Post AT7HsPtMNK0VnCXPgO by alexhall@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by alexhall@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AT7GfZVrC4CTudr7r6 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:43:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
How likely do you think it is the Associated Press Stylebook editors will say it is fine to use neopronouns (such as "ze" and "zir") in news stories within the next five years?#grammar #pronouns #AmEditing #AmWriting #journalism
(DIR) Post #AT7GrE0IzNYWg9edYO by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:45:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm writing about neopronouns today, and I'm curious what people think the future holds for them.
(DIR) Post #AT7H7VTbnHWfVE7moS by GramrgednAngel@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:48:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I've been seeing them in social media spaces for 25+ years, and I don't see mainstream acceptance increasing from where I sit. I wish that were different.
(DIR) Post #AT7H8YgHMjHbjLYK5Q by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:48:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Incidentalnacho I've seen "Mx," but I don't know if there's a consensus.
(DIR) Post #AT7HNjXzFOm9m7uUIy by SnerkRabbledauber@mas.to
2023-02-27T20:51:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I think English needs gender neutral pronouns. The problem will be deciding on what ones to use.I predict that a motion picture or video series that uses them will become popular and whatever ones that uses, will become the norm.
(DIR) Post #AT7HUCrLB7WYQH36e0 by SnerkRabbledauber@mas.to
2023-02-27T20:52:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl Actually more a question of how adaptable AP is.
(DIR) Post #AT7HZo3OJmLRE8M86S by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:53:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SnerkRabbledauber Excellent prediction. I've become much more comfortable with them after reading novels that use them.
(DIR) Post #AT7HmLI8ZAotmsENSi by drahardja@sfba.social
2023-02-27T20:55:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I think it’s far more likely for them to adopt the singular “they” than use a neopronoun.However, the use of “Mx.” as a gender-neutral honorific is quite likely be widely adopted.
(DIR) Post #AT7HsPtMNK0VnCXPgO by alexhall@mastodon.social
2023-02-27T20:56:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I don't understand why they aren't a thing. Using "they" and "their" makes for awkward sentences, but English has a gender-neutral alternative just waitint to be used. I know that shoving a plural pronoun into a singular pronoun-shaped opening is common, but I don't get why. Just adopt the singular, gender-neutral alternative already! Unsure of someone's gender? Solved. Does someone not identify with a gender? Solved. Differentiating between one person and a group? Solved.
(DIR) Post #AT7Hulc2aau7jlYdxQ by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T20:57:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@GramrgednAngel I feel like there's a chance, but my husband says I've just read too much sci-fi. Not that he's anti-sci-fi. He loves it too! It's just that he thinks sci-fi—along with all the time I spend with language people–has skewed my perception of what mainstream people think about neopronouns.
(DIR) Post #AT7ITUV4ClbInbqyUy by pattacakek@mastodon.au
2023-02-27T21:03:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl There’s something about the Z sound that, for me, makes it difficult for the sentence to flow normally. If you ask a question about someone, and you say, “is ze going with you?” If I don’t leave a breath between, is and ze, it comes out sounding like he. I have a teenage trans grandson who has many trans and non-binary friends; asking their pronouns has become normalised. Is, ze/zir widely chosen by people? I haven’t encountered it.
(DIR) Post #AT7IZZ2OFPfWbqKtdo by pentney@sfba.social
2023-02-27T21:04:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl nah, they'll take the easier route and start using "they" before they start dipping their toe into those waters
(DIR) Post #AT7JJHO0CurzBYFAmm by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T21:12:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pattacakek Interesting. I can see how "is ze" could end up sounding like "is e" too, which doesn't seem bad.It reminds me of how "iced tea" often sounds like "ice tea."
(DIR) Post #AT7JQcbth9Kz2PFC76 by jaystephens@mastodon.social
2023-02-27T21:14:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I see what you did there. :)Roses are redViolets are blueSingular they's olderThan singular you
(DIR) Post #AT7JSCjkrVqvN9fqy0 by GramrgednAngel@zirk.us
2023-02-27T21:14:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl That's why I answered as I did. The growing prevalence in SFF isn't mirrored in the mainstream. And that's disappointing to me. (My time online has encompassed a lot of SFF fans and pros, a lot of pagan folk of various types, and a large number of queer people. Those groups skew differently from many others.)
(DIR) Post #AT7JyBAYE6xNmDSEu8 by pattacakek@mastodon.au
2023-02-27T21:20:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl That’s true, but I want to avoid that crestfallen look on a trans kid’s face if they think you’ve misgendered them.
(DIR) Post #AT7Kuf0JSXGz6UYGMS by cwwilkie@zirk.us
2023-02-27T21:30:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl Oof. Five years? AP? Hmm.
(DIR) Post #AT7Lve9CEJf4grjzrE by mlanger@mastodon.world
2023-02-27T21:42:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I think it’ll take pretty close to 5 years.I’m still struggling with plural pronouns used as singular ones. I don’t want to be referred to as ”they” or ”them” or my stuff referred to as “theirs.” And, frankly, I don’t give a crap if it’s “acceptable.” If other people can have pronoun preferences, why can’t I?I am one person and proud of it.
(DIR) Post #AT7Nx71MZ0XcREu58y by VedaDalsette@mstdn.social
2023-02-27T22:05:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I've always preferred pe and per (for person).
(DIR) Post #AT7VJE5Ng1dsOpH612 by madam_atom@mindly.social
2023-02-27T22:54:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexhall @grammargirl Sorry, I'm not following you. What is the extant singular, gender-neutral, third-person English pronoun for referring to a human?
(DIR) Post #AT7VJEijJj7MMrgWLg by alexhall@mastodon.social
2023-02-27T23:09:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@madam_atom @grammargirl I'm not at all well-informed, so I suggest researching this. From what I understand, "ze" is the gender-neutral pronoun that goes where "he" and "she" are used.
(DIR) Post #AT7VJFOCpWIKRV5dzs by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T23:27:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alexhall @madam_atom There's no one answer. These are the results from two different online polls I've done.
(DIR) Post #AT7VtsLvRWrJi4UOEi by madam_atom@mindly.social
2023-02-27T23:34:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl @alexhall Okay, I think I misunderstood--I interpreted Alex as saying that there was an old and established singular option we could sub in instead of the old and established plural option. I've seen several sets of neopronouns, but they're all, well, neo. :) Thank you both!
(DIR) Post #AT7XI2aV8mdoMEOSbw by killick@dmv.community
2023-02-27T23:45:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@madam_atom @grammargirl @alexhall ,I remember when Ms. was new. I adapted. I can adapt to a new pronoun. What I don't like is the way people are trying to force singluar They into places it doesn't currently go. "Someone forgot their umbrella" is fine if you don't know who it was. "Jo put their umbrella under their seat" makes me look around for someone else who may have let Jo move the umbrella. Using they in this case introduces ambiguity. As with Ms., I would prefer to learn a new pronoun than confuse myself with singular they. I voted "maybe?" but I hope so.
(DIR) Post #AT7XI3HOZIx6VGSiTA by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-27T23:49:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@killick @madam_atom @alexhall Linguists are studying how people's brains react to those two different uses. https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/articles/old-they-new-they-language-change-in-action/
(DIR) Post #AT7i50ZARbt5oql2qO by albnelson@lor.sh
2023-02-28T01:50:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I think a preliminary question is whether they will appear in speech frequently enough that they need to show up in direct quotes, then whether those direct quotes will be edited with brackets or not. If it happened now I would prob include a brief explainer along with the quote.
(DIR) Post #AT7oELXuPY8bDZ0Nqy by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-02-28T02:59:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl @GramrgednAngel I've worked with the public all my adult life, including in local government services, and IT departments with access to staff records, and I've *never* come across neopronouns "in the wild". I've only ever seen them in online spaces.I would think they would need to be in more general use before a media outlet would adopt them. Meanwhile it'll be "James, who uses the pronouns [insert here]..."
(DIR) Post #AT7pXvIXoFDrYciX8C by GramrgednAngel@zirk.us
2023-02-28T03:14:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@BarrenPlanet @grammargirl I concur. It's the same as words getting into a dictionary. Without printed publications to cite, it won't happen.
(DIR) Post #AT7vQgEa1AUMXFnCCW by PalmSpringsLinguist@zirk.us
2023-02-28T04:19:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl I predict that singular they will gain acceptance as people start to realize that it’s been with us all along. Both “you” and “they” already can be singular or plural. As a result, I predict neopronouns will fade away.My question is will phrases “they all” and “all of them” gain ground when context doesn’t make it clear whether “they” is being used as singular or plural the way we do with “you.”
(DIR) Post #AT8HSa2eD5sottWRxw by jjrscott@mastodon.social
2023-02-28T08:26:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl bit late to the party but I’m in the “no chance” camp on the basis I think pronouns themselves are on the way out.They/their has always been so much easier requiring zero effort to calculate. The only thing holding them back was social acceptance which seems to have finally arrived.
(DIR) Post #ATB1j9SVHaAhaMNN7A by Zumbador@mefi.social
2023-03-01T16:14:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grammargirl thanks for sharing this. Very useful.