Post AT2SrdYAEjJFZIefNA by stevenroose@x0f.org
(DIR) More posts by stevenroose@x0f.org
(DIR) Post #ASyBOcPotskpnZUPeC by FranckLeroy@mastodon.online
2023-02-23T10:36:01Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Cryptocurrency is a cancer that feeds on the desperation of youth and drives them into a gambling addiction. They think they are fighting against the "system", but they become suckers who fight each other in a giant decentralized casino manipulated by a handful of rich assholes: the new landlords.
(DIR) Post #ASysea4xePvLDMagrY by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-23T19:36:36Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@FranckLeroy @jr I agree this is what most of "crypto" is. But it is definitely not what #Bitcoin is. Not the idea, not how it began and I believe also not how it has become.I think most Bitcoin users hold Bitcoin more as a savings instrument, a little akin to holding a stock index fund or gold. While many ofc dream of wild returns, most are happy enough to not get robbed of the 10-20% inflation every year, not fuel the economic system we have today and not have to interact with banks as much.
(DIR) Post #ASytTPYgWey9M1jQA4 by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-23T19:45:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @FranckLeroy Bitcoin isn't actually a good investment, if you want to compensate inflation, lolIt's way to volatile...
(DIR) Post #ASz06UkzjNkGUoVdKa by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-23T21:00:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jr @FranckLeroy It works quite well on the long term. Which is where most fist like euros fall short.
(DIR) Post #ASz1XNSn3YiteFNPZg by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-23T21:16:11.133632Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Bitcoin is a really important technology because it creates the possibility for final settlement between financial institutions, eliminating the need for a reserve currency system which has been the cause of endless war and tyranny.Barring a world wide extinction level event, Bitcoin WILL win, and you will win from it whether you hold any or not.
(DIR) Post #ASz2Ua2pvGCrkoT1Hc by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-23T21:26:52.834276Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
> no country is going to give up control of their currencyYou're correct but you're missing the point. This is not about replacing Mexican pesos in Mexico, it's about replacing the dollars that the central bank of Mexico has to hold in order to defend the value of the peso in international markets.
(DIR) Post #ASzEyTCl7Ic8g57wgK by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-23T23:46:43.030513Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
> LiterallyCharlie Munger isn't spewing hatred over Bitcoin because it's "Literally never going to happen."Bitcoin has thrown the centillionaire class into a fucked Tragedy Of The Commons game.Right now they all live well from their political connections to the printing press, but the era of the printing press will not last forever. They know this, and you see Munger getting glassy eyed in interviews when he talks about inflation.Their ultimatum is simple: Whoever buys first will preserve their wealth into the post-dollar era, but the more they buy, the sooner the collapse will come.So they are stuck in a fucked situation where they're all swearing to each other that they hate bitcoin and would never buy it while secretly they're all buying it behind each others backs.When you see BTCUSD going up, you're watching rats leaving the sinking ship.
(DIR) Post #ASzKuBcDAh98gwNBVg by SunMcNukes@xmrposter.club
2023-02-24T00:53:13.987479Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @FranckLeroy @jr yes, that's exactly Bitcoin: a Ponzi held hostage by a bunch of narcissistic crooks whose only goal is to pump their bags and get more fiat from it. Look:
(DIR) Post #ASzsfTuOGx4NWb2HNg by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-24T07:11:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @jr @FranckLeroy so you're saying people who have a lot of money can multiply that lot of money by investing it in bitcoin to work around inflation?great. I don't see how this could become a problem at all.
(DIR) Post #AT0hW8y1rErXdH2gtc by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-24T16:41:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@book @FranckLeroy @jr LOL tbh this sounds more like governments and central banks than it sounds like bitcoiners 😅 Constantly trying to convince the public that what they're doing makes sense even though everyone saw how they put billions in their friends' pockets and inflation is sky-high as a result.
(DIR) Post #AT0hxwJYUgrGUzMiA4 by raucao@kosmos.social
2023-02-23T23:23:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jr @stevenroose @FranckLeroy Bitcoin is literally the most inflation-resistant money the world has ever seen. Yes, currently its *fiat exchange rate* is volatile (but not even as volatile as some fiat currencies, see e.g. Turkey, Argentina, Lebanon, Nigeria, etc.). However, nobody can inflate the actual supply of it more than the rules permit.Monetary inflation is what causes first asset price inflation and then consumer price inflation. 1 BTC is *always* a 21 millionth of the overall supply.
(DIR) Post #AT0hxwkUsWPPqXyE9g by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-24T06:19:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raucao @stevenroose @FranckLeroy looks like you don't understand that much about money theory, what you describe is only one kind of inflation where, yes, bitcoin could more or less protect you from someone flooding the market with money (although it's still theoretically possible to do it, by hording a lot of bitcoin over time and dump them all at once at some point)
(DIR) Post #AT0hxxOCUuATpgXw2a by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-24T06:19:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raucao @stevenroose @FranckLeroy But my point is there are also other ways of inflation. The one you currently see in Europe for example: the real value of the money decreases because some very important ressources in the chain of production (like energy for example) become rare and thereby their price increases.
(DIR) Post #AT0hxy4Ny3ubwWHcnI by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-24T06:19:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raucao @stevenroose @FranckLeroy If the prices increases all over the whole economy, you effectively have inflation again, called cost-push inflation and there is not way Bitcoin protecting you from this!
(DIR) Post #AT0hxyd7sthXgGXMwa by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-24T16:46:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jr @raucao @FranckLeroy These are effects that are money-unrelated. Sure market conditions can cause price inflation. But these effects are irrelevant when we're discussing different forms of money or currency. Truth is that the high price inflation we have today is following insane monetary inflation the last few years. The government can point at wars and oil all they want, but we have like 2x as much money going around suddenly, what do you expect prices to do?
(DIR) Post #AT0lUhvnI7LJJCZGHQ by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-24T17:25:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @raucao @FranckLeroy price inflation effects are not irrelevant if we discuss money systems, because with approaches like the Euro there is at least a way (I'm not saying it's used in a good way currently) to control the inflation a bit (for example by printing more money or removing money from the market, depending on the situation). Systems like Bitcoin do not have such control...
(DIR) Post #AT0sEUQuPOkMUUKqsS by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-24T18:41:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Riedler @jr @FranckLeroy I think you're guilty of twisting my words.Anyone can save in #Bitcoin, not just the rich. And if you save in Bitcoin as your money, you don't "multiply" your money, you might have a purchasing power that is increasing in fiat money terms. Naturally with the same amount of money, your purchasing power should increase as technology makes production cheaper. That is what will happen when holding bitcoin in the long term: stuff will become cheaper.
(DIR) Post #AT0sab78FWYFaAcutU by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-24T18:45:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jr @raucao @FranckLeroy Sure, but IMO it is totally pretentious for a handful of dudes to think they have the right to "help people have more stable prices" and totally immoral for a system of structural violence to force this money upon the populace.Besides moral objections, positions with such incredible power (literally creating money) inevitable corrupt and that is exactly what we are witnessing all over the place. Not just poor countries, but Europe and the US too. It's insustainable.
(DIR) Post #AT0swa5UkK72lnLM4e by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-24T18:49:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @jr @FranckLeroy I'm not twisting your words, I'm reinterpreting them. And anyone who can invest a meaningful amount of their income is rich.I don't understand at all how you think stuff will become cheaper just because people are holding their wealth in bitcoin. When stuff gets expensive, it's relative to people's purchasing power. Nobody cares about inflation if their salaries also inflate. Bitcoin can't change this dynamic.
(DIR) Post #AT11YLzOPZ6hgL0mA4 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-24T20:25:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Riedler @jr @FranckLeroy "nobody cares about inflation if their salaries also inflate".. Have you ever heard about saving at all??The people that are retired now and need to pay thousands or euros a month for care in Europe very much care about the fact that their top-notch salaries of 30 years ago now compare barely with minimum wage.I said that technology reduces cost of production. The main reason prices have gone up the last 50 years is monetary inflation. It's totally artificial.
(DIR) Post #AT183WH2p3PeHVVozQ by FranckLeroy@mastodon.online
2023-02-24T21:38:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @Riedler @jr What are you talking about ? We have socialized pension and Universal health Care in Europe. Most of eldery from the middle class have put their savings into housings and are more wealthy, on average than the working population.
(DIR) Post #AT1ciav7RvNpBol7M8 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-25T03:22:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@FranckLeroy @Riedler @jr Sure, and what about those thst haven't? State pensions nowadays are lower than minimum wage in many places. I know people in Portugal that worked all their life and are getting a 200 euros a month pension. Many have a house to live in at least, but there are plenty that don't. 30 years ago you could live easily with an equivalent value of 200 euros a month, nowadays obviously not.
(DIR) Post #AT1csU5bhX0StrNeJE by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-25T03:24:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FranckLeroy @Riedler @jr Sure, those that did buy real estate, especially those thst bought more than one, are very well off, they are living off the insanely inflated housing prices and just renting out. But please don't argue that that is a sustainable model, for every elderly person to require another property to pay their bills.Also, health case might be free in Portugal, but that is not the case for elderly care. If you need to be cared for on a daily basis, you're in your own.
(DIR) Post #AT2CwNd3GBJAN4BGue by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-25T10:08:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @FranckLeroy @jr elderly will always rely on other people. if it's through pension or through amassed wealth doesn't matter. If the pension fails, that's a failure of the state, and I think how good your pension is will just be one of many problems.And again, only rich people can invest. If you rely on bitcoin to provide your elderly care, poor people will just die at 70 and that's it.
(DIR) Post #AT2L0FpN0S48y2Iisi by FranckLeroy@mastodon.online
2023-02-25T11:38:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @Riedler @jr You say "Portugal" is your bio. Are you Portuguese ?
(DIR) Post #AT2Srd3K5Odi1eE2Ii by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-25T10:12:40Z
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@stevenroose @FranckLeroy @jr additionally, the job of a state-funded pension is to take your money, invest it so it doesn't lay stagnant, and give you the equivalent money, either adjusted for inflation, or as a percentage of overall wealth of the state, after you retire.Investing your money into actual progress is always better than saving it, assuming you have a safety net. The safety net is the state.
(DIR) Post #AT2SrdYAEjJFZIefNA by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-25T13:06:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Riedler @FranckLeroy @jr This is all wishful thinking and clearly not true if your government is not Scandinavian. Even in Central Europe, pensions fail to keep up with inflation.You say "only the rich can invest" and that's exactly true. The poor save and saving is broken on purpose by Central-Bank-planned inflation. They break saving in purpose which hurts the poor more.But saving in another form or money like bitcoin or gold isn't investing. It's simply saving in a better instrument.
(DIR) Post #AT2TAYXh4wuRXWSLzc by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-02-25T13:09:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Riedler @FranckLeroy @jr And you say "investing is always better than saving", that depends. Investing, meaning stocks or other securities like state paper, always has a social implication. You're giving economic power to some organization, it's never neutral like holding a form or money.I for one believe stocks, i.e. capitalism, are immoral. When buying stocks, you're basically bribing the state to use their monopoly on violence to steal value from workers and give it to you, the "owner".
(DIR) Post #AT2TGczLSgRN4AHkIK by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-25T13:11:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @FranckLeroy @jr the poor don't save either, they live paycheck to paycheck because idiots like you are pushing bitcoin in an effort to get more value out of a system that doesn't have more value, taking it from the poor instead. Do you even realize that you're part of the top 10%? You have zero idea about poor people.investments are just savings without the money lying dormant, so you're right in that regard. Bitcoin wealth is still dormant wealth.
(DIR) Post #AT2U61RWIg2jg9yEXQ by Riedler@mas.to
2023-02-25T13:20:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @FranckLeroy @jr dormant money is bad. It's as simple as that. What you're investing in is important, but saving your money by letting it rot in a drawer is just very bad for everyone. It can cause hyperinflation in times of need, even without the amount of money increasing.stocks are immoral, but it's the system we got and bitcoin is way worse. We have to make the best of it.Besides, I was talking about investments by the state into housing and stuff.
(DIR) Post #AT2bOmXSdZ5mdTdqWu by jr@social.anoxinon.de
2023-02-25T14:42:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @Riedler @FranckLeroy one aspect that just came to my mind and is totally ignored by the discussion sofar: if all people start to invest into Bitcoin, as you dream, then Bitcoin will be one either extremely slow (way more than it is already today) or will waste all our (energy) ressources..