Post ASwhAR1tFEsCeGeoAC by amszmidt@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by amszmidt@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #ASwcAXktjqFjjnwRkG by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T17:22:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I did some research on the state of Common Lisp implementations. Here is the summary:https://www.n16f.net/blog/common-lisp-implementations-in-2023/
(DIR) Post #ASwdBe5jlZMddHmKLg by lispegistus@hachyderm.io
2023-02-22T17:33:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor Very sorry to hear about CCL, back when I first got started SBCL had a lot of issues on windows, especially with threads so CCL was the natural implementation to use outside of Linux.
(DIR) Post #ASwdVyVrY8vqlBgz0C by EMacAdie@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T17:37:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor It looks like CLISP developments is happening on Gitlab. I did not look too closely, so I have no idea when there will be a release. https://gitlab.com/gnu-clisp/clisp
(DIR) Post #ASwdyE1dT5lEyn1a7s by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T17:42:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@EMacAdie I ran gitstats on this repository to get a feel of what is happening. The answer is infortunately "not much".
(DIR) Post #ASwe3RzixUkNkgcd84 by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T17:43:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lispegistus Do not lose hope: it still exists, it still runs. And maybe I can convince a maintainer to let other people merge patches and make releases, who knows :)
(DIR) Post #ASweBLT36rl9pF6SEC by phenlix@mastodon.online
2023-02-22T17:45:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor CCL's compiler is no longer much faster. Compilation times of SBCL used to be 400% over CCL ten years ago, it's now down to maybe 10-20% more. For example, on my laptop IOlib compiles from scratch in 7.7s on CCL and 8.9s on SBCL, +15.4%.
(DIR) Post #ASwfcNTxpKNXqZz81Q by amszmidt@mastodon.social
2023-02-22T18:01:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor GNU CLISP is still actively maintained. The major reason to use it is that it doesn’t need another CL to bootstrap (like SBCL et Al do).
(DIR) Post #ASwgN7fASbHWOXVzpQ by amszmidt@mastodon.social
2023-02-22T18:03:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor that git stats doesn’t show much isn’t a very good indication of anything. CL hasn’t seen any changes either since 1993 … if it works, why fix it.
(DIR) Post #ASwgN8NpmX0id4PfRw by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T18:09:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amszmidt The reason why having regular activity is not about the software, it is about confidence: if there a bug, a problem of any kind, is there a chance to get the problem fixed and a new version released.
(DIR) Post #ASwhAR1tFEsCeGeoAC by amszmidt@mastodon.social
2023-02-22T18:16:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor But GNU CLISP does have that, Bruno is _very_ responsive.
(DIR) Post #ASwhARiQh4tumCYmTA by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T18:18:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amszmidt I am not criticizing the developer, nothing in my article is personal. But there has not been any release in 12 years. There is nothing wrong with having different needs: if Clisp works for you, then there is no problem.
(DIR) Post #ASx3WDpZCDa94kgf0C by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T22:28:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor Thank you for that interesting article. I think your description of the situation regarding the two proprietary providers is quite accurate. Obviously, both suffer from the fact that they can live too well from their regular locked-in customers and thus practically don't have to compete anymore. Which is a shame, because Lispworks in particular is a great overall package that many solo developers would benefit from. I imagine that Lispworks could boost its popularity and user base with affordable licenses for individual developers, who would then establish Lispworks within their employers.I would be ready to pay for a pro license if I could create cross-platform binaries with it. But paying for 3-4 platforms licenses for a single user is just too much.SBCL is an excellent implementation, so lets hope that it stays that way and the development will not loose its steem anytime soon.
(DIR) Post #ASx3Z13N9sQ2JfTd2W by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T22:29:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor Thank you for that interesting article. I think your description of the situation regarding the two proprietary providers is quite accurate. Obviously, both suffer from the fact that they can live too well from their regular locked-in customers and thus practically don't have to compete anymore. Which is a shame, because #Lispworks in particular is a great overall package that many solo developers would benefit from. I imagine that Lispworks could boost its popularity and user base with affordable licenses for individual developers, who would then establish Lispworks within their employers.I would be ready to pay for a pro license if I could create cross-platform binaries with it. But paying for 3-4 platforms licenses for a single user is just too much.SBCL is an excellent implementation, so lets hope that it stays that way and the development will not loose its steem anytime soon.
(DIR) Post #ASx5TiQXBQXF0XuXKK by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T22:50:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@louis Lispworks would be better off open sourcing a base edition while selling bothsupport contracts and an enterprise version with all the proprietary librariesnobody cares about out of bigcorp (e.g. CORBA, the Oracle client, etc.).The world has changed. Existing companies are not switching to Common Lisp.Ever. The new potential market is made of startups or R&D departments where acouple nerds decide to go with CL because they like it. And these people grewup with open source. They are not going to pay for a proprietary compiler formultiple good reasons.But it rare to see companies pulling this kind of major paradigm shift.Usually they simply wither and die. The saddest thing is that theirproprietary software usually dies with them.
(DIR) Post #ASx9jZTgciHvhcCXwG by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-22T23:38:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor I totally agree. A LispWorks base image would not only be interesting for many open source lipers, it would also help to make the compiler and the product better thanks to the free feedback. I think one could even do without the IDE and CAPI in the base image.Since it can be assumed that LispWorks has some industrial enterprise customers, one has to assume that they are contractually obligated to keep the source code secret for security reasons. No bank would be happy if others found out that the text fields in their e-banking payment forms are read by a Lisp reader. 😜
(DIR) Post #ASxtC8R4jxBaATyTtA by emacsomancer@emacs.ch
2023-02-23T08:08:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor perhaps of interest: https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
(DIR) Post #ASyFOpFzYVldRUFMMC by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-23T12:16:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@emacsomancer Incredible project indeed. I'm not sure about how I feel about all the strangely named components, but I hope they get to a stable version one day.
(DIR) Post #ASz23HcQK1iomv62Cm by scm@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-02-23T21:21:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@galdor thanks for this. I found it to be very informative.