Post APwpH7iGSp6YWSDFey by cy@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by cy@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #APuNochd500b9vBJ1U by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T21:42:30Z
5 likes, 7 repeats
I'm dismayed at some of the people on the #left throwing shade at #decentralization as "some #libertarian noise." Like, this is literally people #seizing the #means of mass communication, and these people are opting to side with the #profiteers because apparently it turns out the #proles are actually scary.The ideal socialist condition would be independent communities self-governing and engaging in mutual aid. How the hell does #Twitter fit that model even *remotely* better than #Mastodon?
(DIR) Post #APuNod9dOsPUYmHffs by Lockdownyourlife@infosec.exchange
2022-11-23T21:49:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt As with anything that is self-governing such as an instance, you sometimes end up in a siloed echo chamber of special.In theory, fedi is an idea and it will have growing pains.Understand it is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.And when they point that out they are pushed down for it.
(DIR) Post #APuNodepWtMc7WsaIa by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T21:54:56Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Lockdownyourlife I'm hearing that, and I'm trying to understand it. Because it doesn't jibe with what I know about the possibilities of the technology. I worry that ultimately there are a lot of people who prefer anonymous, arbitrary content police vs. a public commons. By all theory, the public commons should be *more* diverse than the private shopping mall, not less.It all depends on what kind of content police you have, too. In the for-profit model, you're at the whim of what makes money.
(DIR) Post #APuNxYGUwpU20CkSeG by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T21:57:08Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Lockdownyourlife I heard about the mastodon.social cases of people being shut out, and I honestly don't comprehend why the server would have blocked people for their opinions at all. But, hopefully the increased interest in mastodon will lead to increased participation, not just on the user side but on the infrastructure side, and minimize that impact.You're certainly not better off if it happens on, say, #birdsite.
(DIR) Post #APuO4wUVH6p1AGp744 by meowski@fluf.club
2022-11-23T21:58:49.544382Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt >Understand it is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.so you're saying minorities are too dumb to figure out how fedi works?
(DIR) Post #APuOJACx4YqplFOY9w by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T22:00:47Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Lockdownyourlife i mean, oof, but, i don't really think it's a race limited thing. It's a general knowledge thing. I don't really know the ethnic demographics of mastodon, but, I will say there's certainly examples of marginalized communities coming here to chart new courses, from LGBT to Indians to Scots to you name it. Can't be for nothing.
(DIR) Post #APuORTUTGRrvsiYJSy by meowski@fluf.club
2022-11-23T22:02:55.610423Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife tbh you're on 19 levels of wokeness here i can't even follow the train of thought
(DIR) Post #APuOY8qOQRnlsIz9TU by meowski@fluf.club
2022-11-23T22:04:07.618255Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife oh i see you're saying yes there are marginalized people here, yea sure there are all kinds of people! fedi welcomes all. libtards, trannies, nazis, communists, foreigners, whatever you got. we'll take em.
(DIR) Post #APuSfBf8kDbmSaKwpU by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T22:27:54Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Lockdownyourlife Drag Lenin approves comrade.
(DIR) Post #APueVjrXvvn95GOuyu by Lockdownyourlife@infosec.exchange
2022-11-23T22:07:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@s8n @ssfckdt I can suggest an excellent therapist bro.
(DIR) Post #APueVkHmMOm8Ocfrs0 by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-23T22:28:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Lockdownyourlife your mother's sweet lovin is all the therapy i need son
(DIR) Post #APuqlzR5020VSyXLqS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T03:20:25Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt > I'm dismayed at some of the people on the #left throwing shade at #decentralization as "some #libertarian noise."Maybe it points to something some of us have suspected all along; these people aren't on the left. They're authoritarian centrists who have done a disturbingly good job of redefining the issues that matter to them as "the left".BTW You're new here. Welcome. This is normal. Pretty soon all these people will block you for disagreeing with them and it won't be a problem.
(DIR) Post #APurFOfeFtr684NE9I by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T03:25:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt Concern troll:>Understand [the Fedi] is still built on a system that favors white people over minorities and marginalized.Case in point. This is a broad generalization about the world and everything in it. Nothing about it is specific to the 'verse or its technologies. To quote some old white guys..."This isn't an argument! It's just contradiction!"It's a guilt trip, and a subtle warning that you're questioning the sacred moral laws of Those Who Must Not Be Questioned.
(DIR) Post #APurzobw8uwZtyltvk by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:07:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife Mastodon is still private it's not "a public commons".Someone(s) runs your instance, on some private computer(s).Yes, it's _more_ public than twitter in a lot of very important ways, but it's still a long way from any kind of "commons" that includes robust enough inclusion mechanisms."it's open-source" is cool and all, but that's like bullet-point one these days on anything intended to be "secure" or "privacy-preserving" or "in the public interest", not the end-game
(DIR) Post #APurzpDVtD09mWLuV6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T03:34:06Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah > Mastodon is still private it's not "a public commons".Whether the fediverse is a commons depends how you define "commons". If you we use the criteria put forward by Elinor Ostrom for sustainable commons...http://www.onthecommons.org/magazine/elinor-ostroms-8-principles-managing-commmons... then the fediverse is a commons made up of an interlocking complex of commons; each server, software project, and support projects (eg fediverse.party or instances.social) operating as a commons in its own right.@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife #commons
(DIR) Post #APutIpU9DSIA4Ol6em by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T03:48:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt Hmm. Reading my own post again a few minutes later I'm reminded of a quote from The Big Lebowski;"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole."Note to self; must resist my inner Walter, and be more like The Dude ;)
(DIR) Post #APutYi2udumBdAalSS by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:51:28Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey Oh dear. Well, I'm used to it by now, even if I still find it sad.I've been blocked by so many people... people i really didn't even fundamentally disagree with, people left of me, right of me, you name it. So it's par for the courseWhat was it I said the other day @jeffcliff ? "The fun of being an #iconoclast."
(DIR) Post #APutjxdX19DHAa5Lns by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:53:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey ugh. i know this too well, and it still makes me sad every time.
(DIR) Post #APutouwyQuBAHmXiEK by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:54:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey no worries
(DIR) Post #APuu2wOfqngIpLBbYO by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:57:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey It's because of that conflict that I find myself not even really knowing what my ideology is anymore. Because I'm a pretty strong liberal-leftist who also believes in things like debate and growth and open community and lenience. It doesn't seem to fit anywhere.I think I just have to get on with making my own cult or something 🤤
(DIR) Post #APvkoTDapopDqazKL2 by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:38:33Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah @Lockdownyourlife It's a commons inasmuch as the internet is a commons since participation is not limited to large wealthy corporations. Individuals can and do and are generally free to be part of the infrastructure.Like, the archetypal town square is made up of the people who set up shop there... it's still a commons.Commons are defined by who they let in, not by who they exclude. It might not be what people want, but that's what it is.
(DIR) Post #APvkoUOcSJEtV59eAC by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:43:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife Don't get me wrong: mastodon and activitypub are exciting technologies .. I just want to be fair to the large amount of other work required before we can call it "a commons".....and I'd argue the same for "the internet": 20+ years ago, it sure seemed like it was _going_ to be a commons, but it's not. It's like considering "the mall" a commons: mostly it acts like that, but when shit goes sideways everyone is pushed outside by riot-cops. That's not a commons.
(DIR) Post #APvkoUtSbduR2jaHEe by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:44:49Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah I would quickly argue that the reason the internet did not become that commons is precisely because we abandoned open collective operation to profit-oriented entities which made lots of money by 1. restricting us and 2. invading our privacy
(DIR) Post #APvkoVMsqFReVzLm64 by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:46:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt Yes, I agree that's one reason.But did "we" abandon it, or were we told/forced to?
(DIR) Post #APvkoVoBClHNse7Zdw by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:49:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah welllll 😂 i certainly didn't go along willingly. But we can't all be @jeffcliff 😆 The pressure for me there came from the choices of the public, really. Like, I'm on Facebook because most people I want to stay in touch with are also on Facebook. I got on Twitter because a lot of audiences I wanted to converse with were on Twitter. They wouldn't have been my choices otherwise. Chicken/egg
(DIR) Post #APvkoWDLhBPd8htfsG by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:51:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @jeffcliff I've never had a facebook account, but yeah that's the entire "devil's bargain" right there...
(DIR) Post #APvkybn5oiMtKYQXrM by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:45:33Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah @Lockdownyourlife and the mall is not a commons. That's.... that's literally the analogy. The mall is not a commons, and neither are corporate controlled and operated fora.
(DIR) Post #APvkyrMjuSnLdSDj0K by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:43:23Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I mean.... you can run your own instance on your own computer. You're not fundamentally dependent on anyone else to do it. Can't do that with Twitter or Facebook &c, where even your own content is ultimately owned by the private entity.What's disturbing to me is, given the choice between that power vs. being top-down controlled, freedom-seeking folx are opting for the latter.Or the idea that, oxymoronically, having those options is somehow inherently restrictive.
(DIR) Post #APvkyrngIILUz0pEzw by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:45:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife "run your own instance" isn't a panacea (yes, it's cool, and yes it's better than FAANG or whatever offerings)
(DIR) Post #APvkywuFJJZGoow3QO by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:46:51Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I disagree that in order for a paradigm to be an acceptable alternative to twitter and other corporate social media operations must achieve the level of a panacea. It just has to be better.The existing alternatives are certainly not panaceas either, so it's an unreasonable standard.
(DIR) Post #APvlKIAdRfmUqlmK9I by meejah@mastodon.social
2022-11-24T03:48:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife (I kind of don't like analogies, but that's my fault for making one ;)I think in this analogy, mastodon is like the cool, homebrew farmer's market down the road .. not _really_ a mall, but still has a lot of the same structural underpinnings (it's on private property, and if you want to do something besides set up a booth to sell goods/services it's likely to be a problem)
(DIR) Post #APvlYnOY9O57kGCd9M by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T03:59:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meejah @Lockdownyourlife I think that's actually a good analogy.In my experience the farmers market isn't even that restrictive as to who goes there. I've certainly run my own not-for-profit booth at them before. It's YMMV... but that's also apt, because if the Townsville farmers market won't let you, the Cityburg one a few miles north might.
(DIR) Post #APvnkhdnZMrRHa8mjw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:21:15Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ssfckdt > I've been blocked by so many people... people i really didn't even fundamentally disagree with, My point is, it might *seem* that way. But some old git said something like judge them by their fruits. Blocking you for dissenting from their prescriptions of How Things Must Be, tells you way more about their real politics than any of the ideological noises they make. @jeffcliff
(DIR) Post #APvnqoQ5HM5O2ndgTw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:22:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt Embrace it! Every one of the asshats that blocks you is a self-solving problem. Believe me, they're much more of a headache before they block you.
(DIR) Post #APvnz4cAwxymaZEZPc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:23:52Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt Embrace it! Every one of the asshats that blocks you is a self-solving problem. Believe me, they're much more of a headache before they block you. I'm seriously thinking about setting up an alt account for fun shitposting on Qoto.org, so they've all pre-blocked it already 😆
(DIR) Post #APvogtP000piYUxuaW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:31:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt > a pretty strong liberal-leftist who also believes in things like debate and growth and open community and lenienceWelcome to the club.
(DIR) Post #APvovd0pDcZy4CgVns by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:34:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt > a pretty strong liberal-leftist who also believes in things like debate and growth and open community and lenience"if you're in a situation likeThat, there's only one thing you can doWalk into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in, say, "Shrink, youCan get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant", and walk outYou know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he'sReally sick and they won't take himhttps://songmeanings.com/songs/view/71247/
(DIR) Post #APvozyXl6ll40FA6z2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:35:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt > I think I just have to get on with making my own cult or something"if you're in a situation likeThat, there's only one thing you can doWalk into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in, say, "Shrink, youCan get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant", and walk outYou know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he'sReally sick and they won't take him"https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/71247/
(DIR) Post #APvp8qcNwaG81rYZYO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:36:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt > I think I just have to get on with making my own cult or something"if you're in a situation like that, there's only one thing you can doWalk into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in, say, "Shrink, you can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant", and walk outYou know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him"https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/71247/
(DIR) Post #APvpFhop3fjelVe0Rc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:38:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt "And if three people do it! Can you imagine three people walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? They may think it's an Organization!And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends they may think it's a Movement, and that's what it is THE Alices's restaurant anti-massacre movement! And all you gotta do to join is toSing the next time it comes around on the guitar"
(DIR) Post #APvpItT2CnxHlGyOyO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-24T14:38:19Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ssfckdt "And if three people do it! Can you imagine three people walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? They may think it's an Organization!And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends they may think it's a Movement, and that's what it is THE Alices's restaurant anti-massacre movement! And all you gotta do to join is to sing the next time it comes around on the guitar"
(DIR) Post #APvwTD098HO2v7KJZA by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2022-11-24T15:58:59.989482Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey @meejah @ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife on a purely semantic levelthere should be a way to refer to quasi-commons that satisfy some but not all of these 8 requirements like I think jordan peterson made some progress at giving us the tools to think of what it would means for a commons-like system which satisfied 2-7 but not 1 for example
(DIR) Post #APw4LSnPKAI1DsBaW8 by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-24T17:27:06Z
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@ssfckdt @strypey If it helps, these "concern trolls" going on about "white vs marginalized" are actually quite racist. What happens as a consequence of their words, and they know it, is more persecution of minorities, and nothing else. That must be their goal, because it's blatantly obvious. Guilting white people is just inflaming "us vs them" tension making racism worse rather than ending it.
(DIR) Post #APw4uUpdkKdjflw2Xw by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-24T17:33:25Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@strypey @ssfckdt Though uh, there are also a lot of "concern troll" trolls who go after any attempt to discuss injustice, accusing them of being hypocrites and joost as recist as the natzies. So you also have to be wary of arguments along the lines of "Look the minorities are racist too and that makes persecuting them okay!" But overall, you can be anti-racist while rejecting the ones trying to poison your movement to steal our attention.
(DIR) Post #APwDrOaHPybl0xLZ4q by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T19:13:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cy @strypey I'm no fan of tribalism. I see why it is appealing, and I see why folks adopt it, in a world where they are at risk of being ignored. I think they want what we all do, and they choose to focus on it for their own group to avoid being left out of the party. But I don't think it's the best productive tactic for an overall benefit, and I've definitely seen cases where it ended up tanking good ideas. I still want to engage with them and encourage them towards a broader goal. #solidarity
(DIR) Post #APwJcU11XdbhEz81vU by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-24T20:18:15Z
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@ssfckdt @strypey The reason I'm a fan of tribalism is that the greatest tool of the enemies of solidarity is solidarity itself. If you naively trust everyone by some criteria like "I love all humanity" then you're an easy mark for anyone looking to rob you blind. We can't keep track of the whole world, so limiting our trust to a tribe is... kind of necessary. Tribes as a whole can work towards broad goals, but individuals just can't avoid being misled.
(DIR) Post #APwKJLVN3jcnIWlHc0 by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-24T20:26:03Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@cy @strypey By tribalism, I mean a group not defined on community or ideology -- such as by ethnicity, etc. I for sure don't trust all humanity, but I don't base that trust on defined groups (well, at least, not non-ideologically defined ones). There's always going to be people in those groups not aligned with others in those groups, anyway.I'm honestly surprised the tribalism we do see nowadays hasn't come to inter-ethnic competition between marginalized groups yet. Well, domestically anyway
(DIR) Post #APwpH7iGSp6YWSDFey by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T02:13:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @strypey I define tribe as community, ideology, ethnicity, humans form groups, clans, fandoms, neighborhoods and tribes. The reason I think tribalism is so maligned is that the manipulators are well aware of our tribal tendancies, and strive to mislead us into forming the wrong tribes, around sports, or shopping, or clothing styles, or nationality. The answer isn't to reject tribes, but only their tribes calculated to be trivial and crippling.
(DIR) Post #APx2mDaHz0nT75dikq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T04:44:19Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff > there should be a way to refer to quasi-commons that satisfy some but not all of these 8 requirements Sounds like what you're talking about are things like the atmosphere, the ocean, or the noosphere. These are commons, in the sense that they're not private property, and we can all take from them and put stuff into them. But unlike the bounded, managed commons Ostrom described, they're much more subject to the FreeRider Problem etc.@Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt @meejah
(DIR) Post #APxAXkPwQYq2EVPW2S by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T06:11:21Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
100% @cy. The first place I remember coming across the word "tribalism" as a negative was in a magazine put out by propertarians (the capitalism apologists who like to style themselves "libertarians"). As they used it, it was essentially an implicit whinge about the way the deep commoning and mutual aid practices of indigenous cultures made it harder to assimilate them into market economies. I know that's not what you meant @ssfckdt, but it might be worth picking a better term. Sectarianism?
(DIR) Post #APxE4DKGmVVH1JvkDQ by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T06:50:51Z
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@strypey @ssfckdt Whatever you call that thing where you prevent people from forming tribes, by misleading them into joining curated, hamstringed, authoritarian substitutes for tribes. Pseudotribalism? Antitribalist manipulation? Not that tribes can't themselves be awful, but the awfulness of this stuff is off the charts...
(DIR) Post #APxEbIaUEw8ytYI9k8 by charliebrownau@pieville.net
2022-11-25T06:56:51Z
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@ssfckdt @cy @strypey Yet the truth is nations built on a single nation is High trust, low crime
(DIR) Post #APxFghBUJiEgaBjhT6 by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T07:08:58Z
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@strypey @cy I don't think sectarianism is a better fit honestly. I picked up the term in this meaning from other sources and discussions around class consciousness. The other terms I know have even worse connotations. the Atlantic uses the term in this way here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/tribalism-myth-group-solidarity-prejudice-conflict/621008/ (though in my opinion, the article dodges the critical point of the issue)there's nothing wrong with solidarity, but i'd rather folks focus on a broader solidarity over smaller ones
(DIR) Post #APxFkfejwNnt09JXDU by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T07:09:41Z
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@strypey @cy sectarianism to me is either religious or ideological which isn't really what i'm worried about (although, it probably is an issue, but a much tougher nut to crack)
(DIR) Post #APxP7Axz6pQ64E7bW4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T08:54:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
That's a bold claim @charliebrownau . Care to back it up with some examples and references? Because AFAIK the main predictor high trust, low crime is low inequality, and ethnic composition barely even moves the needle. @ssfckdt @cy
(DIR) Post #APxPOLHG1j2wy7K1HE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T08:57:44Z
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@cy > We can't keep track of the whole world, so limiting our trust to a tribe is... kind of necessary. The way moderation works in the 'verse is a working illustration of this. It actually works here, in a way that is structurally impossible on centralized datafarms regardless of how much money they throw at the problem, because each tribe takes care of moderation on their own server, in their own way. Generally without trying to set rules for everyone.@ssfckdt
(DIR) Post #APxSP0KbglCS9qtbjU by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T09:30:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ssfckdt @strypey Do you happen to know where I could get a copy of that book, "The Power of Us" by Dominic J. Packer and Jay J. Van Bavel?Something for the wishlist, I guess.
(DIR) Post #APxSP4jDLDGBnKRJdw by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T09:31:27Z
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@strypey @cy i guess i need to fine tune that terminology as suggested.Because it's not so much forming tribes that I think is the problem, it's the then jockeying for supremacy and concession and authority amongst them all. pretty soon it becomes unproductive chaos.I think it makes sense to form a tribe based on community, too, rather than solely on an identity. "othering" is a great way to breed xenophobia imo. We can be communities and not be rivals.
(DIR) Post #APxSj5kBH6PijhR6wa by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T09:35:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@strypey @cy And so far, afaik, #masto nodes are not actively fighting one another or jockeying for supremacy or authority over the fed. That would be ..... awful
(DIR) Post #APxTY7ViSwpwz50Efg by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T09:44:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@strypey @cy @charliebrownau@pieville.net it's really not. it generally devolves into further interdivision. More often than not, the struggles are classist rather than nationalist. there are those who make noise about suburbs being safer than cities and then correlating that the suburbs are less diverse (which... debatable). But they're also less diverse classwise, and powerwise, and that's usually the rub.
(DIR) Post #APxf4wJ0FJF3HguNNI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T11:53:29Z
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@ssfckdtI'm having to read the tea leaves a bit to interpret this.It could be surprise? Or sarcasm? Because actually there is always a bit of that going on. Especially among the newbies, who often start out with feelings of irrational terror at the absence of a central authority who can protect them from the "deplorables". Something else?Can you disambiguate for us?@cy
(DIR) Post #APxiDpCOKySbiDkD6u by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T12:28:42Z
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@ssfckdt > I picked up the term in... discussions around class consciousness. Tankies use tribalism as an implicit whinge about the way the commoning and mutual aid practices of indigenous cultures made it harder to assimilate them into centrally planned economies. In fact, It's possible the propertarians picked up this usage from marxists. Like Ayn Rand a lot of them come out of doctrinaire marxist upbringings and their politics are in large part of revolt against them. @cy
(DIR) Post #APxihJlLmSacu09wOG by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-25T07:10:33Z
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@strypey @cy cultural sectarianism? identity sectarianism?
(DIR) Post #APxihKK5hINYdkPgXY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T12:34:02Z
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@ssfckdt @cy > cultural sectarianism? identity sectarianism?Identitarianism?https://scribe.rip/comrade-morlocks-journal/what-is-identitarianism-why-do-neoliberals-love-it-why-wont-wikipedia-define-it-fully-f979d0348c57See also the Fucking Cancelled podcast who talk about this a lot in the context of a thing they call The Nexus:
(DIR) Post #APxikqlbWpv28Cxjgu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T12:34:15Z
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@ssfckdt @cy > cultural sectarianism? identity sectarianism?Identitarianism?https://scribe.rip/comrade-morlocks-journal/what-is-identitarianism-why-do-neoliberals-love-it-why-wont-wikipedia-define-it-fully-f979d0348c57See also the Fucking Cancelled podcast who talk about this a lot in the context of a thing they call The Nexus:https://fuckingcancelled.libsyn.com/organizing-against-the-nexus-wrecker-proofing-leftist-organizations
(DIR) Post #APy5cuFczKrlZCBeCm by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2022-11-25T16:51:01.824800Z
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@strypey @Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt @meejah > they're much more subject to the FreeRider Problem etc.any commons can be subject to the free rider problemit's up to us to organize ourselves to make sure that it's not
(DIR) Post #APyHj5wLdm3p0Ut0dc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T19:06:32Z
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@jeffcliff > any commons can be subject to the free rider problem> it's up to us to organize ourselves to make sure that it's notYes. Ostrom's work was about exploring the nuts and bolts of how to do that, based on observing real world examples of both success and failure. That's where the 8 principles come from, and there are good reasons for each one being included.@Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt @meejah
(DIR) Post #APyIO1TN9euz1aqhpw by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2022-11-25T19:14:00.127238Z
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@strypey @Lockdownyourlife @ssfckdt @meejah > , and there are good reasons for each one being included.Sure, there are good reasons, and are good rules especially lacking others to replace them. It's a good start to bootstrap off of.But once you notice #1 is easily dropped the others start to look sus - there is a world outside of these rules and it's worth engaging with with the same spirit
(DIR) Post #APyLn9JjQT3USL0q9o by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T19:51:57Z
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@strypey @ssfckdt "Identity politics" is what I call it, quite toxic to collectivist movements. Fragmenting collective identity however possible, through "race," ethnicity, history, experience, even common interests. You actually can work together without a common interest, but they like to say you can't, because it makes it harder for us to come together. Identity is great, but very dangerous and vulnerable to propaganda.
(DIR) Post #APyM7KpYKUpbxIWPwG by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T19:55:45Z
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@strypey @ssfckdt Though uh, the Nazis called it "Cultural Bolshevism" and they were lying their teeth off, but one of the reasons they held such power over people is they could sustain a collective identity, after having proactively poisoned it with authoritarianism. So be careful before dismissing individuals who are different, and try to focus on working together rather than excluding and rooting out evil.
(DIR) Post #APyNL7CLuWXRgTJxiq by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T20:09:27Z
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@ssfckdt @strypey It's a problem with friendship that I don't quite know how to solve, other than privacy is absolutely essential. Once you have groups of friends, some groups will discover that by making it harder for others to have friends, they can grant an advantage to their own friends. That's how that stuff devolves into warlords and cults: the decent groups get annihilated and only the nasty ones survive, until eventually one conquers all.
(DIR) Post #APyWYMn8977ROhuvey by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T21:52:39Z
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@ssfckdt @strypey You know what's safer than suburbs? Prisons. Can you tell the difference? I sure have trouble telling them apart.
(DIR) Post #APysx88rwmP6C7Ia8W by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T02:03:40Z
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@cy Depends on your suburb I guess, or maybe how you define "suburb". The one I live in isn't particularly safe but it's nothing like a prison ;)@ssfckdt
(DIR) Post #APyz8YU4woHAns3BZo by cy@mstdn.io
2022-11-26T03:12:57Z
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@strypey @ssfckdt Prisons are very safe, and the safer suburbs feel more like prisons I think. Everyone is safe in their houses, nobody goes outside, or interacts. You're allowed to enter your own cell, but the rest of the neighborhood is private property owned by someone you never even met, along with their bank, all surrounded in impassable 6 foot tall solid fencing.
(DIR) Post #APzBic32NDghjPMV28 by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-26T05:33:55Z
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@cy @strypey Yeah, that's the term I've come to avoid, because (in the anti sense) it gets used as a cudgel to imply ignorance of or antipathy towards valid racial/identity issues, and that gets in the way. And there's definitely that cadre among the set of those who vocally oppose the concept.It's not the identities or their concerns that I find problematic -- it's their use, as i said, to jockey for place amongst each other, and even to the detriment of other cross-identity social problems.
(DIR) Post #APzBuY5QvZIcv8ArVQ by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-26T05:36:05Z
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@cy @strypey See, that's exactly something that I worry that the extent of this phenomenon is actually working against. We'll fight amongst each other for who gets what space on the couch, while the house is being lit on fire.
(DIR) Post #APzCH7CZ3FGUCNGoLo by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-11-26T05:40:08Z
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@strypey @cy True. I define it terms of settlement patterns. I know usually it means "other towns near the large town," but in reality few communities are that clean cut. I know suburbs with areas that feel like urban cities, and there are definitely sections of urban cities that are essentially suburbs.My previous place was a high rise apartment with amenities (stores, venues, jobs, transit) in walking distance. Most would say that town was a surbub. But it was definitely not suburban living.
(DIR) Post #AQFDokMpfEcRhy24WW by lwriemen@social.librem.one
2022-12-03T23:12:48Z
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@strypey @meejah @ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife The idea of public vs private technology favors any group of people who are more likely to have access to permanent housing, money, leisure time, and higher education, especially when it comes to running your own server instances.
(DIR) Post #AQHragyxpz9JdddoZc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-12-05T05:47:48Z
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@lwriemenFunny, I remember people used to do the same sort of hand-waving about the net vs. TV. When tech bubble 2.0 finally bursts, and the only platforms that remain are those that charge subscriptions from their users and cut off or severely downgrade service for those who don't pay (as has happened with TV), the real economics of this may become clearer. @meejah @ssfckdt @Lockdownyourlife
(DIR) Post #AQmcrPzMnSDKRd6YGu by msquebanh@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-12-19T06:17:04Z
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@ssfckdt Please STOP LINKING TO TWITTER!!!
(DIR) Post #AQmcrQYSgyHqCTWZyS by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-12-19T06:18:36Z
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@msquebanh oops. how bout a screencap?
(DIR) Post #AQmcrpCh32jEeCX30y by msquebanh@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-12-19T06:20:35Z
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@ssfckdt better & most recommended! Stop feeding the petulant toddler.
(DIR) Post #AQmcrpq2gkCicEwTLc by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2022-12-19T06:20:53Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@msquebanh fair!