Post AMPSW5j91w2n37D7rc by liwott@nerdica.net
(DIR) More posts by liwott@nerdica.net
(DIR) Post #ALwpUtpazx3BC8VWgC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-28T10:46:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
A lot of people still seem confused about the fact that the fediverse and the matrix network are (for now) totally separate things, using different protocols. Matrix is listed here as the fediverse alternative to Discord:https://cleberg.io/blog/fediverse/#fediverse #matrix
(DIR) Post #ALxz8JN34P3uRYyyqO by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-28T11:41:26.127565Z
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There's no such thing as a fediverse network, what people call fediverse network is Activity Pub network which is a part of fediverse like how Web is a part of internet not the entire internet.Matrix does federation thought matrix protocol so it's part of the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #ALxz8JpPMxkNrWFd32 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-29T00:09:30Z
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@colinsmatt11I guess you can define 'fediverse' however you want. But the common understanding has been that it's a somewhat unified meta-network made up of social media platforms federating through AP, Zot, Diaspora, and OStatus. If you include all federating protocols you'd also have to include email, IRC, UseNet, and probably dozens of others that, like matrix, don't interact with each other in any way. IMHO that stretches the definition so far it breaks it's usefulness. YMMV ☺️#fediverse
(DIR) Post #ALy1a4a9qZDAauTo4e by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T00:17:17.087071Z
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Email doesn't federate, it's just domain based addressing.I don't use IRC so no idea if it federates or not but I have never heard of anyone talking about it.Pretty sure UseNet is dead.And as for the other many protocols their either dead or nobody is using them.If they were being used then I would consider them part of the fediverse.It certainly stretches the definition, there's no denying in that. But it's still technically correct.
(DIR) Post #ALy1a52W97te0rkSHI by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-07-29T00:37:16.051956Z
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@colinsmatt11 >I don't use IRC so no idea if it federates or not but I have never heard of anyone talking about it.You can load balance an irc network with almost as many servers as you like as long as you use the same ircd software and compatible versions.There's also Pylink, which allows bridging channels even between different ircd's.Come to pissnet if you want to see "federated" irc.>Pretty sure UseNet is dead.It's not.>And as for the other many protocols their either dead or nobody is using them.*they're plus I'm sure if at least 1 person uses a protocol, it's not correct that "nobody is using them.".
(DIR) Post #ALy8FRo8zzhcE18MZU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-29T01:51:42Z
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@colinsmatt11> Email doesn't federate, it's just domain based addressing.I have no idea why you think this is significantly different enough from what AP or matrix does to require a different term. Email is the most common example used when trying to explain federation to newbies, so again your personal definitions are different from common usage.> technically correctYou mean correct according to your uncommon personal definition? Fair enough
(DIR) Post #ALy8zy7hBQxploShRg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-29T02:00:05Z
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@colinsmatt11> Email doesn't federate, it's just domain based addressing.I have no idea why you think this is different enough from what AP or matrix does to require a different term. Email is the most common example used when trying to explain federation to newbies, so again your personal definitions seem to be quite different from common usage.
(DIR) Post #ALyAAKJ9ehdJQQKC7U by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-29T02:13:15Z
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@colinsmatt11> technically correctThere's no RFC for 'fediverse', or we could quickly resolve this debate by quoting from it. It's an informal term defined by common usage, and including matrix is uncommon. Another way to look at it is, what's a useful definition? Saying that things in the fediverse can interact with each other seems useful, which excludes matrix, at least for now. I'm not sure what purpose your definition serves.
(DIR) Post #ALyBuMsWWxl8fkO1AG by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T02:32:48.565112Z
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Well you make a good point, email is part of the fediverse and I was wrong saying that it wasn't.
(DIR) Post #ALyETg1DYkSE4vPvUG by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T02:26:39.491562Z
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Matrix servers do interact with other Matrix servers through federation.And if you are going bring the argument that it doesn't interact with AP network then that's true but the AP network software only partially interact with other software on the same network.For a few examples,Mastodon doesn't support emoji reactions, where pleroma and misskey does.Pleroma and Misskey support Direct Messages but it doesn't federate between them.Pixelfed has "stories" (expiring posts) whoch also doesn't federates with anything other than itself.You still can't comment on WriteFreely posts from other software.You can't subscribe to a lemmy or lotide from anything other than them.There are definitely more than just these but you get my point.They perfectly federate if they're the same software, so does Matrix.
(DIR) Post #ALyETggh4XdC9Yp38S by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T02:39:46.935333Z
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I think we should conclude this debate,The issue is regarding definitions of fediverse.So if fediverse is just about federation then I think my definition is correct because Matrix does federation.But if fediverse is about both federation and social media then my definition in incorrect, due to Matrix being an Instant Messenger thus not qualifying as a social media.What are your thoughts about it?
(DIR) Post #ALyEThBXDsIjhDFgCu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-07-29T03:01:23Z
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@colinsmatt11> I think we should conclude this debateYou seem genuinely interested in finding common ground. I'm happy to continue so long as our posts remain respectful, and we can avoid going around in circles and getting frustrated with each other. I'll give your last round of posts some thought and come back to them soon.
(DIR) Post #ALyFC4oIkIuHi5Xz4C by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T03:03:06.728235Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Thank you for being so understanding, that's rare in today's world.
(DIR) Post #AMPSW5j91w2n37D7rc by liwott@nerdica.net
2022-07-29T05:32:58Z
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@colinsmatt11 @strypeybut the AP network software only partially interact with other software on the same network.Right, but they do interact. I have never seen anyone defining the fediverse as a network where every single custom action of a given software is understood by the others.Of course, it would be better in the future if they understand that there was an action, even if they don't interpret it.The important thing is that you can follow and comment what happens on other software.You still can't comment on WriteFreely posts from other software.I don't know about that, so maybe it is not yet appropriate to call it part of the fediverse yet. One-way subscription is not enough imo, otherwise you would say RSS is part of the fediverse as you can follow them from Friendica. Although it might be different as I do not know whether it recognizes whem two accounts follow the same feed.You can't subscribe to a lemmyYou can. The interaction is not that seemless from Mastodon, but from Friendica
(DIR) Post #AMPSW6KMnXomuYcqsi by colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com
2022-07-29T06:11:47.060836Z
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Developer vs. user terminology While “ActivityPub” may mean something to people with a technical bent, it’s probably not the best way to convey to site members what your software is and does.“Fediverse” is probably a bit better, in that at least if you look it up you’re slightly more likely to find something basically readable. Still, it’s worth looking around at how other software are handling the question of presenting the ideas of federation and ActivityPub to their users.https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/guide-for-new-activitypub-implementers/479They use Fediverse as a marketing term for ActivityPub because it’s easier to explain to users.So anything other than ActivityPub doesn’t matter unless it has support for ActivityPub.Guess that should end this.
(DIR) Post #AMPSW6usbn1cjni0nI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-08-11T06:15:58Z
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@colinsmatt11The term 'fediverse' was coined as a consequence of a number of projects - including Mastodon - implementing OStatus to federate with GNU Social. This contrasted with 'the federation' of projects using the Diaspora variant of OStatus. When Friendica and Hubzilla implemented OStatus too, the latter term dropped out of use and people started referring to the whole patchwork as 'the fediverse'. Most of the active projects implementing AP only reinforced this.@liwott
(DIR) Post #AMPTJQspA2OIqyGY9A by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-08-11T06:24:55Z
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@colinsmatt11For those interested in the history of the fediverse, here's an archived version of a piece I wrote on it back in 2017:https://web.archive.org/web/20190617225539/https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/blog/2017/04/01/a-brief-history-of-the-gnu-social-fediverse-and-the-federation@liwott #fediverse #TechHistory