Post ARL0fP23X3xSdcEEHQ by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
(DIR) More posts by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
(DIR) Post #ARL05aqy6W0IsLy1mi by afouxenidis@mastodon.world
2023-01-05T08:56:03Z
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The fundamental hindrance with 'democracy' and what not many #academics are really dealing with, is #capitalism Capitalism, in essence, will always generate powerful resistance(s) to any sort of 'democracy' one may imagine. #politics #sociology #democracy
(DIR) Post #ARL05bP03zE4ZttCpU by LeRoyWesterling@sfba.social
2023-01-05T15:43:43Z
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@afouxenidis “Capitalism” with a capital “C” is not a thing, any more than is “Antifa”. You’re mistaking corruption for capitalism. Any system can be easily corrupted if institutions are neglected.
(DIR) Post #ARL05bzrquiUQF8eIK by afouxenidis@mastodon.world
2023-01-05T15:49:11Z
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@LeRoyWesterling 'Antifa' is a social movement. Capitalism is an economic system. Not sure what you mean but thanks anyway.
(DIR) Post #ARL05cXXpheg6gtXmq by LeRoyWesterling@sfba.social
2023-01-05T15:55:03Z
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@afouxenidis we have mixed system with aspects of capitalism and socialism. The problems you see with it are caused by weak institutions that allow rampant corruption. I have lived in socialist and communist countries with the same problems. It’s not particularly helpful to misdiagnose problems… it makes it difficult to solve them.
(DIR) Post #ARL0fOdb00ONPkmh9c by afouxenidis@mastodon.world
2023-01-05T15:56:55Z
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@LeRoyWesterling Who is 'we'? And what does 'communism' have to do with what I am suggesting?
(DIR) Post #ARL0fP23X3xSdcEEHQ by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
2023-01-05T16:05:53.947860Z
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@afouxenidis I think what Leroy is saying is that there is a continuum between non-capitalist systems and unrestrained capitalist ones, and that the issue in his eyes isn’t that we have capitalism as much that we have weak and corrupt government oversight of it. His reference to communist countries probably refers to places like China and the USSR back when it existed.I think the ‘we’ in this case refers to the United States, which does have a mixed system (albeit one which is closer to laissez faire than most).@LeRoyWesterling, feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.
(DIR) Post #ARL0nlx2ChK22Ks30a by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
2023-01-05T16:07:24.863551Z
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@afouxenidisFor the record, I am currently best described as a social democrat, so what I have described is pretty close to what I strongly suspect would work best.@LeRoyWesterling
(DIR) Post #ARL7bgJq1ABklyicC0 by afouxenidis@mastodon.world
2023-01-05T16:16:39Z
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@ML2 @LeRoyWesterling And what I am saying is that the incompatibility between the ideas of 'democracy' and 'capitalism' requires much more investigation and research. And that 'capitalism' is inherently undemocratic. "Corruption" is a symptom not a framework of explanation. You can have less corruption without being particularly democratic. Democracy is not capitalist because they are differently positioned with respect to legitimacy.
(DIR) Post #ARL7bglUMMJ49jehI8 by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
2023-01-05T17:23:39.223193Z
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@afouxenidisIf I am reading between the lines correctly, you are suggesting that things like regulatory capture, bribes, etc. becoming entrenched and ultimately destroy the overarching democracy are inevitable whenever capitalism is used as the system of economic organization. If this is what you are referring to (correct me if I am wrong), then I have heard this argument before, and in fact I am still thinking about it after I first heard about it years ago.On the one hand I'm not convinced it's correct with respect to social democracy, which seems better able to deal with these issues than American-style systems, and in general a well informed, vigilant, politically savvy population together with a transparent, responsive, democratic government should be a bulwark against this kind of corrosion. The American system also has its own issues, like first past the post voting and parts of the checks and balance system not working properly, that also make things more difficult. That being said: I am not convinced the claim is wrong either, and if anything I need more data on what has been tried before than I have now in order to reach anything like a conclusion either way.@LeRoyWesterling
(DIR) Post #ARL7d9ylEBzf3FZ572 by afouxenidis@mastodon.world
2023-01-05T16:52:23Z
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@ML2 If you are in the US that means that you stand far over to the left. In Europe that means moderate centre-right. Political culture is in a state of flux as always.
(DIR) Post #ARL7yvmMhgDzNk9FDc by ML2@akkoma.sandhill.social
2023-01-05T17:27:52.956922Z
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@afouxenidisYeah, the political spectrum in the US is quite skewed
(DIR) Post #ARLdG5hQAddxeQUwLI by LeRoyWesterling@sfba.social
2023-01-05T18:36:34Z
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@ML2 @afouxenidis any system is open to corruption and capture if people are not vigilant. A robust social democracy with secure property rights and strong provision of public goods would be great.
(DIR) Post #ARLdGFxO28M9Sq2pcG by LeRoyWesterling@sfba.social
2023-01-05T18:38:37Z
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@ML2 @afouxenidis this is exactly what I think. And yes, I used to live in China.
(DIR) Post #ARLdGGXtqNYzI57zWq by LeRoyWesterling@sfba.social
2023-01-05T18:42:49Z
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@ML2 @afouxenidis I think social democracy is difficult to sustain in the USA because our antiquated constitution gives too little weight to urban votes. We need institutions better designed to sustain the kind of society we want to engender.