Post AS3AV5iQZYtbIsFiG8 by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
(DIR) More posts by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
(DIR) Post #AS1w6wto6ieeUeD1uK by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T03:05:19Z
5 likes, 13 repeats
Read my lips:An audio show that can only be played in an Apple player on an Apple device is not a podcast. An audio show that can only be played in Spotify is not a podcast.Repeat ad nauseam for any other proprietary audio show platforms.A #podcast is an #RSS feed with enclosures of audio files which are playable across the whole ecosystem of podcast players.Any reporter who reports on exclusive audio shows and calls them “podcasts” are doing a grave disservice to their audience.
(DIR) Post #AS29TRMunmiUlesZfM by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2023-01-26T05:42:44Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
@jaredwhite
(DIR) Post #AS2C7XKYFs2SkY1LUG by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T06:11:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite As a reporter who reports on exclusive audio shows and occasionally calls them podcasts, I would humbly ask you to consider putting the audience's views first.
(DIR) Post #AS2C7XsaDLGES5wWX2 by clacke@libranet.de
2023-01-26T11:38:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland @jaredwhite Or, educate your audience on why podcasts exist, what's good about them and how non-podcast walled gardens for audio shows destroy those benefits for the audience in the name of corporate control, enclosure and value capture.
(DIR) Post #AS2C7ZI8xnIipeuS0m by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T06:17:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite And, in case you want a rather more considered view, here is a couple of hundred words from this reporter on why I say that. https://podnews.net/article/definition-of-podcast
(DIR) Post #AS2DRtqgLHdUKoK6SW by laurenzannah@mastodon.lol
2023-01-26T03:09:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite @binarytango I mean it could be an ATOM feed but yes I completely agree
(DIR) Post #AS2SmO2zH0eb67J2Aq by davew@mastodon.social
2023-01-26T15:05:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite -- i just saw this, thanks for defending podcasting. i see you're getting some flack on this, i recommend just muting it. there is nothing to debate on this imho.
(DIR) Post #AS2SmORRo4DgJykZIe by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-01-26T15:13:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@davew @jaredwhiteit's not a podcast if it's not decentralized, if the creator and listener have to share a corporate overlord in addition to a format/technology?
(DIR) Post #AS2TXiONRt5xo5sXr6 by davew@mastodon.social
2023-01-26T15:21:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @jaredwhite it's much simpler.if there's no feed it's not a podcast.all that stuff is your spin.
(DIR) Post #AS2VPNTHY2twVuKDaK by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-01-26T15:42:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@davew @jaredwhiteI understand and agree but why does this stuff matter? perhaps our failure to make these points is why these arguments never end. why we have to fight these battles over and over again. we don't educate the public about the importance of the structure or ways of building or consuming or distributing. it would be like having the structures of voting or markets or journalism without understanding what reasoning led us there. people would be vulnerable to every new charlatan.
(DIR) Post #AS2Xq6l7zWoOPPXvJQ by davew@mastodon.social
2023-01-26T16:10:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @jaredwhite you have to fight only because you want to and there are trolls who are willing to help you.
(DIR) Post #AS2Y2FigVBHDftC6Xw by sergio@sergiosgc.com
2023-01-26T16:07:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos @davew @jaredwhiteThe first step towards consumer education is abolition of market confusion. A podcast is standards based, open distribution ecosystem. Anything else needs another name: audio show, Spotify talk radio, whatever.Then, consumers can choose what they want. The current conflation of terms prevents user choice.
(DIR) Post #AS2YsatszvMKQKON1c by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-01-26T16:21:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@davew @jaredwhiteI fight cause I care about the world and have a daughter and think everyone should have health care and think decentralized media/tech moves us closer to better outcomes that serve the general public than media run by big money that misinforms people through ads and algorithms and gatekeeping. maybe fight is the wrong word, but I make my case (while trying to avoid bad faith trolls etc). most people are just differently informed or coming from very different life experiences.
(DIR) Post #AS2p268LqCVJAHiBk0 by Mummabear@noagendasocial.com
2023-01-26T19:22:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite omg I say this all the bloody time.RSS = podcast
(DIR) Post #AS3AV58yhMXVWvfP0K by davidtoddmccarty@me.dm
2023-01-26T19:20:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite You don’t get to decide what a word does or doesn’t mean, nor do I. Culturally, a podcast is an audio program that is made available as a download to your chosen device, as opposed to a program broadcast live and requiring a receiver. No one cares how it works. Frankly, I don’t care, but I find language police annoying. On the other hand, the democratic beauty of the RSS feed is a worthy ideal.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV5iQZYtbIsFiG8 by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T19:26:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@davidtoddmccarty “You don’t get to decide what a word does or doesn’t mean, nor do I"*immediately proceeds to describe what a word means*You don’t see the irony in that? 😂
(DIR) Post #AS3AV66t6cSgWjhFNw by davidtoddmccarty@me.dm
2023-01-26T19:27:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite Touché. Didn’t explain myself well with my thumbs. My point is that society decides, not you, not me.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV6X7X5Rfq5yCH2 by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T19:31:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@davidtoddmccarty And who is "society" in this case?I refuse accept Apple, Spotify, and a tiny handful of other large corporations get to redefine what a podcast is and how podcasting works, then hide behind "well that’s just what society thinks”Podcasting was a *well-established medium* and one of the greatest success stories of the open web. Still is.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV76vNy5Ld8in56 by davidtoddmccarty@me.dm
2023-01-26T19:33:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite They don’t get to own it. But who cares what it’s called? I was enjoying podcasts long before iTunes came out. But it was iTunes that made it a viable thing outside of a handful of nerds in basements.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV7cTUfK3CzTzG4 by palafo@mstdn.social
2023-01-26T19:39:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite While I much prefer open RSS podcasts, and appreciate the sentiment against walled gardens, I have to note that “podcast” is a word derived from a defunct Apple product that greatly popularized the medium itself. I personally hope podcasts mostly remain indie and open to all via RSS but language policing feels like an indirect way to lobby for that
(DIR) Post #AS3AV8Hb1mDRGWipM0 by pwinn@qoto.org
2023-01-26T20:55:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite Mr. LaForge: An editor for the New York Times that calls it “language policing” when two commercial companies attempt to co-opt a label that has meant one thing since 2005, and use it for something different, deliberating blurring the line between them.It’s not language policing, it’s you failing to recognize your own lack of resistance to nefarious corporate marketing, and perpetuating that misinformation as a result.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV8l1GNkejmUKDQ by aelman@masto.ai
2023-01-26T21:10:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pwinn @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite now we’re talking about prescriptive linguistics vs descriptive linguistics. The truth is that most people don’t understand the underlying tech, and think of “podcasts” as “audio programs I can download to my device”. (N.b. the lack of success of video “podcasts” even though there’s no technical difference between audio and video!) I’m a fan of open RSS-based podcasts, but arguing the language is pointless.
(DIR) Post #AS3AV9Lt3JF4a7jlgG by aelman@masto.ai
2023-01-26T21:11:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pwinn @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite disagree? Go ask ten non-tech-savvy friends. (If you get different results I’ll be shocked.)
(DIR) Post #AS3AV9q1FHLS5ZppeC by pwinn@qoto.org
2023-01-26T21:36:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aelman @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite@davew is in this thread and co-invented podcasting. I wonder if he thinks the word should be used to describe DRMed data locked into a single proprietary client. Does his word matter more or less than the two companies attempting to profit from redefining it?
(DIR) Post #AS3AVALZLya9fQb1pA by pwinn@qoto.org
2023-01-26T21:43:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aelman @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite @davewPlease also note that I am not attempting to accost random non-savvy friends who don’t know better, but am instead responding to someone whose bio describes him as an editor for the New York Times. If a person I don’t know walks down the street talking about the “Joe Rogan podcast,” I feel no need or desire to correct them. If I see that phrase in America’s paper of record, I wonder if everything else in the paper is as poorly informed.
(DIR) Post #AS3AVAm9l7qizt2GGW by aelman@masto.ai
2023-01-26T22:58:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pwinn @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite @davew Having read many things in the NYT and other sources of generally-great journalism about things I know more about, I can say with confidence that you should never assume that any journalist is particularly well-informed about anything. 🤣 The good ones are trying hard, but they don’t know.
(DIR) Post #AS3AVBKtfxdejdI0Po by davew@mastodon.social
2023-01-26T23:03:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aelman @pwinn @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite Why it's so important to get clear on what podcasting is. Because podcasting is like the web. And we're fighting for something much bigger than podcasting, something which *includes* podcasting, the ownership of the web itself.Google has been acting like the owner of the web for a few years. This is being covered up by the tech industry, but it is a fact and a public issue of the most importance. The web belongs to no one. Period.
(DIR) Post #AS3AVBtHc790SHNT0q by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2023-01-26T23:23:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@davew @aelman @pwinn @palafo @davidtoddmccarty @jaredwhite No-one except me.
(DIR) Post #AS4NhPxMdVc87IPHgO by moth_ball@shitposter.club
2023-01-27T13:25:57.665849Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mjgardner @jaredwhite Hate to break it to you but you've lost that battle a long time ago. It was the same thing with fedora hats but in the end no one cared.
(DIR) Post #AS4bR8InuBAI5WZ2PY by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2023-01-27T15:49:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@moth_ball @jaredwhite Nope, gonna die on this hill, kid. I didn’t accept that AOL’s RAINMAN screens were “web pages,” either. https://www.zdnet.com/article/aol-considers-switch-to-html/
(DIR) Post #AS4bR8v5bpn20GTc5Q by moth_ball@shitposter.club
2023-01-27T15:59:53.689223Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mjgardner @jaredwhite I respect your conviction, friend. We need more people like you.
(DIR) Post #AS4crKgGbYvHxjaz8C by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2023-01-27T16:02:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@moth_ball @jaredwhite Also, this clearly struck a nerve with the numbers it’s doing.
(DIR) Post #AS5FlaGbdiKcmDqJGa by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T06:36:13Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland I'll have to strongly disagree with your conclusions on this. Companies like Spotify do not get to redefine what the word "podcast" means any more than some random company can just decide what a "website" is.And no, some audio show that's exclusively on YouTube or BBC or whatever is *not* a podcast.The reason the public is confused is because (some) tech journalists aren't doing their damn job.
(DIR) Post #AS5FlaixwH16CB6xTE by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T06:48:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite I would also add - the use of "tech journalist" doesn't help your argument. People talking about the content in podcasts - whether they're open RSS enclosures or things like Joe Rogan - aren't tech journalists. They're media journalists.I come from radio. A lot of radio (but by no means the majority) is now listened-to online, rather than radio waves. Doesn't stop it from being "radio", though.
(DIR) Post #AS5Flbbudyy8waoq7E by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T06:58:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland The ecosystem of podcasting, like the ecosystem of the blogosphere before it, like the ecosystem of the web itself, has a certain inherent set of characteristics. One of them is that you can subscribe to a podcast in any player which supports podcasts. I consider that an inviolate feature of this medium.If I can't subscribe to your podcast in my player of choice, it's not a podcast.
(DIR) Post #AS5Flc8Ai2m0YdubOi by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T07:00:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland With regard to "aren't tech journalists. They're media journalists"What? Are you trying to tell me that because someone's a "media journalist" it means that they don't have any responsibility to understand the basic technology by which said media is distributed? That's a total cop out.
(DIR) Post #AS5FlcWzDmcfnbWQ4m by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T07:06:07Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jaredwhite With respect, I think it would be a good idea to read the article I've shared, wind your neck in a little, and think for a bit about "distribution platforms" vs "media formats".You don't get to tell millions of people listening to Joe Rogan that they aren't listening to a podcast.
(DIR) Post #AS5FnM9J6FqxZRH2A4 by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T07:26:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland It's worth noting that not all of the Spotify-branded original shows are exclusive to Spotify. Of the ones that can be played in other players via RSS, those are most certainly podcasts. But it is my contention that when that's not the case, as it seems to be still with The Joe Rogan Experience, that then does not qualify as a podcast.
(DIR) Post #AS5FnMgd6MVZEmre6K by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T09:12:54Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jaredwhite I understand where you're coming from, now you've calmed down and stopped shouting at reporters.I think the ship has sailed though. I understand your technical definition of what you consider a podcast; but I also look at this from a consumer point of view. There is no difference between Rogan and No Agenda; no difference between a BBC Sounds show and one on Apple Podcasts. It's a piece of on-demand audio, a bit like a radio show. And that is what most people call a podcast.
(DIR) Post #AS5FqnTByjJvAnDQEC by mshaw@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-26T11:00:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland @jaredwhite hi, I don't know either of you and I definitely don't have a horse in the "definition of a podcast" race but I am fascinated by your characterizing of Jared's language here as "yelling at reporters." To me it all comes across as very measured and polite, never turns personal in any way and allows for the presence of differing opinions while taking a position and holding it out of principle. Are you willing to clarify what you mean by this?
(DIR) Post #AS5Fqo0A09gwp2dkcC by muhkayoh@mastodon.social
2023-01-26T12:44:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mshaw @jamescridland @jaredwhite Yeah, the "now you've calmed down and stopped shouting at reporters" bit was uncalled for.
(DIR) Post #AS5FqoUIC7nKKUjoa8 by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T12:53:29Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@muhkayoh @mshaw @jaredwhite The phrase was: "tech journalists aren't doing their damn job" which doesn't really come across as measured, polite, or proportionate.I do my damn job. I do it very damn well.
(DIR) Post #AS5FqqU0m8l4WCccQC by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T13:00:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@muhkayoh @mshaw @jaredwhite I'd also suggest that the initial post from Jared was written very combatively, from the "Read My Lips" kick-off. Make a point, yes, but don't make it while being rude and inconsiderate, and best not to denigrate an entire profession while you do it. That's not really the best plan if you're trying to change the world.
(DIR) Post #AS5HPoPyXrksCeyHo0 by mshaw@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-26T13:06:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland @muhkayoh @jaredwhite I see, thanks for clarifying. To be honest this strikes me as a shockingly low tolerance threshold, especially for someone in the profession of journalism (my mother the retired science museum curator gets more heated in discussing her birding newsletter), but I appreciate your honesty.
(DIR) Post #AS5HPotkl9Zfh0u4Dg by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-26T13:18:44Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@mshaw @muhkayoh @jaredwhite Thanks for your unsolicited thoughts on whether I should or shouldn't have just rolled over when someone tells me to "do my damn job". I think I'll go with my own thoughts on the matter, though! :)
(DIR) Post #AS5wG0eqHNvHOBMyUC by n8chz@queer.party
2023-01-26T22:06:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite @jamescridland Stuff like this is why so many of us so adamantly and incessantly bleat #ProtocolsNotPlatforms but it all seems in vain. Certainly #media are a source of headwinds for this informational campaign. Obviously this is because media are, by their very nature, monetized. I don't think monetized activity is possible on a (open) protocol, and it seems non-monetized activity is nearly impossible on a #platform (or even a platform-dominated #web).
(DIR) Post #AS5wG1F06wqXCKHqqW by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-27T01:40:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@n8chz @jaredwhite Monetised activity is asbolutely possible on an open protocol. And open podcasting is showing the way. https://value4value.info/
(DIR) Post #AS5wG2s23Jf6FfYXK4 by n8chz@queer.party
2023-01-26T22:12:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite @jamescridland I'm pretty sure a majority of the members of our society (even a majority of the artists) are not #anticapitalist. It's understood and largely accepted that opportunities to earn income do not occur apart from opportunities to get exploited.
(DIR) Post #AS5wG4RsBXvR97KfpI by n8chz@queer.party
2023-01-26T22:13:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite @jamescridland A nonproprietary alternative for communication or "content distribution" will simply be seen as an opportunity to earn $0. If it happens to cost $0 to use, the professional (by the usual definition) will use the free (in both senses) system basically to promote instances of their "content" in monetized spaces (platforms), and for not much else. I'm not gonna judge that, but I usually don't follow such accounts, either.
(DIR) Post #AS5wPr5sh00EcgiBJw by jeff@indieweb.social
2023-01-26T23:25:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamescridland @jaredwhite As a member of said audience, I humbly ask that reporters don’t tell me things that are factually incorrect.
(DIR) Post #AS5wPsIKEDYELZXdM8 by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-27T01:39:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeff @jaredwhite I think the debate here (and all available data) shows that "podcast" is not, de-facto, RSS-distributed, according to the audience.
(DIR) Post #AS5wPskgWmEhlWoHYm by jeff@indieweb.social
2023-01-27T02:06:57Z
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@jamescridland @jaredwhite There are media outlets with audiences who sincerely doubt the efficacy of vaccines in combating disease and who think climate change is a hoax.Things don’t become true just because an audience is misled.These are (admittedly far more consequential) outcomes driven by journalists who not just allow audiences to decide what reality is, but have _reinforced_ those falsehoods — actively contributing to collective ignorance.
(DIR) Post #AS5wPtFAhQcfI54d4y by jeff@indieweb.social
2023-01-27T02:07:46Z
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@jeff @jamescridland @jaredwhite Obviously coopting of podcasting by walled garden offerings from Spotify, et al isn’t nearly as insidious, but it’s fair IMHO to say audiences have been misled by both concerted efforts by tech to ride the coattails of a thriving open ecosystem AND by journalists who failed (and continue to fail) to push back on that coopting.What’s done is done, but it’d be helpful if those responsible helped undo the damage.
(DIR) Post #AS5wPtwm5JV7TJTS2i by jamescridland@podcastindex.social
2023-01-27T02:49:12Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@jeff @jaredwhite Again, I can only point to the data of what people think a "podcast" is. That's not a failure in reporting.I also continue to advocate for open podcasting, and as far as I can, highlight why walled gardens are deeply unhelpful.I understand that you have deep beliefs about precise technical definitions here; but the vast majority of creators and listeners do not share them.
(DIR) Post #AS6vKPepMpPdHprHP6 by steeph@todon.eu
2023-01-27T21:16:22Z
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@mjgardner @jaredwhite Is it correct to call RSS part of the web though? RSS could be served without a web site even though it seems that only 0 % of the people who keep saying this also have an RSS feed that is not mirrored on some web site.
(DIR) Post #AS6vKQJwtwJ1LN67V2 by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2023-01-27T21:29:57Z
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@steeph @jaredwhite The #RSS 2.0 specification explicitly states the <enclosure> element’s url attribute must be an HTTP URL, so yes. #Podcast audio must be served over the web.
(DIR) Post #AS6vKQpV0dXivDrJg0 by steeph@todon.eu
2023-01-27T21:36:54Z
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@mjgardner @jaredwhite Hmm, I don't consider everything that's served over HTTP as part of the web. But that may just be my personal, wrong, definition.
(DIR) Post #AS6vKRLP6140WAmnPE by mjgardner@social.sdf.org
2023-01-27T21:48:38Z
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@steeph @jaredwhite Is your issue with the definition of HTTP or the definition of the World Wide Web?
(DIR) Post #AS6vKRqFFLjY3pDQTg by steeph@todon.eu
2023-01-27T21:53:44Z
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@mjgardner @jaredwhite Without ever having thought about it or looking it up now, I'd say the WWW is served over HTTPS/HTTP and HTTP is the protocol used by the WWW, but not exclusively. I don't know how to classify e.g. data transfers of mobile apps over HTTPS in the background that don't involve a web browser. Whenever I think about it, I mainly maintain the thought that I'm glad that I don't have to definitely define what's to be considered part of the web and what isn't.
(DIR) Post #AS6vKSOHCoxJlN8bWS by DavidB@noagendasocial.com
2023-01-28T18:52:13Z
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@steeph @mjgardner @jaredwhite the Internet is TCP/IP and it carries other protocols. Protocols such as HTTP/HTTPS which is the world wide web.
(DIR) Post #ATPw7tW6gU51Fr8GBc by Zergling_man@birds.garden
2023-03-08T20:52:46.943434Z
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@jaredwhite >reporter>grave disserviceThat's the idea.
(DIR) Post #AWMishArk7oDMHH8vA by twizzay@thisis.mylegendary.quest
2023-06-05T01:16:32.742117Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaredwhite Its more like an audio streaming service when you think about it like that. Shouldnt be grouped in with the other RSSible feeds. Agree. :duckie-thumb: