Post AL9fTHLcz2kKXY5Iiu by inference@plr.inferencium.net
(DIR) More posts by inference@plr.inferencium.net
(DIR) Post #AL98oeBRyjesxSuCqO by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T11:26:46Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 I’m not a cybersecurity expert, but I know enough that doing something like this may as well be malicious; the result is the same. Our work server had an issue with the clock sync getting disabled, and it broke a key part of functionality and verification. Internal only, but still a huge impact.You just don’t mess around with clock settings for any reason, ever.
(DIR) Post #AL98okMJ1HuI6s1xb6 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T11:28:05.533855Z
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@pete @futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 Facts.
(DIR) Post #AL9KN9gyR7FA1OJ8wC by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T11:38:44Z
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@inference @404zzz @pete @thebiologist1117 I would consider this as something that causes severe impact maybe, but I don't think it was done with a malicious intend. Come on man, if manjaro wanted to do malicious things they could've done lots of other things, lol 😂 And they would try to hide it, not make a big scene by telling all users to change their clocks, that's dumb.
(DIR) Post #AL9KNAGQJJbFnKtSC0 by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T12:19:17Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 It wasn’t malicious, but it was deliberately and willingly incompetent. Enough that it should give anyone using or considering Manjaro a moment of pause. I wouldn’t have used the distro regardless of this incident, but it would’ve been a dealbreaker if I had. No second chance from me for something like this. I recall Mint having a breach of their ISO downloads and downplaying it I believe. Same result for me, so I’m not picking on Manjaro.
(DIR) Post #AL9KNAkuTxzDJt9niC by thebiologist1117@mk.nixnet.social
2022-07-04T12:46:02.336Z
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@inference@plr.inferencium.net What's the best alternative to Manjaro...?
(DIR) Post #AL9KNB9izhpsYqlcOG by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T13:37:30.713147Z
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@thebiologist1117 @pete If you want Arch-based, use Arch (I prefer Artix because no systemd).
(DIR) Post #AL9KfiDgnmisJsSVai by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T13:40:53.402266Z
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@pete @futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 That's exactly how it is. It doesn't have to be malicious. It annoys me more that it *wasn't* malicious, because that's false sense of security, and users are trusting a distro which doesn't have a clue about what it's doing. It's putting its users in serious danger.It reminds me of Fairphone which uses publicly available Google test keys to sign their stock OS, completely annihilating the Android verified boot system. That key is supposed to be unique that OS, private, and stored offline where no one can access them, not publicly available and a test key used by billions of people. Goodbye security, privacy, and encryption, if you use a Fairphone with stock OS.
(DIR) Post #AL9L4ZgLgMHb50iehs by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T13:09:01Z
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@pete @404zzz @thebiologist1117 TBH I've never heard of this incident before @inference mentioned it, it would be nice if you could provide some link or something where I can read more about this. I wonder what actually happened there, because I feel like we're missing some context here 🤔BTW, I wouldn't blame Mint if we they had a breach, they were attacked here, its like blaming the victim. But if they downplayed the seriousness of the attack then that's not good 🙁
(DIR) Post #AL9L4aCFljnsfxe8R6 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T13:45:23.171474Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @404zzz @thebiologist1117 https://www.networkworld.com/article/2263867/security-implications-of-the-humble-computer-clock.htmlhttps://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2017/09/time-synchronization-security-trust/https://www.netnod.se/blog/what-network-time-security-and-why-it-important
(DIR) Post #AL9LMflnmnJlAptqym by thebiologist1117@mk.nixnet.social
2022-07-04T13:41:20.880Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss@fosstodon.org I found a Reddit post about it. It's called "Manjaro forgot to upgrade their SSL certificate, suggest users get around it by changing their system clocks. Wow."
(DIR) Post #AL9M2GfFWDTNTLfXJw by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T13:49:34Z
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@inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete No no I understand that changing the clock is bad for security, I was asking for sources where I can read more about the incident with manjaro, to see what exactly happened. Maybe I should search on reddit for that post Emilie was talking about 🤔
(DIR) Post #AL9M2HLmy3V5bHZVcu by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T13:56:11.398375Z
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@futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete Manjaro security issues:https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/Archived Manjaro page telling users to naively set clocks back to break security which Manjaro should have been bothered to deal with:https://web.archive.org/web/20150409040851/https://manjaro.github.io/expired_SSL_certificate/Reddit post to confirm the certificate expiry:https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4inrut/manjaros_ssl_certificate_expired_again/
(DIR) Post #AL9OxnzGUu0XEgawbY by roko@social.trom.tf
2022-07-04T14:23:28Z
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@inference@futureisfoss@404zzz@thebiologist1117@peteEveryone will have a different threat model regarding their security/privacy, and some people may use certain things for ideological reasons like freedom/trust. Remember when I told you we have a fork of manjaro, this is it - https://tromjaro.com, here for example the main point of that distro is to be free of any kinds of trades. So while I understand that your threat model is higher, you shouldn't be applying the same standards for everyone. Someone using a fairphone maybe doing it because its good for the environment, I understand that this is not an excuse for that company to compromise on security, but one simple mistake doesn't mean the entire thing is worthless and now you can't trust them. If you really are concerned about such security issues then you can let the respected parties know about it and maybe help them fix it (since you know a lot more about security). This is much better than simply complaining about something, at least this is the principle that I follow when I see something like this, ie, when the people involved are not malicious but just didn't know about something and made a mistake. So I just help them correct that mistake instead of forever complaining about them for making that mistake.One thing to note though, I'm talking about FOSS projects here which are mostly run by volunteers, fairphone might not be the best example because they're a company. I only mentioned them because you talked about them in your previous message.
(DIR) Post #AL9Oxor9GZ6pvnnyam by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T14:28:58.525601Z
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@roko @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @404zzz Threat model doesn't matter when the security implementations are broken by poor knowledge and design.In case you don't realise, verified boot trusts the key to verify that the OS has not been tampered with or backdoored. It would be better to not use verified boot, because at least you would not be fooled into thinking your OS is safe when it's clearly compromised out of the box.Saying a security implementation is fine when it's broken is saying it's fine that your house's doors don't lock or your car doesn't have brakes, despite threat model being unrelated.If you aren't going to implement a feature properly, don't implement it at all, so users are misled into thinking it works when it doesn't.
(DIR) Post #AL9PmaNCsBe3mY0VyS by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T14:31:15Z
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@inference @thebiologist1117 @pete Em, I think you're just being paranoid. You don't have to change your entire linux distro for something manjaro did in the past that didn't even affect you (because you didn't have to change your clock right).I personally use Artix linux, but I wouldn't recommend you use that unless you're familiar with the linux terminal and have some basic knowledge about init systems.
(DIR) Post #AL9Pmb8M2tMK8m4ASm by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T14:38:10.609221Z
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@futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @pete You really trust a group of people who have made 100 mistakes with your personal private data and don't give a shit about it when it happens, brushing it off like you don't matter and they can do what they want?It reminds me of Lennart Poettering of systemd. This is exactly why I don't use shitstemd (not a misspelling).If that's what you think, you're beyond saving at this point.
(DIR) Post #AL9QyfdJF8bdWXrjF2 by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T14:47:28Z
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@inference @thebiologist1117 @peteI also don't use systemd, lol 😂. but I don't spread hate about other volunteering projects simply because I don't agree with them.
(DIR) Post #AL9QygOSPqJtslvNjM by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T14:51:32.594399Z
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@futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @pete This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. What you're saying right now is it's fine to put cyanide in someone's coffee because the coffee was made by a "volunteering" group.You are one of the people who cause this lack of security, and lack of privacy due to that, in FOSS projects, which is the reason it will never become mainstream.People like you are the reason I wrote this:https://inferencium.net/blog/foss-is-working-against-itself.htmlI can't put it any simpler that this, because you clearly don't have an idea, not a single clue, about how security works:Signing an OS with a publicly available signing key, which is exactly what Fairphone has done, is *literally* the same as posting every user's password and PINs on the internet for the entire world to see.
(DIR) Post #AL9R9kHQJ2Ip7buS0W by roko@social.trom.tf
2022-07-04T14:46:48Z
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@inference@futureisfoss@404zzz@thebiologist1117@peteSaying a security implementation is fine when it's broken is saying it's fine that your house's doors don't lock or your car doesn't have brakesI never said that its fine, I just pointed out that you're not doing anything to fix any of these problems or help in any way, just complaining about them. I can understand you doing this for a company like fairphone because maybe you paid the money and now expect them to solve the problem for you, but when it comes to volunteering projects simply complaining without helping or at least suggesting them any solutions is rude.
(DIR) Post #AL9R9kMO0aGxN0EPk8 by AmpBenzScientist@qoto.org
2022-07-04T14:46:02Z
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@pete @futureisfoss @inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 That brings back memories of Windows Vista refusing to update because it put itself in the wrong time zone.
(DIR) Post #AL9R9l0naKbBOL8gjY by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T14:53:32.396341Z
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@roko @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @404zzz I don't care if they're a trillion dollar company or a 2 man volunteering organisation. If they don't know what they're doing, they shouldn't be doing it.Putting users in danger is not excusable by anyone. Is it okay to accidentally kill someone by driving a car when I don't have a license or know how to drive? In your opinion, yes, because that's exactly what Fairphone are doing with their users' data.
(DIR) Post #AL9RCRTafsGPfht1eq by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T14:54:03.679225Z
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@AmpBenzScientist @pete @futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 Windows Vista did it right. It should fail and warn about that, not allow it or tell the user to bypass and break their own security.
(DIR) Post #AL9REFrYp7zCETxkZM by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T14:54:23.760872Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @inference @thebiologist1117 @pete it's not about disagreeing with them, it's about their complete incompetence about the security of their users. if a project is irresponsible and insecure, it shouldn't be trusted, same as proprietary software
(DIR) Post #AL9SE0c1cngSt78uS8 by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:02:47Z
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@inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete @roko Are you seriously comparing this to putting cyanide in people's coffees and killing people by hitting them with a car ? I understand that security & privacy are important, but I wouldn't compare changing your system clock for a small period of time to such such horrible things.At this point its best for us to agree to disagree, because we have different point of views about these things 🤔
(DIR) Post #AL9SE155siw6LGk7lI by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:05:32.626633Z
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@futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete @roko Again, is it okay for me to drive a car without knowing how to?Is it okay for me to tell someone to handle dangerous chemicals if I don't know what I'm doing?Is it okay to hold a gun if I don't know how to handle it?Fairphone are literally saying "fuck you" to their users. Publicly available signing keys... Publicly available encryption keys... That's a sick joke as much as the rest. Stop pretending you know what you're doing, and leave it to people who do.I use logic, fact, and evidence, not emotion, so yes, we will always disagree on this matter. If they don't know, they should be doing it. Simple as that.
(DIR) Post #AL9SJKxNPcqLQtfcY4 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:06:30.794546Z
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@futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete @roko Again, is it okay for me to drive a car without knowing how to?Is it okay for me to tell someone to handle dangerous chemicals if I don't know what I'm doing?Is it okay to hold a gun if I don't know how to handle it?Fairphone are literally saying "fuck you" to their users. Publicly available signing keys... Publicly available encryption keys... That's a sick joke as much as the rest. Stop pretending you know what you're doing, and leave it to people who do.I use logic, fact, and evidence, not emotion, so yes, we will always disagree on this matter. If they don't know, they shouldn't be doing it. Simple as that.
(DIR) Post #AL9SrfMS3VJyYtlh4a by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:09:45Z
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@straw @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference I know it looks like I'm defending their actions, but that's not what's happening here. This is how I look at these things:If I see any volunteering projects like manjaro or systemd doing something wrong, I will criticize their actions or maybe their software for what it is, but not the people behind them because they were not being malicious. I think maybe you guys just misunderstood me and thought I'm in support of these projects, but I'm not.
(DIR) Post #AL9Srk4YXSyfAqQyNE by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:12:44.703183Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference ah well, are you talking about their treasury incident? because that's directly related to the management of the project.
(DIR) Post #AL9T343mZ9TULjTGd6 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:14:46.888985Z
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@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 Pretty much this. It's about how they are doing things wrongly and their users are believing it's right. I'd say it's even worse than proprietary software, because at least you're cautious with proprietary, but you'll trust open source, meaning you're in even more danger.
(DIR) Post #AL9TNQjDzkU0RiZBR3 by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:18:10Z
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@inference @straw @thebiologist1117 @pete I told you that you can call them incompetent for what happened, but remember that we're talking about one or two few incidents here and there. Asking someone who's not very comfortable with the terminal to go use arch/artix is exactly like your example - asking someone to drive a car when they don't know the first thing about it.
(DIR) Post #AL9TS7k0190f0OAPXk by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:19:19.552352Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @inference @thebiologist1117 @pete I agree - there is the user-friendliness side of it. but a distro that doesn't care about its users' security shouldn't be recommended imo, even if it's user-friendly
(DIR) Post #AL9TTDeLXAtNcY2rAm by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:19:29.898182Z
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@futureisfoss @straw @thebiologist1117 @pete Again, if they don't know what they're doing, they shouldn't be doing it. You are massively underplaying how serious the SSL issue is. It literally destroys security on the entire PC, for every program, and every file, not only their website. It's careless and reckless.
(DIR) Post #AL9Tl8qq761Rx1R1OK by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:22:05Z
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@inference @straw @thebiologist1117 @pete As an Artix user myself, I have no problem with more people using this little distro, but they should know what they're in for. Manjaro was my the only GUI distro I used for a long time, that's where I became more familiar with the terminal before moving to Artix.
(DIR) Post #AL9UThA9uAbl6liRxw by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:27:44Z
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@straw @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference We're talking about one incident here, and that too didn't even affect her, I don't know if this can be considered as a reason to move distros, that's up to her. Unless you're familiar with the terminal or want to become familiar with it, you can simply use any other GUI distro instead of arch/artix.
(DIR) Post #AL9UWJm1K39RR6fyTI by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:31:17.295814Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference Manjaro is a bad idea, that's just something that should be noted.
(DIR) Post #AL9UishLIdHHEBTjpg by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:32:40Z
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@inference @straw @thebiologist1117 @pete I never tried to underplay anything, I would've 100% told Em to leave manjaro now if they were still doing that, but are they ? This big security threat that you talk about, it just doesn't exist anymore, so for now at least there is no reason for her to worry about......
(DIR) Post #AL9UitFjEmmcwpZCQi by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:33:33.360432Z
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@futureisfoss @inference @thebiologist1117 @pete it's a pattern of irresponsibility and negligence that has happened multiple times, by a supposedly "secure and private" OS.
(DIR) Post #AL9V4u3Wvp5JoHMEQS by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:35:40Z
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@straw @pete @thebiologist1117I don't know their entire history or anything, everything I said was based on what @inference just told here.
(DIR) Post #AL9V6EJJ6yQauxMzOy by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:37:46.678780Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/
(DIR) Post #AL9V9i8SgA60HrxNU8 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:38:23.336040Z
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@futureisfoss @straw @pete @thebiologist1117 It wasn't just 1 incident. One of the links I gave you showed that they made the same mistake THREE times. You cannot defend that.Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me three times. At that point, it's intentional, not an accident.
(DIR) Post #AL9VELGB9nncmum5rM by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:39:13.991686Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfoss @inference @pete @thebiologist1117 see the recommendations section for user-friendly and less irresponsible alternatives to Manjaro
(DIR) Post #AL9VGATYDwddv6trtI by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:39:33.519556Z
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@futureisfoss @straw @thebiologist1117 @pete They did it 3 times. Are you telling me it won't happen again?I'll bet all of my money, and you don't have to bet anything. A one-sided bet is good enough for me.
(DIR) Post #AL9VhgYr2SYXFaVC0e by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T15:32:34Z
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@AmpBenzScientist @futureisfoss @inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 😂 Ah, Vista. They still haven’t lived that OS down after all these years. I’ll just leave this here:https://youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno
(DIR) Post #AL9Vhh0rMKxQeRbYf2 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:44:30.062965Z
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@pete @AmpBenzScientist @futureisfoss @404zzz @thebiologist1117 Vista wasn't bad. It was better than XP.Vista was the first release of Windows to include any useful security, and is the basis of every version of Windows since. Even Windows 11 is heavily based on Vista.
(DIR) Post #AL9WKLmYEEle6CLTe4 by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:49:01Z
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@inference @pete @straw @thebiologist1117 If this happens, Em just remember to not change your clock. I wish changing your distro was an easy task but its not, that's why I didn't recommend changing the distro for such simple things when there are easier solutions.
(DIR) Post #AL9WKM9ErsupEYxb0a by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T15:51:29.509385Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @straw @thebiologist1117 In life, you don't win by taking emotional sides or being lazy; you win by being a renegade and switching sides when the current side shows its incompetence or goes against you.Switching distro is nowhere near as much of an issue as allowing these people to make such security and privacy sins. I wouldn't trust that they're not doing anything weird in the back-end, either. It's not only SSL.
(DIR) Post #AL9WmKAFpw2ZBqltKa by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T15:56:34.882269Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @inference >BTW, I wouldn't blame Mint if we they had a breach, they were attacked here, its like blaming the victim. well if someone leaves their door wide open for someone to burglarize their house, yeah that's... that's their fault. they should've seen it coming.now replace "their house" with a project that hundreds of thousands of people use, expecting security and privacy, that just gets easily breached like that.
(DIR) Post #AL9XRVCfhNvDIeXN2m by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:59:30Z
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@straw @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference @404zzz Now the real question is - did they leave their door wide ? Unless there is proof of this everything else are just speculations. And you don't have to leave your door wide open for someone to break in.
(DIR) Post #AL9XRX12xZoMvB77Ca by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T16:04:01.823612Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @thebiologist1117 @inference @404zzz it seems like it - sure, these things happen but if your service that thousands of people depend on for their daily use gets breached, then don't even share the reason of the breach, it's safe to assume you did
(DIR) Post #AL9Xb1yFEwXlX3Kh6m by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T16:05:45.360990Z
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@futureisfoss @404zzz @inference @pete @thebiologist1117 this isn't just some small thing 20 people used and someone forgot to update it for 3 years, it's what people use as the gateway for everything they do digitally.I'm not aware of the details about any Mint breach, I haven't even heard about anything like that - but even in a hypothetical scenario, there should be full transparency and overhaul
(DIR) Post #AL9XdaxM8RJ8cL8jIW by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T16:06:13.166447Z
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@inference @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 disagre e
(DIR) Post #AL9ZctskU59CvumV0a by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T15:54:14Z
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@inference @pete @straw @thebiologist1117 Whether you choose to trust them or not is up to you. And and its up to Em if she wants to distro hop or not.
(DIR) Post #AL9ZcvIJEXBhJTkQUK by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:28:27.795925Z
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@futureisfoss @pete @straw @thebiologist1117 And I tried to force them how?
(DIR) Post #AL9ZqzD9T3BnW02cVs by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:31:02.031262Z
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@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @404zzz Finally, someone who understands.The people organisations running such distros shouldn't be let off the hook because you feel bad for them. They did wrong, they get exposed. I don't care if it's open source or proprietary, a kid or a professional; if they don't know what they're doing, or they are too incompetent to protect their users, they should suffer the consequences and everyone has a right to know.
(DIR) Post #AL9a08fneo0TT2o0O0 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:32:41.164500Z
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@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @404zzz The worst types of people are the ones who try to cover up what happened.
(DIR) Post #AL9aQ7NP6JWGyVaYsK by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:37:20.643279Z
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@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 With what? You don't know how verified boot works?
(DIR) Post #AL9bEZNZGIFmIpirPE by jmw150@qoto.org
2022-07-04T16:46:29Z
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@inference @pete @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss I am fortunate to have never understood windows. As a kid I was not too poor to have access to MacOS. As an adult, I am not too incompetent to use an open operating system.
(DIR) Post #AL9bXs5XvQ4fpZUs08 by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T16:43:50Z
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@inference @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss That’s true, it was more the bugginess and hardware compatibility issues that plagued its reputation. XP tried to be the next Windows 98 SE—which was solid as a rock—and failed miserably at it. It wasn’t until at least SP2 that it improved enough, but by then that ship had sailed.All of this is ignoring the fact XP looked like a Fischer Price toy. Whomever came up with that digital vomit should question their life choices. :)
(DIR) Post #AL9bXsoZE25S5CYpAu by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:49:57.157057Z
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@pete @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Luna was the worst Windows UI ever. I wasn't a fan of Aero, but Luna was literally gross; thinking about it gives me a headache and makes me nauseous. Windows Classic is best UI; in fact, whenever I use a GUI, I make it Windows Classic-like.Vista introduced UAC, services sandboxing, BitLocker, RAM caching, and much more. It was only "bad" because it was incompatible (for good reason; backwards compatibility is a curse for security advancement) and was Microsoft's first ever major attempt at security, as well as a huge change in codebase. Vista wasn't bad, 7 just has the advantage of having 3 years of tweaks to Vista's codebase. It's obvious, like any other software project which involves massive changes, that the first version implements, and the next versions tweak and optimise. That's all 7 was, an optimisation, not much else.Personally, I think Vista should go down as one of, if not the, best Windows ever, because of the security it brought to the table.
(DIR) Post #AL9bxI1ocPWPWNs8zQ by thebiologist1117@mk.nixnet.social
2022-07-04T16:53:55.328Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@inference@plr.inferencium.net Vista was my first OS ever, on my mom's computer.
(DIR) Post #AL9c3g04P9QDbe6LFQ by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T16:55:43.572528Z
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@thebiologist1117 It was hated because it was just a trending meme at the time, and still is. No one who behaves seriously would be thinking Vista was bad in any way, other than perhaps its bloated Aero UI.
(DIR) Post #AL9cHRPlQjoQQLgPDs by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T16:58:14.439576Z
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@inference @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz 7 was better
(DIR) Post #AL9cJDtget6l50Wr8S by getimiskon@udongein.xyz
2022-07-04T16:58:32.613158Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@inference Luna was literally made like a toy for children. Also I think that's the point Microsoft started to make their UI less customizable. I think the Windows Classic UI could be improved over the years instead of being abandoned.Windows Vista had lots of issues, but I agree that it brought a lot of improvements, although I think the OS could use less resources than it used. If Vista had the improvements Windows 7 had, it could be the best Windows ever released.
(DIR) Post #AL9crUIGCgo9mIMTK4 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:04:42.781699Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@getimiskon Yes, Windows Classic was the X of Windows and had lots of customisation. However, Vista was the first Windows to have proper security which was more than just a simple password. It included UAC (which I love and turn to maximum most of the time, not off like everyone else), proper user isolation, all sorts of sandboxing, and allowed 7 to exist. Everyone loved 7, but not Vista, which I find to be a complete fallacy when 7 is just an optimised Vista, even using the exact same codebase. It's simply not fair to say Vista was bad and 7 was great, when all 7 was was a tweaked Vista and had the advantage of time to improve what was flawed with Vista.Vista basically dumped the code and features, 7 just patched them up to run better. If it wasn't for Vista, we'd still be stuck with effectively zero security on Windows.
(DIR) Post #AL9dEEJllboQtHuaQq by AmpBenzScientist@qoto.org
2022-07-04T17:06:48Z
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@pete @inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Window 2000 Professional was ugly but it was quick and mostly reliable. I remember ME and I loved it. Windows Media Player with internet radio and the malware taught me about system restore by using system restore to restore itself.
(DIR) Post #AL9dEEkMAl50DkLosC by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:08:49.371527Z
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@AmpBenzScientist @pete @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Windows 95-2000 UI was best UI. Not only would I use Windows Classic if it was still available today on Windows (was removed with Windows 8), I do use it on Linux and BSD etc when using GUIs. Windows Classic was simple, straight to the point, and just got work done; no gloss, no resource drain, just raw functionality.
(DIR) Post #AL9eOvL0m3mpAI9ib2 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:21:58.921964Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz Only because it had 3 years to be optimised and tweaked. Was still just Vista codebase.Vista dumped the features and security, 7 patched it up.
(DIR) Post #AL9eb8xTxXM6soyd9s by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T17:24:12.605425Z
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@inference @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz so 7 IS better + it has better stuff and like cool cd boxes
(DIR) Post #AL9edaGrNnZsAeCjpI by thebiologist1117@mk.nixnet.social
2022-07-04T17:24:29.783Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@inference@plr.inferencium.net It reminds me of Xfce!
(DIR) Post #AL9egjtE4p8Gs6edCS by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:25:11.741227Z
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@thebiologist1117 Yes, and I remember making Xfce look like that when I used it on Qubes OS. There's even a theme built into Xfce for Windows Classic.
(DIR) Post #AL9f2BfNzyKB6KPMHI by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T17:27:30Z
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@inference @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss 💯this. I still have to use the ugly Windows (7?)-based UI on my work software running under Server 2012, and it’s an absolute eyesore. I’d give anything to enable the Classic UI if it was still available.
(DIR) Post #AL9f2CCi04ymlfzyDY by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:29:03.712173Z
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@pete @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss It is. Windows 7 and Server 2012 R2 were the final versions of Windows to have Windows Classic.
(DIR) Post #AL9fCBAIiXquRSdHu4 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:30:53.251880Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz CD boxes? If you're talking the sleeve, Vista had a 90 degree pull-out case, not only a sleeve.
(DIR) Post #AL9fKBStUDRJgl98kK by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T17:32:20.797564Z
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@inference @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz
(DIR) Post #AL9fLLZROpSRJulNwm by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T17:31:40Z
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@inference @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Wait, the last time I looked at the interface options I didn’t see Classic in there. Where can I find this hidden gem?
(DIR) Post #AL9fLM9bEONh83gGJ6 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:32:30.821988Z
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@pete @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Windows Classic is default on Windows Server OSes.Are you talking the narrower bars and such, or the grey, blocky theme?
(DIR) Post #AL9fTHLcz2kKXY5Iiu by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:33:58.358926Z
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@pete @404zzz @AmpBenzScientist @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117
(DIR) Post #AL9fwbKPmA02uFV0Ea by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:39:15.096238Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz Vista had a cooler factor. 7 was more subtle.
(DIR) Post #AL9g3KREyEEYYAtqGe by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-04T17:40:30.593320Z
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@inference @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz I remember 7 looking different
(DIR) Post #AL9gCToDV4VwDd0hIe by pete@fedi.pimoore.ca
2022-07-04T17:39:24Z
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@inference @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss Mine has the ugly turquoise coloured windows and taskbar, definitely not Classic. I need to do some digging when I’m back from vacation.
(DIR) Post #AL9gCUPRGgHw54QQJk by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:42:07.905637Z
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@pete @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @futureisfoss IIRC: Control Panel > Appearance > Windows ClassicIf you want to change the taskbar from the double height 7 taskbar to the half height Vista and older taskbar, right click the taskbar and change it to show small icons and also the full window title. After that, you have both Windows Classic UI and Windows 2000-style narrowness.
(DIR) Post #AL9gI9jn2Q7phpe8Gm by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-04T17:43:10.490213Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@straw @pete @futureisfoss @thebiologist1117 @AmpBenzScientist @404zzz Vista cases were plastic and had a 90 degree rotating case. 7 had a sleeve with a more traditional opening case like most DVD cases.
(DIR) Post #ALAn8ouZzcJXLX9GBk by Graycot@fosstodon.org
2022-07-04T22:34:45Z
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@inference @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete @roko @futureisfoss Inference, I have a question. How high is your horse?
(DIR) Post #ALAn8pOMCu8Kpt52bQ by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-07-05T06:34:36.421264Z
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@Graycot @404zzz @thebiologist1117 @pete @roko @futureisfoss I don't ride one. Unlike 99% of this planet, I stay my lane and know how shit works.Are you a rider? How high is yours?