Post AQXznOff8bSUm2Xar2 by JonKramer@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by JonKramer@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AQXgrMtLnRrbHj7iPA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:03:03Z
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TIL the term "Semite" refers to both Jews and Arabs collectively.
(DIR) Post #AQXhVLsKzj21iSiPUu by tonic@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:10:20Z
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Ok so what’s the name for the antisemitism where semites hate Jews ?
(DIR) Post #AQXhfnhQOtKguGaqS8 by pokerface@sfba.social
2022-12-12T21:12:13Z
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@freemo Every day's a school day.
(DIR) Post #AQXifxPGPSmixzjlDM by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:23:26Z
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@freemo Really? So, by that logic, Islamophobia is antisemitic?
(DIR) Post #AQXiiBFRuwvoTWCs4m by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:23:49Z
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@LouisIngenthron Yup, sure is.
(DIR) Post #AQXitXtW3lHlteMoGe by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:25:54Z
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@freemo Hmm, interesting. So, I wonder what the more specific term would be. Antijudaic?
(DIR) Post #AQXivqTZwcVS6cKcC0 by mathlover@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:26:19Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo That I think might be a good word for this tbh
(DIR) Post #AQXj1gbZYdzjEEr6uW by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:27:21Z
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@LouisIngenthron Interestingly despite a semite including all speakers of a semetic language, including jews and arabs, in general practice antisemite refers exclusively to jews... very confusing I know.
(DIR) Post #AQXj6z2WRgRZqnzGSG by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:28:20Z
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@freemo I mean, I guess if I can live with "inflammable" and "flammable" meaning the same thing, then I can live with that, lol.
(DIR) Post #AQXjNiw1Zm0WpEvjRA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:31:19Z
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@LouisIngenthron Irregardless to common sense it seems anti-semite is defined regardless of the definition of semite. This may make conversations about the subject a bit inflammable!
(DIR) Post #AQXjvweL5iiTCsyZTk by pokerface@sfba.social
2022-12-12T21:37:30Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron I tried combining pasta with antipasta. The results were disappointing.
(DIR) Post #AQXjymRfUH9mQYOwAC by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:38:02Z
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@pokerface Last time I tried that I blew up half a city block... consider yourself lucky if it was disapointing :)@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQXktKfNRPKImLmOHo by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:48:16Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron I have never understood this. It gets more confusing when the Ashkenazi are Mediterranean Greek ancestry, and not Semitic. I had someone try to explain how "jewish" was both an ethnicity and a religion once, but the argument seemed to revolve around ignoring testable objective reality.
(DIR) Post #AQXl1tQs48EYv84ntg by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T21:49:48Z
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@JonKramer My understanding of "Semetic" is that it includes anyone who speaks a semetic language. So your ethnicity probably has little to do with it.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQXm5DejQnlCSvi3ma by pokerface@sfba.social
2022-12-12T22:01:33Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron *sigh* only half a block
(DIR) Post #AQXoKzoGsWZo42p2nI by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T22:26:53Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , it's ethnic groups who speak a Semitic language, it doesn't apply to individuals and what they speak. Or it's the Jewish faith, somehow, which is an exception to the general rule of how groups are classified. It really doesn't make much sense, which is to be expected I guess, since the whole concept of different ethnicities and races of people is mostly just a way to justify racism.
(DIR) Post #AQXs2plTt1RfVx71qC by ligthert@mastodon.nl
2022-12-12T23:08:24Z
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@freemo I know, don't use Wikipedia as a source. But its late, and I am lazy. So the rabbit hole led me to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peoplesSorry to add to the confusion...
(DIR) Post #AQXsRLDgabZO1IzVC4 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:12:49Z
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@ligthert wikipedia is a great source.. its just that like any source you need to review its citations to determine what weight to give it.
(DIR) Post #AQXtE72E7JDADSt3AW by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T22:04:41Z
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@JonKramer @freemo It's a common argument. Even the Wikipedia page calls the Jewish people an "ethnoreligious" group.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
(DIR) Post #AQXtE7ac3SiVw6yVlY by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:20:13Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , yes, it seems to be common. My confusion is why it's common, but only for Jewish peoples. There has to be some historic reason that just stuck, but since the whole silly history of the theory of different races is fairly new, it doesn't seem to have had time to stick.
(DIR) Post #AQXtE808WZ8LDGutY8 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:21:38Z
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@JonKramer It would seem its common among muslims as well.. I have often seen muslims as being referred to as an ethnic group as well.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQXtN0LQMQxi4Z6f5c by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:23:17Z
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@freemo @JonKramer Hindus and Buddhists as well. Many religions are closely intertwined with ethnic groups.
(DIR) Post #AQXuvUqnXwSSU9nBVA by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:40:43Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , yep. But in the case of Islam, there isn't a majority of the people who are from what apparently is a totally separate ethnic group, claiming to be Arab. But yes, there is some level of the same treatment there.
(DIR) Post #AQXvu9lWYRxYkvFZwG by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:31:14Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , No argument with Hindus and Buddhists. But how do a bunch of ethnic Greeks call themselves middle eastern Semitic people? That makes as much sense to me as a bunch of Irish guys suddenly deciding they are Sub-Saharan Africans.
(DIR) Post #AQXvuAKGTHkUUfVK5Y by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:37:01Z
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@JonKramer @freemo In the modern sense, while ethnoreligious groups were founded on ethnic and religious commonalities, today, they seem to be more inclusive (i.e. either/or instead of both/and). "Jewish" can refer equally to a devout Hassidic Jew as it can to a nonbeliever with Jewish parents. The commonality these days is a shared cultural background. Back to the previous example, both the strictest practitioners and the non-practitioners can attend a Bar Mitzvah together and discuss matters with the same cultural context, despite their wide gulf in religious belief.
(DIR) Post #AQXvuAqWXLYM6ib5N2 by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:42:26Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , Absolutely. The common cultural background is unquestionably there, but the ethnic background isn't.
(DIR) Post #AQXvuBMmbPMDilgqeW by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:48:44Z
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@JonKramer @freemo Sure it is. What do you think ethnic means?
(DIR) Post #AQXvuBmJ4Vm2zvdER6 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-12T23:51:36Z
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@LouisIngenthron I think most people erroneously think ethnic = race not culture.@JonKramer
(DIR) Post #AQXznOff8bSUm2Xar2 by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:35:16Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , my error, I intended to use the word "ethnicity" not "ethnic"
(DIR) Post #AQXzsDApJPSAYzPgno by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:36:06Z
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@JonKramer That wouldnt change anything.. ethnicity is just the noun form of ethnic, it still refers to culture not race.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY07JnqwipFT4s4a8 by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:38:52Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , Ethnicity has the connotation of genetic background, not just cultural similarities. Often this IS a synonym for "race".https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ethnicity
(DIR) Post #AQY0QJ3Tx1gEeOEfqq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:42:17Z
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@JonKramer That link provides a definition which makes it clear it is cultural and not race (race is not listed).. it only provides a "usage note" pointing to race, doesnt say, at least at that link, that it is a synonym.You also have to keep in mind you cant use synonyms to imply additional definitions.. synonyms often list words of similar but different definitions, they arent usually entierly interchangable. So even if it was listed as a synonym (sometyhing you will probably find in some thesaurus that istn a good way to determine word usage.)@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY0UnVmelVAGfcCYq by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:43:07Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , it is an interesting side topic, and this is a good place to read more, but my reference was for genetics, not shared love of types of music, clothing, or foods. https://www.dictionary.com/e/race-vs-ethnicity/#:~:text=Where%20does%20ethnicity%20come%20from,meaning%20%E2%80%9Cnation%2C%20people.%E2%80%9D
(DIR) Post #AQY0vyeZL8j6drgVgu by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:48:03Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron At worst, I used the vernacular, in describing a concept with no rational basis, "race", using the word "ethnicity" to attempt to imply I was indicating a genetic link of family origins over relatively short evolutionary periods. If anyone doesn't understand my point, I guess I can expend on it, if requested.
(DIR) Post #AQY0yZjmQvYgEeMRfM by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:48:29Z
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@JonKramer Better to use the word race then... what you are really asking is why are jews often considered a race and not just a religion? I think its complicated.. a **lot** of jews have shared racial origins, but being a displaced people those origins are fuzzy.. whey have fled and integrated and thus have a much more diverse racial background than many. Its probably better to say they are a collection of races that become isolated and displaced so while still having a lot of racial commonality there is also a huge amount of racial diversity.In short, Jews mostly refuse to give up their racial identity entierly despite being displaced since anctient times@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY11pHl5BAVKEnv28 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T00:49:04Z
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@JonKramer Your choice of words just lead to a bit of inaccuracy, easily addressed now that its clear what you meant.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY2HBBu1KBRYuwxl2 by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:03:04Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron I intentionally tried to avoid the word "race", since as I previously noted, the word is a recent creation designed to create a hierarchy of fitness of the different genetic groups. A hierarchy that I think objectively does not exist, and can not exist.
(DIR) Post #AQY2SUeW0Gap6ejDBA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:05:05Z
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@JonKramer Whether talking abpit race is important or not is questionable, doesnt change the fact that you were talking about race just trying to call it something its not. If your talking genetic insularity, you are talking about race. Science avoids race because its problematic, but it does recognize its a concept with some relevance (like determining prevelance to certain diseases).@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY3pvw2ph02KwfVPU by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:20:33Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , The Online Etymology Dictionary uses this: "In 19c. also "a group regarded as forming a distinctive ethnic stock" (German, Greeks, etc.). "Note the use of the term "ethnic". We are talking about words that have very little scientific meaning, but have emotional roots in overt racism, which by default, I try to avoid. I assure you, I understand the root words, the basic concepts, how it is used in science, the implications when it comes to genetic disease, etc. My error was using "ethnic background" when I meant "ethnicity" because I was not attempting to discuss social behavior identification, but genetics. I assure you I was intentionally NOT talking about 'race.' My point was that there seems to be very limited examples of other disparate genetic groups that attempt to identify with a single genetic group based on a shared religion of part of that original genetic group. https://www.etymonline.com/word/race
(DIR) Post #AQY49SetONpnKQxPIu by mediocreape@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:24:04Z
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@freemo the literal definition of 'Semitic' refers to contemporary ethnonationalities which share a root in the ancient Semitic family of language groups. The meaning of 'antisemitic' uses the sadly more common definition of 'semitic', which was popularised by German nationalist pseudoscientists and philosophers to negatively contrast "the semites" to the 'superior' aryan races. To be correct in your usage, anti-Semitisim would refer to antipathy towards contemporary ethonationalities which share a root in the ancient Semitic family of language groups which does indeed incorporate many Arabic and African ethnonationalities, but "antisemitism" refers to the more specific historical context of specific anti-Jewish sentiment. The elision of the historical context is a common trope of antisemetic rhetoric, along with 'well, actually, hitler was jewish".
(DIR) Post #AQY4fVusoaGYhQijaq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:29:53Z
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@JonKramer Ethnic refers to groups with common cultures, which generally means tight knit German for example can refer to ethnic germans, racial germans, or people of German nationality.. in this case they clearly point out they are talking about ethinic germans (shared culture) not racial.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY4sCDrLcTNNtdzIO by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:31:40Z
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@JonKramer @freemo My guess (and I could be very wrong about this) is that the ambiguity stems from racists using "ethnicity" as a dog whistle / proximal term for "race" for so long that it eventually just evolved meanings in common English.Kind of like how "ignorant" has come to mean something closer to "indignant" in common usage.Or like how "groomer" used to refer exclusively to predatory pedophiles, but now it's nearly equivalent to "faggot".For how much bigots tend to claim to be "conservative", they sure do a lot of damage to the English language.
(DIR) Post #AQY55mVhk335h4T80e by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:34:38Z
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@freemo @JonKramer Right, but those variations of "german" are all still considered different words, hence your difference in capitalization.As I understand it, though, the term "Jewish" refers to *both* those who are of the culture *and* those who are of the faith simultaneously. Hence, "ethno-religious" group.
(DIR) Post #AQY5FuDfvxm2V0rb60 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:36:26Z
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@LouisIngenthron Yes, but you have to keep in mind from the perspective of most jews (I live in Israel for a year now, so just my impresion) the religion is the culture.. Even people who are not religious jews will follow most of the religious traditions... So even for them in practice their religion and their ethnicity are almost the same thing.
(DIR) Post #AQY5fBq9YedWO7ux7o by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:34:11Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , I strongly agree with that statement, and by default will avoid the term "race" when I firmly believe that there is but one race, all of humanity.
(DIR) Post #AQY5fCEG71v1atCChM by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:38:35Z
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@JonKramer @freemo See, I have to disagree with that. Just because race doesn't have anything to do with science doesn't mean it doesn't exist.Race is like money. It only matters because it matters to people.But, so long as it does matter to people, it needs to be acknowledged and addressed, not ignored.In other words, I'd prefer a world where we're not "one race", but rather we celebrate the many races that comprise the greater whole of humanity.
(DIR) Post #AQY5fCdma8Kqs38aTw by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:40:59Z
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@LouisIngenthron Race has **little** to do with science, but not **nothing**...Race is often important for doctors to asses the risk of disease for a patient. For example a black patient is far more likely to be considered for sickle cell anemia should he/she have related symptoms.That said race is not particularly important outside of a few things like that.@JonKramer
(DIR) Post #AQY5rsAY0Pyf8zVL2O by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:43:19Z
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@freemo I haven't been to Israel, so I certainly can't speak to that, but over here, it's more of an identity than a religion. It can almost be boiled down to "which holiday do you celebrate in December?"I.e. Even as a full-on atheist, I still celebrate some of the Christian holidays because of culture rather than religion. And many of the non-practicing Jewish folks I know are the same way. They don't ever go to temple, but they still go to mitzvahs and weddings.
(DIR) Post #AQY5yrpzdXPY8vE3Fo by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:44:35Z
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@freemo @JonKramer Right, of course. And, as I know from *M*A*S*H* (lol), primaquine can have negative effects on people of African or Mediterranean descent.
(DIR) Post #AQY604rggeKWptaxo8 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:44:47Z
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@LouisIngenthron christiaanity is just as much a ethnoreligion as jews are.. in fact you just described it: I.e. Even as a full-on atheist, I still celebrate some of the Christian holidays because of cultureYou are ethnically christian, but your “religion” is atheist (or lack of a religion).
(DIR) Post #AQY667o6f1HfhNntmy by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:44:32Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , I see your point, but I can't get past the idea that the term was popularized by people who thought they could determine the intelligence of different sub groups of humanity by locating bumps on their heads. Phrenology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology#Racism
(DIR) Post #AQY668Dz6nz4zduZ7o by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:45:52Z
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@JonKramer The idea of Race can and has been abused... that is a shame, but it doesnt stop race from existing. It does however remind us we have to be **very** carefully how we use race when it comes to science.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY6h6I9G3BHiHUFpA by mediocreape@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:52:34Z
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@freemo @JonKramer @LouisIngenthron Are humans the only species for which it is appropriate to use the word 'race'? If so, why?
(DIR) Post #AQY6pykAgsOguSpOrY by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:54:10Z
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@freemo In some ways, yes. But I think there’s a big difference in that Christianity is much more aggressive about converting people of different ethnicities than Judaism is.So, while the Jewish people do have subsets (like the Ashkenazi), it’s nowhere near as diverse in culture as Christianity is (mostly because of just how far Christian missionaries will go to convert very foreign people).For example, pretty much everyone who celebrates Hanukkah does so with roughly the same rituals, right?Contrast that against this page on Wikipedia with how differently people celebrate Christianity’s prime holiday by country:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observance_of_Christmas_by_country
(DIR) Post #AQY7aNPPJoFcjCEwQS by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-12-13T01:58:59Z
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@JonKramer @freemo If you let "invented by a bad person" stop you, then you'd have to give up half of the comforts of the modern era.That's why I'd rather reclaim them for something better and more optimistic.
(DIR) Post #AQY7aNrPdgeW83LJ4q by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:01:18Z
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@LouisIngenthron @freemo , I feel there are some concepts which are best forgotten. Not repurposed, but flatly ignored until they are not even memories.
(DIR) Post #AQY7aOMblhbdgnwDhY by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:02:31Z
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@JonKramer If we took this advice hundreds of thousands of africans would die as I previously explained... That doesnt sound like a prudent thing to do... though as I said it should be treated with extreme caution.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY8OxD6U1lWFAbOdM by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:11:42Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , that can be avoided by looking at genetics, and not thinking of Africans as a different race separate from the rest of humanity. It's a matter of perspective.
(DIR) Post #AQY8UswrF5QglLpcP2 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:12:45Z
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@JonKramer That solution isnt availible to the vast majority of africans, and while I'm all for trying to bring it to them, it isnt.. Which means they would die all the same due to lack of access and you taking away the one cheap measure they have (looking at race).@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY8tssscNELnrtKOe by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:17:18Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron , good point. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good, as the saying goes. I'm not sure I can eliminate the dissonance that exists in me regarding this topic.
(DIR) Post #AQY93uG4MdlcxcW7G4 by kjr@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:19:06Z
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@mathlover @LouisIngenthron @freemo it is not exactly the same. Antisemitism has a racial origin and is name came from the League of Antisemites. It is the precursor of the European racial laws. Conversion to other religion doesn't change the status, and Chistians were killed for being Jews, even nuns.Anti-Judaism or Judeophobia is a term existing in Christianity, more religious than political. Conversion to Cristianity changed the status.About Arabs as Semitic.. it is so relevant like to say that Roma are Arians, no part of the equation and more a modern retorical trick to end discussions without contrasting arguments.Members of the League of Antisemites and organizations near from it were present in Islamic organizations too (mostly Egypt and Bosnia) and Arab nationalist organizations (mostly Baath).
(DIR) Post #AQY99A6mrQ2tZEgJ3A by freemo@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:20:01Z
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@JonKramer yes we have to be careful not to let ideologically pure eyes cause real harm to the people we are trying to look out for... it can be counter-intuitive but we do it all the time.@LouisIngenthron
(DIR) Post #AQY9LyZH4yc7XW7Ggi by JonKramer@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:22:23Z
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@freemo @LouisIngenthron I have read many articles on this topic:https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/opinion-saying-i-dont-see-color-denies-the-racial-identity-of-students/2020/02
(DIR) Post #AQY9bUZYMyRN8xe4gK by mathlover@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:25:10Z
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@kjr @LouisIngenthron @freemo This is a great summary. This makes the distinction in terminology, and the reasons for it, quite clear.Since people just hating Jews, Arabs, and other Semitic language speakers/groups collectively purely on the basis of their linguistic/cultural affinity is probably not a thing that happens to any significant degree, and since when it comes to real world Nazis and other bigoted, racist asshats, anti-Semitism in practice is always targeted at a racial category designed to consist specifically of Jews in the broadest sense, I can see why the term has a *slightly* different sense than what one would expect from the prefix and original word alone.
(DIR) Post #AQYBxUSnefZv5K6Ut6 by kjr@qoto.org
2022-12-13T02:51:33Z
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@mathlover @LouisIngenthron @freemo yes, the argument that "Arabs are semites too" usually heard after antisemitic attacks, is just a ethimoligical trick. Los of words have difference senses, but.... if one engages to promote the Society of Ornitologs" is a socialist? The president of a community of propietaries is a communist?In the 30s the use of anti-semite was not problematic in intellectual grous in the League of Muslims in Egypt.About nazis.... is complicate, Marr, the founder of the League of Antisemites was an anarcho-syndicalist, although later moved to the right wing and had influence in proto-Nazi groups. Marxists were present at the beginning too.Catholics opposed antisemitism since the beginning, Anti-Judaism after Concilium Vatican II, although it was already quite deprecated.
(DIR) Post #AQYuQKv2cGDbrdsX6e by toiletpaper@shitposter.club
2022-12-13T11:09:49.445901Z
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pretty much guaranteed that the cultural holidays being celebrated are actually pagan in origin, and since christianity couldn't stamp it out, they coopted it. that's by far the norm. so you're not celebrating christian holidays. you're celebrating secular pagan holidays.
(DIR) Post #AQZ3w3pwYuEfjrhEsS by voidabyss@qoto.org
2022-12-13T12:54:23Z
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@toiletpaper @freemo @LouisIngenthron This is an very interesting 🎓
(DIR) Post #AQZAYMCVKj63QFtRiq by NecroKvntPuke@freespeechextremist.com
2022-12-13T14:10:33.715740Z
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@kjr @mathlover @LouisIngenthron @freemo hate arabs hate jews simple as
(DIR) Post #AQZGXuERv4EyP7yGx6 by toiletpaper@shitposter.club
2022-12-13T15:17:42.465479Z
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what I find challenging is exactly that conflation of "jew" with both ethnicity and religion, because even a just attack on ideology/religion/politics (particularly it's advocacy of violence and oppression) can easily be misconstrued (on purpose or otherwise) as an attack on ethnicity. the same to a lesser extent with "arab" or "muslim" to the extent they are synonymous in the popular mind of people outside those cultures.
(DIR) Post #AQgoS2mjxmx9k36eYa by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-12-17T06:40:31Z
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@freemo Now that you tell me, I suddenly crave a Ham sandwich.