Post AMYVXxRzVGFErB4cd6 by obsolete29@indieweb.social
(DIR) More posts by obsolete29@indieweb.social
(DIR) Post #AMYRoEP3ospRNIxqQy by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:20:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Static Site Generators (#SSG) are really simple to use, right?Nah, I don't think they are and we should stop spreading this misinformation.https://kevq.uk/static-site-generators-are-easy-to-useright/
(DIR) Post #AMYRxdT7znUTikLpDM by joel@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:22:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev Up until now, I had considered you a friend...
(DIR) Post #AMYSDzX5jLA6mg0JAe by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-15T14:25:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev Depends on how you do it.They are easier to host. Fallback is still functional.
(DIR) Post #AMYSIx9fzvRMrFPxR2 by retronav@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:26:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev SSG user here (11ty) but I agree with this article, especially the following:> Devs don’t realise that is a massive barrier for entry for anyone who isn’t a dev.
(DIR) Post #AMYSKmzgkPBhvHcah6 by toastedwedge@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:26:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev Agreed. They're great for "tinker blogging" and large scale blogs or documentation resources. Otherwise, they are extremely painful when you just need one or two pages that won't even have js, and touch it maybe every 3 or 4 months (thus relearning every time the organizational structure of the software)
(DIR) Post #AMYSdiK8KrWAwNCyum by Anachron@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:30:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@joel @kev SSG are a blessing, in fact my blog uses a 50LOC shell script to generate the posts from markdown.I think the thing most people against SSGs are missing is that its very dynamic.You can write markdown content in a shell or use your favorite GUI editor on the desktop, laptop or even phone!This can be synced in several ways to your server (or something like a public CI/CD) where its built and pushed.Bottom line: Yes, if you have no tech skills, this is a bad idea.
(DIR) Post #AMYSkkUqeh9VhrZh9E by benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:31:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev My understanding was that the main usefulness anyway is so you can buy shared hosting instead of a VPS, so yeah, I kinda agree. It’s still far easier than the path I went down of hand coding my blog from the ground up using PHP, then node. I kinda wish I’d found a SSG before I tried that, but I’m too far to go back now!
(DIR) Post #AMYTSvPvPjgEJlKwF6 by mauriziocarnago@mastodon.uno
2022-08-15T14:39:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev The only really simple SSG for anyone that I have found is Publii.
(DIR) Post #AMYTcFu2cNCwSXs9Qm by rubenwardy@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:40:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I'm a programmer, I use static site generators because they fit well into my developer workflow. I don't recommend static site generators to non-programmers, it's definitely not meant for that
(DIR) Post #AMYThru4lC0jlQZ5nc by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:41:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@benjaminhollon jeez that sounds like a lot of work!
(DIR) Post #AMYTkRuHs5FW0PtWLI by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:42:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mauriziocarnago yeah, Publii looks really good. I think if I ever ditched WP, I'd go with Publii.
(DIR) Post #AMYU5g56MlqO334juC by benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T14:46:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev It is, but mostly because I hate working with databases and have forgotten how most of the code related to that works.I’m planning to remove comments and reactions so I don’t need a database. Also, I want to see if I can get my site to read my blog posts directly from Joplin which would (1) streamline the writing and editing process (2) skip the harrowing process of using databases altogether and (3) be super cool bragging rights. :)Also I kinda want to do it in Rust instead of node.
(DIR) Post #AMYVS3uMa5T99BX72W by maymeow@mastodon.social
2022-08-15T15:01:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I used SSG on my blog but moved to Gost as my CMS. I still recommend SSGs for sites where is not important to change content offten (as on blogs). I see many peoples/companies who using wordpress or site that change maybe once or twice per year and SSG on sites that changes almost daily... at the end one payong to keep Wordpress secure and later group paying programers to edit html or MD files because they dont know how to do it...
(DIR) Post #AMYVXxRzVGFErB4cd6 by obsolete29@indieweb.social
2022-08-15T15:02:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev as a ssg user myself, it feels like we're talking past each other really and are not agreeing on the definition or context of "simple". Using text and image files is a pretty simple way to serve up a website compared to dynamic code and database calls.Opening up a web page, typing up a post and hitting a publish button is a simple way to publish posts.Both are true in their own context.
(DIR) Post #AMYZ4xmLbSL1IH1bSS by gray@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T15:42:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I started playing with the idea of this again recently after having something called Publii pop up in my news feed.It was a pain in the backside. I've got a post pending in the drafts about it … along with many others!There's a reason I wrote this https://blog.grayw.co.uk/a-static-u-turn/ back in 2020 (wow).If you're missing something, so am I.
(DIR) Post #AMYaaiY9rJyFHc5qt6 by wrongthink@cdrom.tokyo
2022-08-15T15:59:10.168048Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rubenwardy @kev SSG as a concept aren’t bad for those without such a background. I think it’s more that the documentation for these generators assumes the user is already familiar with a lot of webdev.
(DIR) Post #AMYf91UoKAGlho8pCC by Wivik@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T16:50:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev When you understand how do they work it's just perfect. But yes, Hugo can be a real pain to understand its logic and the documentation is not really intuitive (and when you're not familiar with the Go templating, it's just horrible...). And the templates are sometimes very cryptic.But now, I must admit I won't turn back. Producing only HTML pages and pushing them to a stupid web hosting is enough for me.(my SSG experiences are Hugo and Sphinx BTW)
(DIR) Post #AMYfmlzrMxAhDdcPgG by seve_py@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T16:57:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I use Pelican+Pandoc as #SSG with some customizations it integrates well with VIM and my note-taking workflow.Simple? Maybe not, but I don't see alternative solutions that work without a database and a web server.
(DIR) Post #AMYhnKDgKSVNGfTUJ6 by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T17:19:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@obsolete29 the context I’m referring to here is simple within the guise of producing content and managing the site.
(DIR) Post #AMYjmBbp3chgBILowK by TomLarrow@mastodon.social
2022-08-15T17:42:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev @obsolete29 while I agree static code generated sites are not as simple to initially set up, nor are they as simple to post, they are far more simple to manage the site once they are up and runningNot having to update the language or the database the site uses, not needing to patch vulnerabilities in the software platform or its many plugins all make it require less ongoing maintenanceEvery system has friction. Some systems are per post friction, some are per patch friction
(DIR) Post #AMYppUGmjWuMeMT5CC by adamsdesk@mastodon.technology
2022-08-15T18:49:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@joel @kev I see what you mean, however I don't entiey agree. Its not complicated it just requires knowledge. One has to put the time in to learn. Same with a CMS, one has to learn how to use it. CMS has tried for years to remove the designer, developer, but fact remains to me that its not possible. It can be easier to a point, but you still need to know both roles. One also at some point needs a sysadmin. There can be of course improvements including documentation.
(DIR) Post #AMYwxkW6uTeR2GWUvw by danarel@mastodon.technology
2022-08-15T20:09:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev You're 100% correct. SSGs are awesome, fun to play with, if you know what you're doing. They are unusable for someone who just wants to start a blog, etc. They are also hard to get off of. I built ThinkPrivacy.ch on one, but with all the damn liquid code in use, moving everything to WordPress or other is a HUGE feat.
(DIR) Post #AMYxxwIHDvklVzhtia by brecht@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T20:21:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I quite like static sites, yet I can't help but notice how many blogs have the "I just switched to [SSG], and I think it's great!" as their last post.
(DIR) Post #AMZ0eYmwgwBsyVVFgW by pim@writing.exchange
2022-08-15T20:51:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev Some SSGs are easier to use than others it seems, at least as far as template languages are concerned. Blot’s Mustache or Jekyll’s Liquid are both far easier to understand than Hugo’s Go templates, which are admittedly a hot mess in comparison. At least the only time I have to see them is when theming on Micro.blog, otherwise I can still just write and publish. You’re correct that SSGs are powerful, but not without some hair pulling.
(DIR) Post #AMZAf2wNCczX5Vot2e by sudoedit@fosstodon.org
2022-08-15T22:43:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I’m technically not a developer, though I do write system administration scripts in various languages. I actually do like writing my blog in Markdown, and running it with Hugo. But you’re right for the most part. If I didn’t know git, and wasn’t more than comfortable on the cli, then it would be a nightmare.
(DIR) Post #AMa1uIUgx6w1Ez1sK8 by sancas@fosstodon.org
2022-08-16T08:39:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev in short. We (Devs) are the only ones comfortable with plain text and CLI, preventing others to enjoy SSG 😂
(DIR) Post #AMa45n2puDNd5Nbkky by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-16T09:04:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sancas hahaha love it! Thanks for the TL;DR.
(DIR) Post #AMaQRrU8H8skDfIzD6 by campegg@mastodon.social
2022-08-16T13:14:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev FWIW, I've only ever seen SSGs marketed as "fast", not "simple" (simpler—for a dev—than maintaining a CMS+database, maybe?).
(DIR) Post #AMsI2dvTwacMn7TftY by bauripalash@fosstodon.org
2022-08-25T04:05:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kev I do agree. SSGs are not at all easy to use for non-techie users, for this when I wanted my father to have a website for his poems, I went to use WriteFreely, so he can upload his poems on his own without the fuss of commit, push, merge conflicts and stuff
(DIR) Post #AMsNUVbayPe4rdHaD2 by kev@fosstodon.org
2022-08-25T05:06:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bauripalash I don’t think they’re easy to use, full stop. I’m a techie and find them awkward to use. They do have there place, obviously, they’re just not for me.