Post APeZuLh5M9du8qEeXI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #APd6xGeJTeYZXH1BsO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-15T13:56:56Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I'm a bit worried Mike is finally heading off into #TempleOS territory..."There will be one project and it will have no name (the project is virtual or ephemeral), but you can find it in the Streams repository on codeberg (https://codeberg.org/streams/s…). This project will not be open source or free software or closed source and has no license. It simply exists."https://macgirvin.com/item/a8b71bc6-5eeb-4bfc-a845-5e25f1ed86be
(DIR) Post #APd700qagXO9Oa4OcC by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2022-11-15T13:57:29.035841Z
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@strypey You forgot to attach the gigachad image
(DIR) Post #APdAd8R0i0Wg5FS3bE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-15T14:38:05Z
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@ariadneIndeed. I can't help but notice the way he seems to flee from success. Every time one of his projects starts to get a decent number of users and some outside contributors, he forks it and starts another one. Despite this enthusiasm for regularly starting afresh, he refuses to move beyond prototyping languages and implement his protocol ideas in a scalable server-side language. If Automattic were rebuilding WP from scratch, I doubt they'd used PHP...
(DIR) Post #APdskSQPBDS65nTDeK by dd@social.linux.pizza
2022-11-15T22:51:09Z
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@strypey Depends on how one defines success, I suppose.He left Friendica, yet development (and deployment) persists without him. Same with Hubzilla.Can't blame the guy for doing what he wants.Might check out Streams.
(DIR) Post #APe3D3peh2Vjl7YhTE by mike@unfediverse.com
2022-11-15T19:36:26Z
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And a lovely morning to you also.
(DIR) Post #APe3D4OObsIfUroRcW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-16T00:49:21Z
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No offense meant @mike, you're pretty well known for calling a spade a spade, so I assume you can handle other people doing the same. You've got to admit that quote represents a pretty... unconventional approach to software.
(DIR) Post #APe7AGGuO14bHtE7W4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-16T01:33:58Z
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No blame or judgement here, just making observations.@dd> Depends on how one defines success, I suppose.Indeed, this is in the eye of the beholder. But if you consider his constant frustration with the majority of the fediverse using ActivityPub instead of Zot (or The Protocol Formerly Known as Zot?), then it's reasonable to think his metric for success is adoption. Which the decisions I quoted and the habits I noted all work to undermine.
(DIR) Post #APeDQE2l2QDgjdbSzY by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-16T02:44:04Z
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@strypey I use Hubzilla and am undemanding of UI's, but I am not sure that Swiss Army knife Hubzilla can be made to look like a Mastodon penknife. Maybe a UI for such a multi-faceted software artifact is difficult?@dd
(DIR) Post #APeIWEKZNlgv8OcKo4 by dd@social.linux.pizza
2022-11-16T03:41:10Z
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@strypey Yeah, seems like, with #streams, he's all-in on #ActivityPub now that it's the *de facto* protocol. #Nomad is mostly a stopgap until either AP (or successor protocol) catches up.
(DIR) Post #APeJGLWoxDG6mJKzKa by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-16T03:49:24Z
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@strypey it doesn't seem extreme at all, given his antipathy to branding. The no-license bit is intriguing; for one, no corporate legal team would accept it!
(DIR) Post #APeZZT1AvlFKm8fuYi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-16T06:51:56Z
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@mike I've been reflecting on this post all afternoon. I apologize for the way I've handled this and for doubling down, after you responded with such restraint. If I was really calling a spade a spade, I would have said this *to* you, not *about* you, and @mentioned you to respect your right of reply. Again, I'm sorry I failed to do this.Rather than making a snarky comparison, it would have been better to ask; what are you trying to achieve by launching a nameless project under no license?
(DIR) Post #APeZuLCxABXWdO8aZM by mike@unfediverse.com
2022-11-16T06:32:43Z
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The point is that I'm retired from open source and all the associated toxicity. I still write code and I still give it to the world because that's just something I've always done. If you find me or what I do repugnant for some reason, you probably won't be interested in my personal repository. I'm doing some interesting stuff with decentralised communications, just as I've done for 40-50 years now. It is always changing form and adapting to the communications norms of the day but it always does some really cool shit. If this offends you in some way, have a great life.
(DIR) Post #APeZuLh5M9du8qEeXI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-16T06:55:20Z
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@mike See the public apology I just posted.
(DIR) Post #APefvncNcVa2lG6pma by mariusor@metalhead.club
2022-11-16T08:03:24Z
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> finally heading off into #TempleOS territory...> No blame or judgement here, just making observations.@strypey that first one looks like judgement from here, or in the least a backhanded compliment.@dd
(DIR) Post #APfzKlEDjb5csPNvCS by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-16T03:58:03Z
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@strypey the part about not moving beyond prototying languages, I wish it was a slam-dunk, buta) it may only be true nowadays, with Elixir aroundb) it asks for working code to be thrown away, which may be insane to do before a re-implementation is aroundIt can be expected from the community, maybe not from Mike.@dd
(DIR) Post #APfzKlihuFTaOxeGie by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-16T23:15:36Z
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@tetrislife> moving beyond prototying languagesScuttlebutt started getting taken more seriously when there was an implementation that wasn't in JavaScript. Matrix started to get taken more seriously when there was progress on server implantations that weren't in Python. Perhaps this is just language snobbery, with no technical justification. But it's observable that it increased interest in and adoption of the protocol in both cases. As @dd said, it depends on your metric for success.
(DIR) Post #APgFoVaC4EwIJ4rxM8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T02:20:17Z
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@tetrislife> Maybe a UI for such a multi-faceted software artifact is difficult?Indeed. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But there are platforms that have as many features as Hubzilla or more, but their UI is easier to navigate, and self-teaching. UX is not just about UI either. It's also about thorough user-facing documentation, that's easy to find and easy to understand. Doing this well is important in making a feature-rich multi-tool more tractable for new users.@dd
(DIR) Post #APgHy48BBfxJyES0si by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T02:44:25Z
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@ddAP certainly has its limitations, which is why I continue to take an interest in the work Mike is doing. With BlueSky's AT Protocol offering a high profile alternative that claims to address AP's limitations, I'm hoping another round of standards negotiations can coverage on a federated social web protocols that works for us all. We live in hope:)
(DIR) Post #APgIHYpBIG7qfPrPcW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T02:47:57Z
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@tetrislife> no corporate legal team would accept it!What makes you think that? I would have thought a public domain statement, waiving all copyright, is even more attractive to them than pushover licenses like "MIT"/"BSD".
(DIR) Post #APgINmFkHP8Q3IFYye by icedquinn@blob.cat
2022-11-17T02:49:08.123507Z
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@strypey @tetrislife some jurisdictions oddly do not allow or recognize public domain
(DIR) Post #APgTkJclz92ZPzyEoS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T04:56:24Z
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@mariusorSee the apology I posted, as a reply to the post you're quoting.@dd
(DIR) Post #APh27EiXnAGZIllrkG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T11:21:32Z
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@icedquinnIsn't there a special CreativeCommons license for hacking around that?@tetrislife
(DIR) Post #APh2Hotu7P8YPy8CWm by icedquinn@blob.cat
2022-11-17T11:23:29.039788Z
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@strypey @tetrislife :blobcatyes:
(DIR) Post #APh2OcKNGNSfRykmjg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T11:24:40Z
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@tetrislifeNot naming things is weird and impractical. If someone you knew refused to name them their children, I think your would find that weird. It's so awkward to discuss entities that don't have names, that a name will inevitably end up being chosen by rough consensus. The term fediverse is a classic example.
(DIR) Post #APh2RiAQ0ba4QhZXsG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T11:25:15Z
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@tetrislifeNot naming things is impractical. If someone you knew refused to name their children, I think you would find that weird. It's so awkward to discuss entities that don't have names, that a name will inevitably end up being chosen by rough consensus. The term fediverse is a classic example.
(DIR) Post #APhUeVwtXnax178k64 by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-17T16:41:11Z
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@strypey he has named the protocol: Zot6, Zot8, Nomad. Maybe he wants that to be the focus. E-mail, not GMail? Really, another implementation is what is missing.
(DIR) Post #APi5cv9aYjJUufBGpk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-17T23:35:36Z
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@tetrislifeYou're dodging the point. Not naming things is weird and makes the maintainer seem less reliable (thus the TempleOS comparison). This harms adoption. The app will end up with a name whether the maintainer gives it one or not. Or it will be ignored. In either case, the choice harms adoption. Why bother distributing software if you don't care about people using it? Especially social network software, given that network effect is a thing.
(DIR) Post #APiQYybDu7dFTk4Dh2 by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-18T03:30:08Z
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@strypey i am not dodging any point, just mentioned Nomad et al. Elsewhere, I have seen the sentiment expressed that Mike shouldn't be seen as a software architect like gargron, but as a protocol developer. There should be alternate implementations atleast talking Nomad if not replicating the Hubzilla or Zap or Streams feature-set. Somehow it doesn't seem right to expect that too from Mike et al.
(DIR) Post #APiS2JHACzRRxREf9E by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-18T03:46:41Z
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@tetrislifeWhy would anyone invest in building on top of the work of someone who comes across as uncooperative and unreliable? For reasons given in the post you're replying to. This is my whole point, right from the initial post. Thanks for the discussion, I'm going to leave it there.
(DIR) Post #APixODGeKD5sGzv2zg by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-11-18T09:37:58Z
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@strypey sure. Just deriving from that, let me see how well Nomad is documented.