Post AQY3q0yi5D6PyexCl6 by stingray@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by stingray@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #AQXwk9NDG29ob8fgeG by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-12T23:56:44.283517Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Is anyone knowledgeable on Munchausen's by proxy? How common is it? I'm trying specifically to understand how common it is for parents who have MBP to induce illness in their children, and how common it is for their methods to go undetected. How far can these things go before doctors, teachers, or some other professional and/or mandated reporter notices something is amiss, rather than that a child is deeply ill?Not looking for speculation on the parents of "trans" kids -- you're preaching to the choir here -- I'm looking to better understand a specific person in my life who exhibits a lot of red flag behavior and who has two trans-identified children and one child who is -- to all appearances -- ill with a rare condition that causes a variety of cascading issues, and requires the use of a wheelchair and regular doctor visits. I've given this person the benefit of a doubt and been burned too many times, so I am starting to wonder whether this is legit.
(DIR) Post #AQXxUtKEk1iYR7ZELw by ArtistBristol@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T00:09:33.143781Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost Here's a UK article estimating 500 cases a year going undetected.https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/what-munchausen-syndrome-proxy-who-14323569
(DIR) Post #AQXyM9oCBhfkuEymTw by Marvin@fans.sonichu.com
2022-12-13T00:16:59.385723Z
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I don't know how formally it's been studied.Unfortunately, MBP and things similar to it seem to be more of an internal industry concept than something that's regularly diagnosed on paper. (I wonder if insurance companies even have codes for MBP?)If the proxy munchie is serious and careful in their methods, I think they can go pretty much indefinitely without getting caught. (There's quite a few serious disorders that rely solely on patient complaints to diagnose. Thus no evidence to challenge.)Consider Dee Dee Blanchard. She kept her shtick up until her daughter and daughter's weird internet boyfriend murdered her. (btw The Act is a fantastic watch, highly recommend it)A great example of a successful munchie (not MBP, but I think still relevant) is Fit Vegan Ginger: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/anna-johnson-the-fit-vegan-ginger-creation-nutrition-annas-organics-lynchburg.14839/She clearly has some deep running issues with her body, probably due to her strict Christian upbringing. She managed to induce digestive issues in herself that were serious enough that she was able to get a doctor to install a fucking stoma.If you're dedicated enough and careful enough to pick the right disorders, you can bullshit doctors into giving you all the pills and surgeries you want.Really, that's the main reason these weirdos get caught. It's not that the path to munchie "success" didn't exist, it was that they bit off more than they could chew and got caught in some technicality.
(DIR) Post #AQXynWr2bzHCCUMW1I by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T00:22:57.825477Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Marvin thank you for the reply! I'll give the cases you mention a read.
(DIR) Post #AQY3q0yi5D6PyexCl6 by stingray@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:18:49.798019Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost I'm not an expert, but I do have a morbid interest in munchies. Fortunately, munching by proxy is pretty rare as far as anyone knows (estimated to be like 1 in every 200,000 kids. It's a little higher for babies, probably because babies are easier to control/can't communicate as well.). One paper I looked at said there are about 600 cases in the U.S. per year and it takes on average 1.8 years of bullshit for doctors to catch on.I say "as far as anyone knows" regarding the rate of munching because it's hard to pin down exactly how prevalent it is and how many cases are missed. Sometimes a kid who's presumed to be munched has a legitimate problem and the doctor is just being an asshole or the parent isn't communicating well. Most of what we know about MSBP is based on studies of individual, especially insane cases where it absolutely can't be denied (see Lacey Spears).As for actually inducing symptoms in kids rather than just lying a lot or tampering with things like urine samples, no one can seem to agree how common it is. I've seen studies give ranges from 20% to 60% of munchie parents purposely inducing symptoms in kids (mostly via poisoning or asphyxiation) which is a useless range. :blobfoxthink:
(DIR) Post #AQY3q3DJlryYuXnto0 by polarisera@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:20:35.526930Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stingray @operaghost Do you suppose their is some magic mount olympus where the gods of probability dispense the distributions of human beings ? If you don't, stress and environment can create an unlimited number.
(DIR) Post #AQY4VFHtmlBMELacWu by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T00:03:00.280299Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost The mother of David Challoner had her children by her first husband removed from her care. She was taking them to hospitals in the UK and abroad to have cancer-causing investigations done. Children by her second husband also spent time in care, Davd became Amy. Husband imprisoned for 18 years for vile sexual attacks on a young girl.
(DIR) Post #AQY4ZV0fH0GE9LYaJs by xzy45@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T00:32:55.392178Z
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@operaghost its just another mental illness, brought on by child cruelty, and its probably more common than is realised.Some conditions you can only 'see' real close up. Are you close enough do you think that you would have really seen this?I mean a lot of the parents involved are just common or garden fools, who follow the current trend is all.
(DIR) Post #AQY4ZVWvL445lOeLbM by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:00:50.926371Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@xzy45 I had a very close view of this person, the children, and the dynamic in the family home, for almost a year. I've since distanced myself because this person assaulted me and then attempted to extort me. During that time, I saw several things that made me skeptical, but also other things that made me believe the kid was really sick. The other two kids and their gender stuff are also pushed on them by this person, and I don't need any confirmation of that (I've seen enough to convince me). But what I worry about is the kid who has symptoms of a genuine illness, as well as (to all appearances) a diagnosis and regular doctor visits. I just have such a hard time swallowing that this person who is clearly forcing gender onto their other two children in order to get attention as the parent of trans kids, somehow rolled the dice and got a third child who has a serious disease that affects like... 1 in 70,000 people.
(DIR) Post #AQY4rbQg8zk5GwMCdk by xzy45@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:07:41.889507Z
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@operaghost I also think there are more general concerns around her behaviour as she assaulted you. I know it doesn't mean she hits the children, but its more likely. Was it something you reported at the time?
(DIR) Post #AQY4rbyM7mgGxO768G by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:16:16.406582Z
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@xzy45 No, I never reported it. I have never seen any sign of violence toward the children, and though I suppose it is possible, I think it's unlikely. A large part of this person's performance revolves around being a hyper-vigilant, attentive parent. The children's other parent was abusive, but hasn't been in the picture for several years.
(DIR) Post #AQY4rcUGDACYYL2ZrU by xzy45@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:21:08.531875Z
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@operaghost that would be your concern then, how far that hyper-vigilance and over-attention goes, are you saying the illness is genuine or not?
(DIR) Post #AQY4rcxKT5SC0UdnAe by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:27:21.497218Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@xzy45 I'm saying I don't know whether the illness is real. All I have is what the caregiver says and my own observations of the kid's health (tired, some pain that comes and goes). I've never been in a room with a doctor and the child, and I've never seen the more acute phases of illness that supposedly prompted him to be taken in for diagnosis. Supposedly his kidneys are failing and he requires a dozen medications and doctors every month. I'm trying to figure out if the the kid's fatigue and pain are normal growth spurts being embellished by his caregiver into a fake diagnosis of a rare disease, or if he has the disease claimed by his caregiver, or if his caregiver is artificially inducing symptoms of the disease in order to fool doctors and bystanders like myself.I suppose at the end of the day this is the domain of child services. I just have zero faith in my locale's department. I know they've been called on this person in the past, in regard to their trans children. And this person whipped up a huge legal shitstorm until they backed down. It's an incredibly trans-friendly area, so there is definitely a protective glitter shield around this person and the kids.
(DIR) Post #AQY4rdQOj0hpSeF0To by Biff@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:29:55.667219Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost @xzy45 It sounds really concerning. Have you considered making an anonymous report to your local child protective service so they can investigate?
(DIR) Post #AQY4ryXYDbuCwukW2q by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:19:10.456246Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost @xzy45 No chance that they are tampering with the child’s food or supplements?
(DIR) Post #AQY4rz3oHfi4YxqHKK by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:29:04.432480Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@AnneBevan @xzy45 Its entirely possible, they have complete control over the kid's environment. That's basically what worries me.
(DIR) Post #AQY4sxRHnW8hp9HsFU by stingray@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T01:25:55.468668Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@polarisera @operaghost Dionysus and Artemis play craps to determine the rate of munching in the human population. Everybody knows this.
(DIR) Post #AQZ8RXAxvhS3WfnBjc by AnneBevan@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T13:41:57.233700Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@operaghost @xzy45 Are there any grandparents or aunts who could visit the child? Soial services might not ignore them. Failing kidneys is very worrying. I believe that poisoning children with salt is one of the commonest Munchausen signs.
(DIR) Post #AQZAfkudqyXQ5m4A6a by operaghost@spinster.xyz
2022-12-13T14:08:14.868857Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@AnneBevan @xzy45 No extended family -- this person has gone to great lengths to cut their biological family completely out of their life. Which has been a red flag from the start for me, tbh. Thank you for the tip about salt poisoning. I have no idea how someone would go about inducing any symptoms of kidney disease and/or failure, or how someone would even go about finding that information. Would that kind of thing show up on a test? Or would the test results just show all the signs of kidney failure?