Post AS4b3pcLD1CPTfajkO by john@sauropods.win
(DIR) More posts by john@sauropods.win
(DIR) Post #AS4b3pcLD1CPTfajkO by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T15:55:34Z
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As I thought, quote-tooting is being implemented by apps because so many people want it, it's so obvious UX wise, and so straightforward technologically, that it was inevitable (it's really just a link preview that recognises the link is to a Mastodon post and opens in-app).Mastodon needs to build in consent-based QTs fast, or it will be irrelevant pretty soon, and we'll just have a QT system that doesn't ask or notify you.#mastodon #qt #quotetoots
(DIR) Post #AS4bKZWCJn2wTChUHY by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T15:58:36Z
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The same thing will happen with search, mark my words.#mastodon #search
(DIR) Post #AS4cKQaNd458ij9TjU by lesswrongmorekind@masto.ai
2023-01-27T16:09:45Z
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@john Yes, and also: https://masto.ai/@sindarina@mastodon.lol/109758791073174371
(DIR) Post #AS4dMsYQiIsJzqyLTc by JuToast@dju.social
2023-01-27T16:21:24Z
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@john what will happen ?
(DIR) Post #AS4dNWu6h7yx8fQDom by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T16:21:28Z
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Just to clear how this is almost inevitable you only need to combine these two really obvious ideas:1: Links to Mastodon posts should open in your Mastodon app2: Links should have a preview so people have some idea what they're clicking on... and you've got quote-tooting, without even explicitly setting out to do it!#mastodon #quotetoots
(DIR) Post #AS4dPNQetRl0KdWpNo by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T16:21:57Z
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@JuToast Apps will implement fediverse-wide search.
(DIR) Post #AS4ddo5KaFUT3fQvtg by frandroid@kolektiva.social
2023-01-27T16:24:25Z
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@john The street finds its own uses for things
(DIR) Post #AS4ebrxzHULsTIdeTI by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-27T16:35:17Z
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@john I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. The people who will keep the festive alive are not those who need Twitter 2. Those are still there, complaining about it but making Elon rejoice
(DIR) Post #AS4exBFMnCAWLjvgSe by VieilOgre@mastodon.top
2023-01-27T16:39:10Z
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@john What you're describing, what is happening right now, is basically the worst solution: all the potential for harassment but without the capacity for the victim to know who's responsible and to defend themselves.So, yes, I guess you're right. An opt-out quote-boost would be better. But why would you suppose that the apps implementing this pseudoQT would respect the consent of users who decided to opt out?
(DIR) Post #AS4fb54x8zqWns5Ihs by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T16:46:24Z
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@VieilOgre Yes I think they would, they are not out to be dickheads about this. It falls out of normal good features as a by-product! Right now they are being asked to make a special case of Mastodon links to avoid it (either not opening them in-app, or not previewing them). This is a Mastodon culture and development screwup, as this outcome was obvious and could have been avoided (and still might be if done quickly).
(DIR) Post #AS4gENGtREpGWKPEWG by mike@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T16:53:26Z
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@john This is exactly how I feel about search.Every time someone tries to carefully and politely build a search facility that consonant with Mastodon culture, it gets shouted down by Concern Trolls.The only possible endgame is that someone careLESS and IMpolite goes right the heck ahead and builds a search facility anyway — and ignores the complaints, both legitimate and illegitimate.The window is closing fast for Mastodon to get a search facility that we can all approve of.
(DIR) Post #AS4gFAwkkOQOaLMr4K by mike@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T16:53:39Z
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@john Oh, I see you were ahead of me 🙂
(DIR) Post #AS4h9D520BEjQ1xWHg by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T17:03:44Z
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@mike Yeah. I actually quite like hashtags being the the only search index (this makes opting-in really obvious), but I think it not being fediverse-wide won't last. Hashtags might need some smartening though, for functional synonyms (palaeontology/palaeontology, dinosaur/dinosaurs).
(DIR) Post #AS4hMLezPffFnH2jLM by mike@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T17:06:08Z
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@john And, critically, DOIs can't be hashtagged. That's really going to hurt.
(DIR) Post #AS4i5MqrpUWqWL47qS by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T17:14:12Z
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@mike You know, I don't think I've ever searched for a DOI on a social network.
(DIR) Post #AS4jtBTAWS2VeWIawq by independentpen@mas.to
2023-01-27T17:34:28Z
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@john That's an interesting idea. I like it
(DIR) Post #AS4kEE95leO829wUKm by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T17:38:18Z
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@independentpen Consent-based QTing?
(DIR) Post #AS4kMBpgFeO3B0exf6 by independentpen@mas.to
2023-01-27T17:39:45Z
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@john Yeah. I think it's innovative in alignment with the values of the whole Mastodon project
(DIR) Post #AS4kSGRG2TrFCR8HR2 by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T17:40:50Z
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@independentpen I think so too, obviously. It's being considered Mastodon mainline.
(DIR) Post #AS4lRyg6Al4U4PV9kW by VieilOgre@mastodon.top
2023-01-27T17:51:54Z
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@john I hope you're right.
(DIR) Post #AS4mAT5IU1z17EVDvs by donnodubus@mas.to
2023-01-27T17:59:56Z
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@john @mike The concept of #hashtag #search is cool, but the main problem with it is most people around here don't even think to add them.Other platforms prompt the user to add hashtags, or at least make it a visible feature you wouldn't overlook.I think #Mastodon would have to do something like that in order to develop a hashtag culture like Tumblr has. Otherwise there will always be clamoring for text search.
(DIR) Post #AS4mw8CDRuKKEPSyTQ by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T18:08:38Z
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@aom You haven't engaged with my argument. You're now getting QTs whether you like it or not, with no permissions and no notifications.
(DIR) Post #AS4n5rJr3FjGmig5b6 by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T18:10:21Z
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@donnodubus @mike That’s done at the application level, so app makers would have to get the memo.
(DIR) Post #AS4nGqMYwnX90KBMrg by donnodubus@mas.to
2023-01-27T18:12:23Z
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@john @mike sure, but Mastodon has its own app. And it's the most popular one by quite a bit, I think.
(DIR) Post #AS4ozEXGXFK4fbv3Im by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T18:31:36Z
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@donnodubus @mike True that.
(DIR) Post #AS4rbu14xUV8EWQlQ8 by enriquericos@mastodon.art
2023-01-27T19:00:59Z
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@john I'm sure I misunderstood this but, if Mastodon implemented consent-based QT, wouldn't other apps still be able to implement their own QT whether we consent or not?Same thing for search: if we opt-out (by default) so only our tags can be searched but we can opt-in for all text to be game. What's stopping other apps from using all our texts anyway? Isn't our data already out in the open?I don't ask for a lengthy explanation, "you're wrong, you fool" is a valid answer and I'll thank you
(DIR) Post #AS4ruRIrwARmgQahAe by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T19:04:22Z
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@enriquericos yes, that’s the current situation. Not very satisfactory! If Mastodon implemented consent-based QTing, I think other applications might respect it, rather than just implementing it without any option for consent, which is what’s happening right now.
(DIR) Post #AS4tgsNYfpZ8VkRca8 by enriquericos@mastodon.art
2023-01-27T19:24:16Z
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@john So we have a situation where, even if Mastodon acts, people who don't respect Mastodon's culture could have an edge (offering much desired features) over those who do respect it. And we are hoping for the respectful ones to win. But maybe being ethical could turn out to be a better edge.Well, it's going to be a very interesting social experiment. My worldview and hope for humanity is on the line now.Thanks a lot for all the info!
(DIR) Post #AS4uPVOGzVEyFF3lLs by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-27T19:32:20Z
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@john I've understood your argument perfect. I just find it weak
(DIR) Post #AS4uVdsCMiy2I5z1km by donnodubus@mas.to
2023-01-27T17:51:32Z
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@aom @john "No quote tweets" is not what makes Mastodon a real alternative to Twitter, for goodness sake. It's the fact that Mastodon is free software that forms a decentralized network. THAT is what's important.Refusing to implement common sense features that most people expect is willfully handing the reins of microblogging over to Elon.
(DIR) Post #AS4uVeSMCHtI6Etu76 by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-27T19:30:16Z
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@donnodubus @john please, take consciousness. Only a few people care about free software and decentralisation. Many are concerned about the toxicity of Twitter. And QRT are well known as one of its main vehicles. Eugen didn't implement it on purpose, and he's only giving up because of the pressure of the people who fleed from Elon, but are so addicted to the bully behaviour of Twitter that need to import it
(DIR) Post #AS4uVezgCOXtlaUW3M by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T19:33:30Z
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@aom @donnodubus I feel like you’re not reading what I’ve written at all! We are getting QTs in apps anyway, without notification and without permissions. I’m saying it would be better if Mastodon can offer a consent based way of doing this.
(DIR) Post #AS4uVg5k7KzRAgKs8u by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-27T19:31:33Z
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@donnodubus @john Mastodon has been around for more than five years and almost nobody requested QRT until November. Please ask yourself why
(DIR) Post #AS4vXq71vng4mdX4Qy by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-27T19:45:05Z
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@aom If you've understood it, you haven't engaged with it, let alone rebutted it. If you don't want to be QTed, fair enough, turn it off. The situation right now is you'll be QTed, and won't even know.
(DIR) Post #AS54Gcedc6JNi17Kfg by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-27T21:22:50Z
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@john @donnodubus then Eugen should take action
(DIR) Post #AS54HEW6qG4J8ZQ3ea by arefgee@mastodon.online
2023-01-27T21:22:56Z
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@john Yeah! That, or the 'website-team' will cater to the majority narcissists and implement both anyway; and I'll have to switch to an instance that won't allow any of that garbage.When I think about it, now that my posts are going through a lull, I might just do it anyway. 🤔 #mastobate
(DIR) Post #AS5Fslv4iI78wbCPcu by catselbow@fosstodon.org
2023-01-27T23:33:00Z
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@john Could good-hearted apps offer users the option of filtering out posts that contain links to other posts? Could we do that already with existing filtering mechanisms?
(DIR) Post #AS5UIZdmO5UrkVJ5Ky by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-28T02:14:32Z
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@aom @donnodubus and do what? Ban 3rd party apps? 😆
(DIR) Post #AS6CgHAx5TXNPjw3SC by aom@paquita.masto.host
2023-01-28T10:31:49Z
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@john @donnodubus that bully attitude is really lovely
(DIR) Post #AS6MgX3r1Zk4DwNOQC by john@sauropods.win
2023-01-28T12:23:57Z
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@aom @donnodubus Sorry, I don't understand.