Post AQdwKfChSKtyjnMQDo by kevin@mastodon.km6g.us
(DIR) More posts by kevin@mastodon.km6g.us
(DIR) Post #AQdpCIvNht01dyKKXo by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-15T20:04:49Z
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Pros and cons; Signal versus Matrix? #Signal #Matrix
(DIR) Post #AQduO7DfYEl0aSKf56 by Natureshadow@floss.social
2022-12-15T21:02:56Z
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@hehemrin Signal is a walled garden based on non-free software controlled by a suspicious institution that menaces users who make use of their rights.
(DIR) Post #AQduPrvhMy9FkHlLhg by bart@sociabl.be
2022-12-15T21:03:17Z
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@hehemrin Pro Matrix: self hosting, federatedPro Signal: ease of use, less bugsI use Matrix + Element for the above reasons, obviously 😎
(DIR) Post #AQdvtKNOmfJwK8KX4a by tmarble@mstdn.io
2022-12-15T21:19:48Z
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@hehemrin Signal: +more popular? -closed -discourages federationMatrix: +open protocol & implementation, +encourages federation, -large API surface, -harder to have a consistent user experience across multiple platforms
(DIR) Post #AQdw9K9BP7NWFJJBdg by PublicLewdness@freespeechextremist.com
2022-12-15T21:22:43.442285Z
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@hehemrin Cons for Matrix: Matrix leaks metadata. Cons for Signal: Signal requires a phone number to be linked to account, server side going closed sourcePros for Matrix: lots of clients to choose from, Can choose server or self host, totally FOSS
(DIR) Post #AQdw9zt0DfOJhI3rFY by Doktor_S@social.tchncs.de
2022-12-15T21:22:49Z
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@hehemrin S is a centralized service, M is decentralized. S requires a phone number which is used as identifier for contacting one another, M uses IDs similar to email (@yourID:server), S is pretty much a standard messenger that is very easy to use, M is more like a messenger and a chatroom server in one place which can be a bit confusing, S you have one client and one server, M you have several clients, a lot of established servers and you can even host your own server...
(DIR) Post #AQdwKfChSKtyjnMQDo by kevin@mastodon.km6g.us
2022-12-15T21:24:44Z
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@hehemrin Matrix: Doesn't rely on identities managed by global monopolies.
(DIR) Post #AQdxoCTavdOyHZuXwW by Crofton@society.oftrolls.com
2022-12-15T21:41:17Z
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@hehemrin Different tools
(DIR) Post #AQdxpRh3pwvRldnt7g by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2022-12-15T21:41:30Z
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@hehemrin we might be a bit biased here
(DIR) Post #AQe1WHngnKUNOo1WF6 by cherti@chaos.social
2022-12-15T22:22:51Z
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@hehemrin Signal is primarily built to be private (at the expense of interoperability), Matrix is primarily built to be interoperable (at the expense of privacy).
(DIR) Post #AQe2YwjjfKP6tU0TAW by count@flatline.club
2022-12-15T22:34:32Z
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@hehemrin @JoergSorge Matrix is decentralized and has had a few nasty (security, secrecy, privacy) bugs discovered lately, Signal is centralized and not full open source. Difficult. Threema is used by a lot of well-informed people.
(DIR) Post #AQe48kbaLb0VeEpaMK by yojimbo@hackers.town
2022-12-15T22:52:13Z
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@hehemrin For talking to my sisters, who only have a phone ... Signal.For talking to fellow hackers & internet people? Matrix if I want to have that chatroom immediacy 🙂 For talking to gamers? They're still on Discord and will stay there until costs get too high, which will happen one day. Then they'll all leave and go somewhere else that looks cool, regardless of whether is really is cool or not ...For talking to tech people who aren't hackers? They'll be on Slack because ... well, they don't really know but they use Slack all the time at work so the client is already installed and somehow they all think they can't have more than one app on their computers at a time ...
(DIR) Post #AQe55h5N4nyZokry5Y by hoergen@horche.demkontinuum.de
2022-12-15T23:02:48Z
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Ja.
(DIR) Post #AQeBM8SRft894Lsx72 by LivInTheLookingGlass@tech.lgbt
2022-12-16T00:13:05Z
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@hehemrin Pro for matrix: you can bridge other services to it, reducing the number of apps needed on your phone
(DIR) Post #AQekhVJFP9NWQ3VY48 by ludman1@social.tchncs.de
2022-12-16T06:49:07Z
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@hehemrin It is obvious.The question should be Signal vs Threema. Hier both are centralised.
(DIR) Post #AQeug1XhageRLpCZdI by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T08:40:53Z
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@hehemrin the decentralized nature of Matrix makes it much more resilient. If the Signal servers are switched off, no communication is possible anymoreBut contacts discovery is very complicated on a truely decentralized system. That makes the first minutes in the app very hard for non tech (how can I know which of my contacts are using Matrix?)Also the UX/UI of Signal is amazing, especially compared to other FOSSSo, as someone pragmatic who wants people to leave whatsapp, I recommend Signal
(DIR) Post #AQfLXGdsmKy2L18qlU by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T13:41:52Z
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@count @JoergSorge First time I hear, or not remember, Threema.
(DIR) Post #AQfLnTfO7eKDMiZk8m by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T13:44:48Z
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@ludman1 Aha, oki. This thread is first time I hear about Threema at all. My starting point for pros and cons are that both are used to chat-communicate; which means centralised can be a pro/con.
(DIR) Post #AQfO1DhSTyIdoBDz16 by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T08:29:41Z
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@Natureshadow @hehemrin If you don't tell where this is coming from, you're only spreading FUD here.
(DIR) Post #AQfO1EAsiZprHQzTsW by Natureshadow@floss.social
2022-12-16T08:36:54Z
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@fla @hehemrin I'm tired of doing basic research for Signal fanboys/fangirls.Start with finding out why Signal is not on F-Droid (Moxie menacing users who compile the Signal source code), continue with finding out that Signal client and server are irregular code dumps, then read on what Moxie says he will do if someone uses the Signal server code to run their own server (defederate them). Oh and crypto bullshit installed on user devices without asking.
(DIR) Post #AQfO1EfMtEDonzFpOi by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T08:45:30Z
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@Natureshadow @hehemrin And once again, no links to read about what you are affirming. So, FUD.First of all, Moxie is not managing OpenWhishperSystem anymore: https://signal.org/blog/new-year-new-ceo/Second of all, there was a time (a full year, that's big I agree) where the *server side* code was not available. This is not the case anymore: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server/commits/main and the client apps (all of them, Android, iOS and Desktop) were always available.Third (to be continued)
(DIR) Post #AQfO1FFshTQedEKzJI by KitKat@masthead.social
2022-12-16T13:17:01Z
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@fla @Natureshadow @hehemrin do you know what FUD means?
(DIR) Post #AQfO1FroQRloWs5HQu by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T14:09:40Z
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@KitKat @fla @Natureshadow No, I do not know what FUD means.
(DIR) Post #AQfO1JGjmEUT52ljCS by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T08:48:14Z
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@Natureshadow @hehemrin Third, they are indeed not super fine with 3rd party client. As someone who contributed to one for months (Axolotl: https://github.com/nanu-c/axolotl) I was initially very mad about it. But then I realized something. We are constantly trying to catch up with what they do, reimplementing features without real tests. Obviously, our code is not audited, even if available. So, the security of our project is super bad, and other Signal users have no way to know this.To be continued
(DIR) Post #AQfO1LJIBhirPXynSa by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T08:52:56Z
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@Natureshadow @hehemrin That means all my contacts *thought* they were talking with me securely while all their messages could have been intercepted because of me using a unsecured 3rd party client. Because Signal is first of all about security, I understand why OWS is mad about us.I know the Signal code base quite well. I spent weeks reading it and reimplementing it. OWS isn't perfect. Nobody is. But it's 99 times better than whatsapp, and we should encourage people to use Signal.
(DIR) Post #AQfPvwhITCwpXIlIEC by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T14:31:09Z
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@fla Pragmatism is often important! I am interested in privacy and security, I indeed know some but is not at all an expert. In reality, it mean I use SMS, iMessage, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, LinkedIn messenger, and probably more. And I do also use Signal and Matrix, but not so often, because the primary goal is the communication with the specific person. But when I can choose, and nudge other, I prefer one Signal and Matrix, of those above. That is shortly my background to the question.
(DIR) Post #AQfPyQxavNULyRZU0m by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T14:31:36Z
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@fla Pragmatism is often important! I am interested in privacy and security, I indeed know some but is not at all an expert. In reality, it mean I use SMS, iMessage, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, LinkedIn messenger, and probably more. And I do also use Signal and Matrix, but not so often, because the primary goal is the communication with the specific person. But when I can choose, and nudge other, I prefer one Signal and Matrix, of those above. That is shortly my background to the question.
(DIR) Post #AQfawbCCzpr2dUjbSC by fla@mastodon.social
2022-12-16T16:34:29Z
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@hehemrin @KitKat @Natureshadow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubtand yes KitKat I know the expressions I use. If someone is affirming things without any source / links or having lived it themselves, then it's FUD.
(DIR) Post #AQfjdrwfOiukfVbnfc by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T18:11:59Z
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@LivInTheLookingGlass As I understand, the End to end eencryption is broken over the bridge. If I understand correctly, have you seen that as an issue? (still better than no encryption at all, of course, but in comparison to no break)
(DIR) Post #AQfntrc2nlzu5RqRyS by LivInTheLookingGlass@tech.lgbt
2022-12-16T18:59:41Z
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@hehemrin honestly I don't mind it. I assume if it is on Discord it isn't private, and on Telegram that it's reasonably so. Those are the only services I bridge so far
(DIR) Post #AQfp2trDvOv3bqol3w by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T19:12:32Z
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@LivInTheLookingGlass Oki, fair. For me, I haven't tried bridge (I use Matrix but not much yet), if I try I think it will firstly be WhatsApp.
(DIR) Post #AQfxBwPEcNARklY3Gq by katzenberger@social.tchncs.de
2022-12-16T20:43:46Z
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@hehemrin It's not about one size fits all, their #purposes are different:- #Signal works well as a replacement for #WhatsApp - #Matrix works well as a replacement for #Slack It's not about highlighting a few features or deficiencies that allegedly render either Signal or Matrix "superior" or "useless".
(DIR) Post #AQg3fYWGajw85CLGDY by count@flatline.club
2022-12-16T21:56:21Z
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@hehemrin @JoergSorge that's actually quite interesting - they're not trying to fly under the RADAR at all, and given that you seem to be from the industry I'd have expected you to have encountered them one way or another 🤔
(DIR) Post #AQg7mOUoekrMq7BCXw by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-16T22:42:27Z
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@count @JoergSorge Rather telecom partly with IT-related job tasks - but tools at work are out of my control... so it is much Microsoft etc. But as person, I am relatively interested in privacy and security, open source, Linux etc, which of course has relation to work but also private life, where the tools we talk about now belong.
(DIR) Post #AQgDgTL0LEAhqM9Lt2 by ludman1@social.tchncs.de
2022-12-16T23:48:35Z
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@hehemrin Personally I have no Sygnal registration. However I am familar with their functionality. But I host myself a Matrix server for my family and friends. For me this is the most important - can you hosted it yourself.If someday I can not self-host anymore, then will definitely choose Threema instead Sygnal.+ threema is Swiss based. Outside of EU.+ you have to pay for this app, so they can support themselfs without sell your data+ well audited from independent orgs.
(DIR) Post #AQgIkgLcPcvr7dGPz6 by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-17T00:45:24Z
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@count @JoergSorge Rather telecom have been my area, partly with ex internal IT-tool owner. But standard tools have been out of my control... so typical tools like Microsoft etc. But as person, I am interested in privacy and security, open source, Linux etc.
(DIR) Post #AQiAdhN1ni8Gwx0BYe by chris@bol.social
2022-12-17T22:22:48Z
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@hehemrin @matrix Pros: decentralized Matrix (like Fediverse/Mastodon)Cons: centralized Signal (like Twitter/Elon)
(DIR) Post #AQjEQM6CAckwBgyuwq by Janina@mstdn.social
2022-12-18T10:41:00Z
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@hehemrin Check:securemessagingapps.comand rate the security 🟩=3 🟨=1 🟥=0Results: 1. Threema = 822. Session = 793. Signal = 774. Matrix / Element = 585. WhatsApp = 346. Telegram = 29You see: Both bad compared with Threema !All traffic of the SignalApp goes over the Clouds of Amazon,Google,Microsoft & Cloudflare.= US (Spy) Cloud-Acthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_ActMatrix & Element are financed by Amdocs:A Company which collects your MetaData
(DIR) Post #AQjXw5TDQfdl0harM8 by cherti@chaos.social
2022-12-18T14:19:38Z
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@hehemrin Bridges do remove end2end encryption, so only ever use them with non-encrypted services or at the very least communicate to your communication partners that you are breaking the e2ee that they might expect and assume to be present.(Or just don't bridge end2end encrypted services, and use their original clients, those bridges are typically also noticably less secure than the original clients.)
(DIR) Post #AQmQ6ki2k1w7eEz1wu by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-19T23:36:05Z
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Thank you all who have answered my question in this thread (Pros and cons; Signal versus Matrix?)! Answers have included Threema is the answer. I have gained new knowledge and thoughts. Thanks! #Signal #Matrix #Threema
(DIR) Post #AQmQgylvvxa9gi4qps by adam@social.librem.one
2022-12-19T23:42:38Z
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@hehemrin You could also just use the messaging platform that works with literally everybody with an internet connection. https://pocketnow.com/10-ways-delta-chat-is-better-than-whatsapp-signal-and-telegram/
(DIR) Post #AQmRrUcUTnTPJOEnJo by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-19T23:55:44Z
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@adam Thanks, yes, maybe Delta is the answer.
(DIR) Post #AQnCyrfbsCH2fpiJ8K by Janina@mstdn.social
2022-12-20T08:43:41Z
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@hehemrin @adam Delta runs on Email.And Email leaks your MetadataDelta is financed by the otf - which money comes from the us goverment:https://www.opentech.fund/results/supported-projects/delta-chat/Better take a look at Threema = never leak or collect metadata!
(DIR) Post #AQnQ1ZKJpRYO3VNI7k by adam@social.librem.one
2022-12-20T11:09:52Z
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@JaninaDoesn't TLS with DNSSEC & DANE mitigate the metadata leakage problem? @hehemrin
(DIR) Post #AQqBkpiqnis46Br3NQ by KitKat@masthead.social
2022-12-21T14:37:53Z
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@katzenberger @hehemrin do you have a source for the purpose of Matrixafaik it doesn't have anything to do with Slack
(DIR) Post #AQqBkqCyzgyRbdx7LM by katzenberger@social.tchncs.de
2022-12-21T14:44:57Z
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@KitKat Not sure what you mean by "source" here. I just find that #spaces and #rooms in #Matrix make a good replacement for #teams and #channels in #Slack.I find that the purpose of Matrix is to provide spaces for people with a shared interest, with them not necessarily being known in person to each other.The purpose of Signal, to me, is to enable conversations within groups that would typically share phone numbers in real life (families, parent groups, etc.).@hehemrin
(DIR) Post #AQqBkqbRWkXWpVOeTA by KitKat@masthead.social
2022-12-21T18:40:19Z
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@katzenberger @hehemrin The purpose of Matrix:"Matrix is an open standard for interoperable, decentralised, real-time communication over IP- there exists an open standard in the form of the Matrix Specification- it's interoperable, meaning it is designed to interoperate with other communication systems, and being an Open Standard means it's easy to see how to interoperate with it
(DIR) Post #AQqBkrAtOwtcbRyxiy by KitKat@masthead.social
2022-12-21T18:40:38Z
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@katzenberger @hehemrin - Matrix is decentralised, which means there is no central point - anyone can host their own server and have control over their data- it is designed to function in real-time, which means it is ideal for building systems that require immediate exchange of data, such as Instant Messaging"
(DIR) Post #AQqBkrkLH9FiNOZGym by hehemrin@social.librem.one
2022-12-21T19:14:04Z
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@KitKat @katzenberger I have never used Slack, but I read it as Slack is similar to Facebook groups. Matrix - built for "realtime", I feel that is similar to Signal and Facebook Messenger and Fb Groups. (I bring in Fb as comparison as it is a sw I use frequently). Pro for Fb is that very many use it, a con is its privacy. I understand the purpose difference view by katzenberger for Matrix and Signal, seems reasonable, at the same time seems as both can do both.