Post ANI3PcEUY6mRX3UUF6 by abbienormal@floss.social
(DIR) More posts by abbienormal@floss.social
(DIR) Post #ANI0QCDcSFMPHIfSq0 by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T08:15:31Z
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#Clojure introduced me to lispy languagesAnd one of the tools was Emacs Livehttps://github.com/overtone/emacs-liveIt was a .emacs folder that you could just drop in your home folder and that made Emacs a georgous IDE for ClojureRequiring people to learn to deal with Emacs before they can write a single line of the language they're approaching is a stupid punishmentI wrote this after reading this threadhttps://post.lurk.org/@celesteh/108948006491442054
(DIR) Post #ANI3PbdyjrZbhoPKKW by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T14:00:54Z
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@abbienormal I don't understand why people so smart to programming think that Emacs is difficult to use.
(DIR) Post #ANI3PcEUY6mRX3UUF6 by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T14:05:11Z
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@maxxcan Because it is ?
(DIR) Post #ANI3PcbXARDCgWGt9s by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T14:23:26Z
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@abbienormal Emacs is easy to use. Im not programmer and I use Emacs for to do all. Programming Clojure too
(DIR) Post #ANI7QwHpsGKPpnwQYy by parasurv@mk.nixnet.social
2022-09-06T14:34:26.876Z
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@maxxcan@mastodon.social @abbienormal@floss.social Emacs is easy if you like using shortcuts, which is good anyway cause you don't have to deal with icons and menus, and all that stupid stuff that holds you back and makes you incredible slow.Repetition makes you faster working with shortcuts. Once you make your setup work, it's way easier than to deal with GUI stuff, imo.
(DIR) Post #ANI7QweWVuTayAYXvU by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T14:53:33Z
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@parasurv @maxxcan GUI has made computing a mass phenomenonyou're being a bit too fast in condemning it, in my opinionjust because GUIless tools are good for you doen't mean they're good in generalsee herehttps://floss.social/@abbienormal/108952017802346899
(DIR) Post #ANI7Qx3h0KbqEEKe9o by parasurv@mk.nixnet.social
2022-09-06T14:58:06.496Z
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@abbienormal@floss.social @maxxcan@mastodon.social I don't condemn it in general, but I don't think it's that essential for Emacs. When you learn stuff, it will be probably just a distraction for most people (like when you are learning a language and suddenly realize, you don't need subtitles for movies anymore). Of course learning takes time, and it all depends on the individual.Many people recommend Emacs GUI for the first time, and I am in that camp too (mostly because Emacs in terminal is just not that great).
(DIR) Post #ANI7QxVLLWj9bzGjFw by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T15:01:19Z
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@parasurv @abbienormal I agree, but for that Emacs have a GUI mode, and many distribution like Spacemacs and Doom. You think that in the first learning Emacs was more difficult for me because English isn't my mother language.
(DIR) Post #ANI7Qxu9rGZoqwsXw0 by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:08:22Z
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@maxxcan @parasurv Exactly Spacemacs and Doom are great exactly fir this reason (I called them "Emacs Distros" in my original tootEmacs Live was just another Emacs Distro only less general and it came a few years earlier
(DIR) Post #ANIC6iFCsDJAGIt0ls by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:04:39Z
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@parasurv @maxxcan I was thinking of VisyalCode or how it's called It's a GUI tool used by hordes of programmers Same goes for PyCharmWhy do they exist ?Are M$ and Intellij stupid ?GUI tools are a thing for programmers tooAgain: just because the journey offered by Emacs was ok for you that doesn't mean it's ok in generalIn fact, it's leaving a ton of people in the dust And again I would have personally been one of those left in the Dust
(DIR) Post #ANIC6ihZAlzdgG9eyW by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T15:08:27Z
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@abbienormal @parasurv the people use visual code or pycham or intellij because is the first tools that they have known. For that it's a problem that the people only learn to programming with that tools.
(DIR) Post #ANIC6jAzPNWr9Vv9pw by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:09:25Z
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@maxxcan @parasurv NoThey use them because the cognitive style of Emacs is not good for everybody
(DIR) Post #ANIC6jZ5xkoMMHCPPU by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T15:14:47Z
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@abbienormal @parasurv I don't think so. I remember when I only use command line in unix twenty years ago. The others programmers say me that I was used a old and difficult tools. Now most sysadmins have realized that the command line is better to work with. Even Microsoft have command line Unix in Windows 10 and announced as a major breakthrough
(DIR) Post #ANIC6jyGSAwbcKyVdo by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:16:43Z
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@maxxcan @parasurv you are a professional among professionalsyou used CL tools 20 years ago and you observe professional syadmins we're obvioulsy not talking about the same targetGUI tools like VisualCode and PyCharm have a reason to existit's not only marketing
(DIR) Post #ANIC6kfrq3p3nZNKbY by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:06:24Z
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@parasurv @maxxcan Thanks God Emacs Live existed Without it I'd have never learnt Clojure and then Guile and God knows what else
(DIR) Post #ANIC6m8cOePmL1po3c by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T15:19:32Z
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@abbienormal @parasurv it's not marketing, is a real problem in the high school and school in general. I recommed you to read this article about Chromebooks https://clarissalittler.github.io/2019/12/26/chromebooks.html
(DIR) Post #ANIC6mX4vhyrYtHLBQ by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:33:17Z
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@maxxcan @parasurv you seem not ready to accept that GUI tools can introduce naive people to ITit's not only about educationit's about human naturemany humans find the cognitive style of GNU tools impracticalit's not their fault, as you seem to assume
(DIR) Post #ANIC6myjGu6AweDQHY by worldsendless@qoto.org
2022-09-06T16:01:31Z
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@abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv "can introduce naive people to IT". I am interested in arguments about whether this is actually a good thing or not (the fact that we are talking here on Mastodon might indicate our bias on this point)
(DIR) Post #ANIC6oz9oHd5AYQnE8 by abbienormal@floss.social
2022-09-06T15:17:37Z
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@maxxcan @parasurv people can learn with GUI tools and then move to more technical toolsbut if thay have to start from tech tools, read man pages, they will simply give up
(DIR) Post #ANICUf74AQ9pV5Uyki by maxxcan@mastodon.social
2022-09-06T16:05:52Z
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@worldsendless @abbienormal @parasurv Apart from my personal opinion, I have been an IT teacher for some years and I have realized that the simpler the tools used to teach, the less people learn because we tend to resort to the law of minimum effort. I was 11 years old when I learned assembler and I'm not very smart, there was just nothing else.
(DIR) Post #ANICqVH9QGkPMSd9SC by sarvo@novoa.nagoya
2022-09-06T16:09:39.377Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@maxxcan@mastodon.social @worldsendless@qoto.org @abbienormal@floss.social @parasurv@mk.nixnet.social People use windows and Facebook apple android google etc. Because they have being trained and conditioned to do so. If we happen to for example teach kids to use terminals they would be proficient at vim when they be teenagers for example.
(DIR) Post #ANICyO1SH1kPBO31NY by EdBoatConnoisseur@poa.st
2022-09-06T16:11:16.069865Z
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@sarvo @maxxcan @worldsendless @abbienormal @parasurv i mean, vim is easy, just ZZ and ZQ
(DIR) Post #ANIDAqB3Q88PyiTaWO by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-09-06T16:13:29.761550Z
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@sarvo @worldsendless @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv nothing
(DIR) Post #ANIDF4GQzK78pH0aHY by sarvo@novoa.nagoya
2022-09-06T16:14:17.283Z
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@waifu@waifuism.life @worldsendless@qoto.org @abbienormal@floss.social @maxxcan@mastodon.social @parasurv@mk.nixnet.social t. Has been lobotomized by the Microsoft corporation
(DIR) Post #ANIDGLi9bcEBE7aKxM by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-09-06T16:14:29.231243Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sarvo @worldsendless @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv t. is scared of pictures
(DIR) Post #ANIDJrIqbXW64lQCmG by sarvo@novoa.nagoya
2022-09-06T16:15:09.189Z
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@waifu@waifuism.life @worldsendless@qoto.org @abbienormal@floss.social @maxxcan@mastodon.social @parasurv@mk.nixnet.social now that's actually nothing
(DIR) Post #ANIDK4osLlrPzrVT0K by ruina@sleepy.cafe
2022-09-06T16:15:10.653907Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waifu @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv @sarvo @worldsendless get his ass
(DIR) Post #ANIDPU2G1ecFeNLNs8 by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-09-06T16:16:08.680299Z
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@sarvo @worldsendless @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv if you see a person you can be 98% sure they don’t use linux
(DIR) Post #ANIF18Ml8jsJP0RzY8 by sarvo@novoa.nagoya
2022-09-06T16:34:10.778Z
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@waifu@waifuism.life @worldsendless@qoto.org @abbienormal@floss.social @maxxcan@mastodon.social @parasurv@mk.nixnet.social yes we are discussing why
(DIR) Post #ANIFQZDkQqgzvjMYwi by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-09-06T16:38:44.594609Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sarvo @worldsendless @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv remove the terminal and gnu+linux stocks will go up 500000% trust the plan
(DIR) Post #ANIGldBL02nwFbqMBk by neko@rdrama.cc
2022-09-06T16:53:31.388436Z
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@waifu @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv @sarvo @worldsendless shut up you freaks this was about Lisp and Emacs not operating systems
(DIR) Post #ANIMWOyk7k2xa84daC by worldsendless@qoto.org
2022-09-06T17:58:14Z
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@waifu @abbienormal @maxxcan @parasurv @sarvo hahaha. Yeah, I bet the Linux share holders would love that! If I contribute to my distro, do I get a cut?
(DIR) Post #ANaxANDPC9QZWTuAKm by worldsendless@qoto.org
2022-09-15T17:13:39Z
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@maxxcan I would love to dig in more to that concept of "law of minimum effort" and learning outcomes. It sounds economical and like a good survival heuristic; I would like to examine its shortcomings