Post ARZz7VPSep8Gxj5tr6 by jfleck@fediscience.org
(DIR) More posts by jfleck@fediscience.org
(DIR) Post #ARZtAF2rMDq5LuRa8u by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T20:11:21Z
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After becoming a regular daily errands-and-commuting cyclist in NYC for a few years now, whenever I get in my car to go somewhere ...... the sheer weight and size of the metal around me seems positively *sci fi*I mean, cars?They're basically MECHAS. Right?A human inside controlling this weirdly big-ass piece of exoskeletal steel
(DIR) Post #ARZtwCo8ylAOJUQp6G by boojit@mastodon.pundo.com
2023-01-12T20:30:20Z
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@clive When I cycle I treat other cars as if they are herd animals. Big heavy dumb things that usually don't even notice I'm there, and if they do notice me it may not go well for me. Tempremental and quick to anger, they are also unpredictable when they get spooked. I never assume they will do the sensible thing.(I tend to think of them as American Bison.)That's only tangentially related to what you said, I guess. Maybe they are mechas that decrease the human driver's IQ by 50 points?
(DIR) Post #ARZuA4b6IljKu4wYAS by harrisj@hachyderm.io
2023-01-12T20:32:35Z
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@clive There is a weird sensory melding after a little bit of driving where you basically start to feel the boundaries of the car automatically. If you nearly get into an accident you yell "You almost hit me!" and not "you almost hit my car!"
(DIR) Post #ARZuGemuevbasrbkDw by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T20:32:55Z
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@boojit Bison are a good way to think of itBig ol heavy metal bison, don't wanna piss 'em off, and with all that long hair hanging in their eyes they may not see you
(DIR) Post #ARZuTuyLnTAkqNHUAq by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T20:34:32Z
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@harrisj Yes, precisely! Very cyberneticAlso, a Canadian poet I once knew regarded cars as deeply Freudian places -- id-release devices, "hence the exuberant singing along with the radio, the quick and ready rages"
(DIR) Post #ARZvA2MkhL6Nw9mLCq by kissane@mstdn.social
2023-01-12T20:42:54Z
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@clive @harrisj As a former non-driver (got my first license in 2019) now doing daily school runs by car in a place dominated by big trucks, I feel all of this very hard.
(DIR) Post #ARZvA2qWucvBQVi7cW by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T20:43:40Z
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@kissane @harrisj Totally!
(DIR) Post #ARZvhquvlpqeH7tETg by kissane@mstdn.social
2023-01-12T20:50:11Z
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@clive @harrisj Like how am I, a not a car person, feeling this weird joy when I tomato-seed through the narrow street half blocked by utility trucks and nail the perfect accel-decel curve at the corner after the long straight run? I meant to be immune to fast kinetic pleasures! This is not my body! And yet it moves :blobfacepalm:
(DIR) Post #ARZxX7f9N3AWvvWIPw by marksmith@mastodon.social
2023-01-12T21:10:36Z
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@clive Safety first!
(DIR) Post #ARZz7VPSep8Gxj5tr6 by jfleck@fediscience.org
2023-01-12T21:28:00Z
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@clive This gives clarifying voice to my discomfort in my automobile, thanks.
(DIR) Post #ARa03KDiPwsh3SAdlo by Mike_Ryan_Ret@mstdn.ca
2023-01-12T21:38:52Z
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@clive “regular daily errands-and-commuting cyclist in NYC”Having been to NYC and dealt with the traffic, I have to say, you, Sir, have my admiration. One of my most frightening taxi rides was from our hotel in Manhattan to LaGuardia.
(DIR) Post #ARa2qQO4TdvoHNYRt2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:10:10Z
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@kissane @harrisj heh heh yes
(DIR) Post #ARa34UBp8WGI7uWyrQ by harrisj@hachyderm.io
2023-01-12T22:04:09Z
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@kissane @clive The poor medieval peasant never got to experience the visceral joys of a perfect down-shift to switch lanes and make a turn while your favorite song is cresting on the radio
(DIR) Post #ARa34UgfHqvpfYxbvs by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:10:35Z
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@harrisj @kissane The thing about driving that is going to bake the goddamn planet is that it can really be fun
(DIR) Post #ARa3ihcyasHJO3PMnY by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:18:20Z
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@Mike_Ryan_Ret One does need to keep one's wits about them!
(DIR) Post #ARa3rGLHPSdLMwDER6 by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:18:51Z
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@jfleck 🤘 🤖
(DIR) Post #ARa3wcLn0kJH4f0KK8 by TheIdlestHand@c.im
2023-01-12T21:27:42Z
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@harrisj @clive @kissane What should we call that - proprioception creep? In The Glass Cage, Nicholas Carr talks about how the tools we create shape us, including our nervous systems. Interestingly, the most common place people report experiencing flow state is driving a car (according to Csikszentmihalyi and LeFevre).
(DIR) Post #ARa3wct70qxsk0awGO by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:19:15Z
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@TheIdlestHand @harrisj @kissane I *love* "proprioception creep"!
(DIR) Post #ARa41Hh3F02ISIAt5U by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:19:31Z
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@marksmith heh heh yes
(DIR) Post #ARa46rXROhw54gL692 by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:20:44Z
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@boojit @harrisj Yep, we are -- as the philosopher of the "extended mind" thesis, Andy Clark, would put it in his book of this title -- "Natural-Born Cyborgs"Our brains love incorporating external tools and even entire environments into our cognitive apparatus
(DIR) Post #ARa4Dm99qGPqNbHGM4 by bathsheba@mathstodon.xyz
2023-01-12T22:04:36Z
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@boojit Maybe as part of the wiring for tool use? Learning to use knife or hammer effectively, maybe even shoes and clothing, means accepting them as body parts.Certainly extending that to bikes and cars (which are totally mecha!) seems extreme, but evolution can be weirdly economical, and I could believe that code was written for the very general case.
(DIR) Post #ARa4DrQiCQQclUWquW by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-12T22:21:00Z
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@bathsheba @boojit yes, precisely
(DIR) Post #ARaWKq5aNcrTLmlNfE by ccount@lor.sh
2023-01-13T03:40:39Z
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@clive A protective exoskeleton with meat inside. Meanwhile on my bike, I'm practically naked meat protecting the skeleton inside.
(DIR) Post #ARaYtvlnS0330rMrHk by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-13T04:09:23Z
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@ccount Yep yep
(DIR) Post #ARdw2EN73P9TRTd28G by noahshachtman@mstdn.social
2023-01-14T19:12:41Z
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@clive I thought I was the only one who had that thought
(DIR) Post #ARdwruATPsnnq6MBG4 by martinvermeer@fediscience.org
2023-01-14T19:20:33Z
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@clive I had this same sensation when I got my driver's licence late in life. 1.5 - 2 tons of glass and steel and neoprene, at your fingertips, right? Still amazed watching lorry drivers on narrow streets. I actually suspect that learning the size of your vehicle and where all its corners are is an adaptation of the same process for your biological body. #cars #exoskeletons
(DIR) Post #ARdxXeI4q2d2l7onPk by eye0ftheworld@mastodon.world
2023-01-14T19:17:52Z
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@harrisj @kissane @clive I'm sure their buggy rides and sung songs were comparable. But nothing like a good set of speakers.
(DIR) Post #ARdxXerAjYhYVyEp7I by martinvermeer@fediscience.org
2023-01-14T19:24:18Z
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@eye0ftheworld @harrisj @kissane @clive Part of the illusion is the speaker on the roof to shout at the other road users.
(DIR) Post #ARdxXfI77OFhrWqL6u by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-14T19:29:35Z
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@martinvermeer @eye0ftheworld @harrisj @kissane heh heh yeah
(DIR) Post #ARdxivW58KAHMykLmy by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-14T19:30:14Z
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@martinvermeer Yeah, the extension of our proprioception to a huge vehicle is amazing
(DIR) Post #ARdxtm5QX9jDJCS4B6 by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-14T19:30:52Z
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@noahshachtman Once you see it you can't unsee it
(DIR) Post #ARdyYrpE6OkKyoT6g4 by martinvermeer@fediscience.org
2023-01-14T19:37:00Z
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@clive @boojit @harrisj It also helps substitution of internal senses, like adapting hearing and touch to be used as a replacement vision in blind people.
(DIR) Post #ARdyrWEMc9jFVX7VLs by MarkRNay@ravenation.club
2023-01-14T19:41:17Z
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@clive for protection at speeds that can kill you. Something a cycle does not provide I am afraid and it cannot go as fast
(DIR) Post #ARdzKseWKU41RhM5nk by aprilex@mstdn.social
2023-01-14T19:45:35Z
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@clive I thought I was the only one who thought that!
(DIR) Post #ARe2EDhTyY9GYlFxce by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-14T20:21:19Z
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@aprilex No, it appears there are many of us!I was just talking about this with @noahshachtman “Once you see it you can’t unsee it”
(DIR) Post #ARe3ZylGIblGYHxnyy by Zeke@masto.ai
2023-01-14T20:37:14Z
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@clive @harrisj @kissane that doesn't inhere in cars but the level of excess WIERD nations maintain. As in all other matters, we've completely ceded control of the product to capitalism
(DIR) Post #ARfzUKixiYShQlrOWO by aprilex@mstdn.social
2023-01-15T19:00:44Z
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@clive @noahshachtman I didn't learn to drive until I knew I was doomed to live in NJ. There isn't much I like about it.
(DIR) Post #ARgo0UiP6OgxON80XI by clive@saturation.social
2023-01-16T04:26:35Z
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@aprilex @noahshachtman Yeah, it's a bummer when you're reliant on a car But that's a common situation in the US!
(DIR) Post #AUD6zpTFmITj5o8LFA by paulmyoung@newsie.social
2023-04-01T14:14:33Z
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@clive if only I could get some weapons mounted...
(DIR) Post #AUDHJ2nlRBvpTtWosK by nuncio@mstdn.social
2023-04-01T10:56:12Z
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@boojit @clive Wow - I've never heard it put so well. That is exactly what we become when we're in these big exoskeletons
(DIR) Post #AUDHJ3TavfONZd6E4m by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-01T16:09:43Z
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@boojit @nuncio Alas yes
(DIR) Post #AUDN9JaalaKQNN6xDE by vanderwal@mastodon.social
2023-04-01T17:15:29Z
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@clive @martinvermeer In the early 90s on Fridays living in San Francisco I would ride my bike to and from work going from near Golden Gate Park to about 5th and Mission. The 6 to 9 blocks of riding on Market Street in rush hour traffic in the morning had me feeling like a fish swimming with a large pod of killer whales, very apt at bumping into you or each other. It was the one day a week I didn’t need coffee in the morning.
(DIR) Post #AUDN9rWsZtYpdhdT96 by gatesvp@mstdn.ca
2023-04-01T17:14:02Z
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@clive 7 or 8 years ago I started talking about passenger vehicles as "mobile power plants". We see this now with electric cars theoretically capable of powering a house for days.And like 90% of the car's typical energy usage is spent moving the car itself.If we added weapons, they would be Mecha. 🤖But even in their current form they are power plants with wheels and steering. 🔋🔌🛞
(DIR) Post #AUDf5rKHBqnX1dyuKO by isaaccp@kolektiva.social
2023-04-01T20:36:09Z
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@clive Same. I drive the car about once a month in NYC now and I behave indeed as if I was maneuvering a deadly killing machine, because I am.
(DIR) Post #AUE1QVVvgDUyRvgPBI by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-02T00:43:11Z
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@isaaccp Yeah I’m kind of terrified driving it tbh
(DIR) Post #AUE1W77VHyjgWwvoQK by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-02T00:43:30Z
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@vanderwal @martinvermeer Killer whales, great metaphor
(DIR) Post #AUE1iWFZgJ7NwfccGe by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-02T00:44:46Z
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@gatesvp Great way of putting it! They *primarily* generate power, only secondarily exist to move stuff around … and even so do that latter task in a risibly inefficient manner
(DIR) Post #AUXr6KY6U1C3MSYM88 by debs@mastodon.cloud
2023-04-11T14:26:15Z
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@clive it’s why I love the horses!
(DIR) Post #AUXzFyf9VgSA0kxeaW by clive@saturation.social
2023-04-11T15:57:32Z
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@debs Totally