLeP5dZfJZlw by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T17:47:39Z
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As @mistercharlie writes, Meta's potential ActivityPub-compatible social network may be a threat to the Fediverse. Many people are suggesting an automatic server block on Meta-run instance(s).I disagree.I know I'm in the minority here, but hear me out. First, we need to understand what we're dealing with. What exactly is Meta building? We don't know. We also need to understand who would use that service and why. Migration tools? Important too!https://www.lifewire.com/how-metas-new-project-p92-could-deliver-the-killing-blow-to-twitter-7255582@fediversenews
(DIR) Post #ATeBcBhCmTN3y5hnMm by FeralRobots@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T17:52:01Z
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@atomicpoet Blocking Meta only works if the blocking sites can outweigh Meta, which they will not do in the foreseeable future. (It's not a given it would work even then.)On the other hand openly interoperating with Meta could undermine the value, strength, & perceived validity of Meta's garden-walls.@mistercharlie @fediversenews
(DIR) Post #ATeJ5YNiDN30P4XO4G by thomasottio@me.dm
2023-03-15T18:31:03Z
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@atomicpoet @mistercharlie @fediversenews Cutting off Meta without even giving their fediverse "whatever" a chance is kinda against the decentralization ethos, is it not?
(DIR) Post #ATeJ5Z61YcUccVGm8W by konstantin@m.iamkonstantin.eu
2023-03-15T18:33:34.581268Z
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@thomasottio @atomicpoet @mistercharlie @fediversenews Meta has had almost two decades of chances.
(DIR) Post #ATeJ5ZrWi0USzpUiB6 by thomasottio@me.dm
2023-03-15T18:36:59Z
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@konstantin @mistercharlie @atomicpoet @fediversenews I'm no friend of Meta, believe me, but here we are in the #fediverse talking about how decentralization this and decentralization that, and then the guy we don't like shows up and we take our ball and run home crying. I think all are welcome on the #fediverse if they're good netizens. If they start spewing hatred, etc then blocking is a good thing.
(DIR) Post #ATeJ5aLetyaqVHam92 by konstantin@m.iamkonstantin.eu
2023-03-15T18:43:27.158949Z
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@thomasottio @mistercharlie @atomicpoet @fediversenews Facebook/Meta is currently running a server. Facebook itself. If they’re unwilling to cleanup their server even before joining the #fediverse, how can you possibly give them the benefit of the doubt? All kinds of crazy is currently festering on their “platform”, why would anyone federate with that?
(DIR) Post #ATeLr9puyY7K5QYday by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T18:45:58Z
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@konstantin @mistercharlie @thomasottio @fediversenews Again, I don’t think Facebook is joining the Fediverse. A Meta-owned initiative called P92 is attempting Mastodon compatibility via ActivityPub. How this will work, I don’t know. But whoever uses it needs to migrate off of it.
(DIR) Post #ATeLrAdC1LX4YFbzOq by MrLee@aus.social
2023-03-15T19:18:32Z
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@atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @thomasottio @fediversenews Facebook wrote this in its original manifesto (little red book) It's always looking out for the competition. Even if it doesn't know what it will do with it.
(DIR) Post #ATeLx0pRNYQJt47skS by zleap@qoto.org
2023-03-15T19:48:06Z
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@MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @thomasottio @fediversenews hmm, wasn't the original 'little red book' the comunist manifes
(DIR) Post #ATeMgWibezjvp4dGt6 by Xantulon@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T18:54:40Z
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@atomicpoet nopehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
(DIR) Post #ATeMgXWwdq0QLCBTLk by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:09:14Z
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@Xantulon ActivityPub is the frog. You can’t prevent Meta from hopping on. You can cut off the scorpion’s tail, though.
(DIR) Post #ATeMgY8sMoLaEpvlTM by Xantulon@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:14:08Z
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@atomicpoet no reason to make it easy for the meta scorpion to hop on though
(DIR) Post #ATeMgYrXgk4mTMpR5s by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:18:16Z
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@Xantulon But it is easy. And more to the point, Meta already has the network effect advantage. Blocking them doesn’t get rid of their network effect advantage. Now the people using Meta must leave Meta’s services. So how to accomplish that?The most important thing is to be VISIBLE to people who use Meta, and offer them a migration path.
(DIR) Post #ATeMgZbGwieilCDxNA by Xantulon@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:25:33Z
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@atomicpoet unless switching from Meta properties to fediverse servers becomes a LOT easier, like click this button easy, I don't think fediverse visibility is going to matter to most Meta users. That's how Facebook beat MySpace, you could migrate your MySpace profile to Facebook easily, and once there, you were stuck. This will only be important for people willing to start completely over again unless there's an "import downloaded profile" button (simplified for post character limit)
(DIR) Post #ATeMgaY7Pvj9hhkx60 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:33:36Z
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@Xantulon Now you catch what I’m saying 🙂It is critical to build migration tools. And key to migration is making Meta users aware of what exists outside Meta—and building a compelling case for why they should leave. But first we must understand what P92 is, how it works, and how it will interact with the rest of the Fediverse.
(DIR) Post #ATeMgbJyY00a689Agq by Xantulon@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:40:19Z
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@atomicpoet P92 is the scorpion. We know what it is, or should, we may not know whether the threat is the claws or the tail or something else, but IMO it doesn't matter.I've been trying to onboard people to the fedi for years, I have first hand experience with UX issues, that's not my argument
(DIR) Post #ATeMgcFP6TwgyF12Ce by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-03-15T19:45:02Z
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@Xantulon Okay, what is P92? All I know is that it’s a text-based Twitter competitor that aims for Mastodon compatibility and ActivityPub integration. That’s it. Will it talk to Pixelfed? What about Friendica?Will it be open source?Will it add additional features out of the gate?I don’t know.
(DIR) Post #ATejt3AN8xtmsXYnZ2 by ngaylinn@tech.lgbt
2023-03-15T21:21:31Z
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@MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @thomasottio @fediversenews I think the takeaway from that is Meta cares more about "winning" than it does about products. And for them, "winning" means getting more user data and ad views.This is actually pretty suggestive of what sort of Fediverse product they're likely to build. Their priority will be to recapture the data / content streams of as many fleeing users as possible. That's a serious risk, but one that might apply to any Mastodon instance, not just Meta's.In theory they could try to make a _better_ alternative to Mastodon, to out-compete it and build another walled garden. But then the actual "federated" parts of the system would just be a nuisance to them, not a feature. They might neglect or intentionally break those integrations.If folks are afraid to let Meta in, maybe we should think about the specific actions we're afraid they might take, and whether policies or technical constraints could be used to prevent / mitigate that harm?
(DIR) Post #ATejt3u6OwTjAMxJqK by MrLee@aus.social
2023-03-15T21:39:12Z
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@ngaylinn @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @thomasottio @fediversenews I'm tempted to say, "we need to look at everything Facebook is doing that is bad" and work backwards from there.But then the list is so long!Ultimately, it's a mismatch.Facebook has always put itself first, whereas Fediverse is about putting users first.It's OK to make a living from a Fediverse Project, but I hope it remains incompatible with the needs of corporations.
(DIR) Post #ATejt4adqmVRIIrI9I by thomasottio@me.dm
2023-03-15T21:43:04Z
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@MrLee @ngaylinn @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @fediversenewsOf course, the nature of the #fediverse is very different than from a corporation's mandate to maximize shareholder wealth.There's no doubt that FB wants to pull in as much data from Twitter refugees as it can, then silo them up on its server.I'm unsure how they'll get people to sign up for it. Like you,I don't know what they plan to accomplis with an Activitypub protocol?
(DIR) Post #ATejt57FtWasvS7Kz2 by ngaylinn@tech.lgbt
2023-03-15T21:47:51Z
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@thomasottio @MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @fediversenews Maybe they only want to use the protocol so that they can present themselves as a competitor in the same product space? Like "we know some of our users prefer X, so we're launching a new X, with all the best parts of Facebook built in (but none of the scary parts you don't like, we promise! 🤞)"
(DIR) Post #ATejt5h3kPEYiUrvn6 by thomasottio@me.dm
2023-03-15T21:49:41Z
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@ngaylinn @MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @fediversenews Yea, maybe. Who knows? They're laying off more people so maybe this project won't turn out.
(DIR) Post #ATejt6HDZy9oWdmo9Q by ngaylinn@tech.lgbt
2023-03-15T22:55:57Z
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@thomasottio @MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @fediversenews I'd be shocked if this was a high priority for them, honestly. It doesn't make sense.
(DIR) Post #ATejt6rNPX54KmhgVk by ngaylinn@tech.lgbt
2023-03-15T23:24:49Z
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@thomasottio @MrLee @atomicpoet @konstantin @mistercharlie @fediversenews Another thought on what Meta might be doing: maybe they are trying to pull Fediverse content into Facebook. Their users could follow and interact with Mastodon accounts without having to switch! Of course, the real benefit to Meta would be gaining access to the federated stream, so they could build models of Fediverse content and users to integrate into their advertising products.