Post ARb0NaAP24qrShEyCe by HaplogroupNews@genealogy.social
(DIR) More posts by HaplogroupNews@genealogy.social
(DIR) Post #ARZJuYoWapVtdRWg1A by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2023-01-12T12:16:56Z
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Should we campaign to #fediblock commercially owned instances on #Mastodon?This poll follows news that #Medium has started its own instance.We could make exceptions for news orgs, or maybe force them to use non profit instances.
(DIR) Post #ARb0NaAP24qrShEyCe by HaplogroupNews@genealogy.social
2023-01-12T15:36:55.216Z
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@happyborg@fosstodon.org No, make them pay for their own servers. Why would we want them freeloading off of volunteer run user-funded servers?
(DIR) Post #ARb0m4GEnLUJkNe436 by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
2023-01-13T09:22:29.183256Z
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@HaplogroupNewsExactly this. We shouldn't block them unless they start looking an active threat to the Fediverse, and we don't want them mooching off volunteer labor. @happyborg
(DIR) Post #ARb0mWrQSfs8RpG9tw by ada@blahaj.zone
2023-01-12T12:23:41.271Z
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@happyborg@fosstodon.org I think this will self balance. On their own instances, admins can make a decision as to whether or not they agree with brands having instances. Some will block, some won't.
(DIR) Post #ARb0n419BYFxHX3t8S by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2023-01-12T15:55:24Z
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@HaplogroupNews that's a good point, although payment is a separate issue. So two issues:- make them pay- don't allow them to grow so powerful that they can begin to exploit users and poison the space (like Facebook)
(DIR) Post #ARb0n4TrSnE0iaUotM by HaplogroupNews@genealogy.social
2023-01-12T16:03:21.342Z
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@happyborg@fosstodon.org Indeed. We already have a problem with people acting like Mastodon is the Fediverse. I know from prior posts that Medium is considering implementing ActivityPub. For their users, it would be a very good thing. Thus, for now, I am treating Medium much the same as I plan to treat Tumblr when they become Federated.
(DIR) Post #ARb0pT355hKvUg72Ku by freakazoid@retro.social
2023-01-12T17:19:44Z
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@happyborg I think we should be blocking instances if we think federating with them will harm the Fediverse. And I think the fear of harm has to be reasonably concrete. Otherwise we end up blocking for ideological reasons, and the more ideological the Fediverse becomes the more fragmented it will be due to people's differing ideologies. And that fragmentation WILL harm the Fediverse. Which is not to say I think it's always bad to fragment the Fediverse. We just need to weigh the harm from fragmentation against the harm from federating. In the case of white supremacists and other bigots and harrassers, fragmentation actually protects the Fediverse.In the case of Medium, the potential harm seems fairly abstract, because they don't appear to be creating the instance for the purpose of attracting a bunch of people to the instance. I don't like Medium as a platform, but I don't think its existence causes harm to the Fediverse except in a very abstract sense. It doesn't seem likely their operating an instance will either, at least from what I've heard about its purpose.
(DIR) Post #ARb0pUHIWKIpJ3lu8O by freakazoid@retro.social
2023-01-12T17:21:56Z
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@happyborg I guess another way to put this is: are you willing to defederate from instances that federate with Medium's instance? If not, then now you have to deal with broken threads if they happen to involve someone from that instance.
(DIR) Post #ARfilwubI7yrZP7Nh2 by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2023-01-12T12:42:27Z
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If we don't act my expectation is that in time you will end up with a small number of very large instances and eventually one enormous instance (Cf. Facebook) which becomes impractical to block. That's how money centralises everything - steadily over time.I can see arguments that being open, being able to move etc means it won't be quite as bad as Facebook, but that's not a good argument IMO.
(DIR) Post #ARfilxRvIEdTEkhzdI by ladyunicornejg@toot.io
2023-01-15T15:15:21Z
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@happyborg thing is, the biggest issues at least I have with Facebook basically come down to moving cost. Without being able to trap users, you can't trap and exploit users. I don't care if someone makes money or a lot of people choose one server. I care that I couldn't choose differently without losing access to friends, family, and even external sites that forced that login.
(DIR) Post #ARfilxwPSt1QlIyL9U by happyborg@fosstodon.org
2023-01-15T15:37:14Z
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@ladyunicornejg I agree. My point really is to see if people think business is a threat to federation. The poll results suggests at least a quarter see it as serious enough to vote yes.From the discussion others do also see the threat but you're right, it is hard to figure out a good way to push back.TBH I don't think federation can survive against the ingenuity of well funded businesses as it becomes popular. I think we'll need something better, such as an encrypted p2p platform.
(DIR) Post #ARfilyZP7uDKiFDTvs by ladyunicornejg@toot.io
2023-01-15T15:19:53Z
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@happyborg funny enough, depending on how that block works, your proposed response could actually be imposing similar costs on users. I'd much rather be able to connect with people (and governments and even brands) who choose commercially owned servers than not be able to. IDC about if they can be on the local and federated feeds or just personal though.