Post AJdfonuFXOJ7FuE9Ue by deepbluev7@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by deepbluev7@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AJcRXmeHMoojuqmrsO by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-19T19:00:21Z
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People that use #matrix please explain why you use it and not #xmpp. Besides the most common argument: it's more widely used.Anyways, I'm still glad it's not Whatsapp or Telegram.
(DIR) Post #AJcVMA0f5LSwi6yAt6 by fbievan@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-19T19:43:04Z
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@meeee well I would if I used one that much is xmpp is fully developed, and well matrix can introduce more things in the near future.
(DIR) Post #AJcYZQwxiEdCsRGAvQ by deepbluev7@fosstodon.org
2022-05-19T20:19:05Z
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@meeee In XMPP a multi user chat goes down, if the hosting server goes down. In #matrix only users that are on the server that goes down can't send messages anymore, but everyone else will still be able to chat in that room. That makes it much more feasible to start public rooms on random servers, because the room will live on as long as it has admins and active servers in it.
(DIR) Post #AJcZVUDNjREDnZcbgW by surak@mastodon.gnomos.org
2022-05-19T20:29:33Z
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@meeee I could never get anyone else to move to XMPP, but I convinced a few friends (not many) to try matrix.Higher success rate :PAlso, bridges. Having Whatsapp without having to use their stupid client is just fantastic.
(DIR) Post #AJcZjfxsqHiCIL8ehc by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-19T20:32:08Z
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@deepbluev7 I didn't know that! It's actually really good. Mucs in xmpp should be that way, at least for public rooms
(DIR) Post #AJcZo0YKEu6RIyFXiC by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-19T20:32:55Z
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@surak Interesting. Do you know any reason that may have that effect?
(DIR) Post #AJcZu5XebQZYW3ppVQ by deepbluev7@fosstodon.org
2022-05-19T20:34:01Z
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@meeee There were some proposals for fully federated MUCs in XMPP, but they seem to have never really progressed far. Otoh, that is why XMPP is lighter. It doesn't need to deal with all the federated eventually consistent trust and state resolution.
(DIR) Post #AJcZv4L0Z3hb4VO5lQ by surak@mastodon.gnomos.org
2022-05-19T20:34:11Z
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@meeee well, element looks more user friendly than all the xmpp clients I can think off 🤔
(DIR) Post #AJcdYnCO0RODMTzJom by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-19T21:14:59Z
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@surak Yeah, but it still is pretty buggy, at least it was for me. And the Play Store version uses Google Services, right? It's pretty bloated client, but it's friendly lol
(DIR) Post #AJcv54haACwO8NYiKO by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-05-20T00:31:18Z
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@meeeeYou're going to get the same sort of rationalisation that people do when you ask them why they use Windows.
(DIR) Post #AJczX2MEsAKYmxAGWW by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T01:21:11Z
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@101101000 good point
(DIR) Post #AJdG4BtA3XJLAgOWXY by alteredspecifis@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T04:26:26Z
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@meeee @surak Considering so many people swear by discord being the best thinger *ever* it is a great leap in the right direction.With regards to google play issues that's what you can get around with different clients.IMHO matrix (predominantly element) is just hitting its stride when comming to usability and functionality.
(DIR) Post #AJdPIPzZJeqKYOFb6m by Muto@social.tchncs.de
2022-05-20T06:09:47Z
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@meeee @deepbluev7 not sure if I want to have that on xmpp as it is much more resource intensive
(DIR) Post #AJdfonuFXOJ7FuE9Ue by deepbluev7@fosstodon.org
2022-05-20T09:15:00Z
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@Muto @meeee I think that is a reasonable stance to take. Matrix and XMPP are different and it makes sense to have different standards with different tradeoffs (as long as there is a bridge). For me that feature is something I don't want to miss though!
(DIR) Post #AJdgJ5Brq8gFY5uE2y by krille@metalhead.club
2022-05-20T09:20:21Z
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@meeee Matrix has working Push Notifications while Push is only a MSC in XMPP and not all server support it ootb. Most public servers don't even care. That makes it for me unusable on iOS and forces polling on Android (which is also a bad idea). There is no cross signing for Omemo which makes it very unsecure to use and messages can get lost while in Matrix the timeline is synced over federation and things like the MAM XEP is always there by default. I could continue which much more points...
(DIR) Post #AJdijmfh06z7qAiTAW by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T09:47:43Z
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@krille Interesting, but you mean XMPP is not the future because it doesn't have these kind of stuff? As long as I know, XEPs could take care of that. The thing is XMPP development is kind of frozen, it seems, at least
(DIR) Post #AJdj81oWLy6RknPF68 by krille@metalhead.club
2022-05-20T09:52:00Z
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@meeee It has it in theory but... it just doesn't use it. Check out some official XMPP servers and count how many are supporting the Push MSC. I've once made a poll here for XMPP server admins who has enabled it and most of them have answered: "I don't know what this is".Not only the protocol is frozen in the past. Users, server admins and client developers are...
(DIR) Post #AJdkVkINEpT6KEF7Oi by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T10:07:35Z
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@krille And this omemo insecurity you say, any articles on the subject?
(DIR) Post #AJdlUJsi3igm4J7erI by krille@metalhead.club
2022-05-20T10:18:28Z
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@meeee I don't know articles about the topic. Maybe I write one at some day :D
(DIR) Post #AJe0XgWFqaTSSYgLaa by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T13:07:12Z
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@j_r @krille didn't know. that's really good. still, how do you make a critic and don't have a source?
(DIR) Post #AJe0oebGEhYhQj7CRk by krille@metalhead.club
2022-05-20T13:10:06Z
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@meeee @j_r A source that XMPP doesn't support Cross Signing? Just take a look in the apps 🤔
(DIR) Post #AJeUbkxwFpTk28UM9g by NatCor@mastodon.social
2022-05-20T16:53:48Z
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@Muto @meeee @deepbluev7 Me thinks, its a marketing play.xmpp community pushes xmpp protocol . matrix community pushes clients. xmpp community needs to push clients, clients, clients. compare xmpp and matrix websites, which is easy to understand to onboard users? lets say xmpp protocol is better tech than matrix protocol, so what, now what? what are the xmpp clients to onboard new users? Do you see the fediverse community pushing the activitypub protocol? nope. the fediverse (part 1 of 3)
(DIR) Post #AJeUblPab1b3PtQRFo by NatCor@mastodon.social
2022-05-20T16:54:53Z
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@Muto @meeee @deepbluev7 (part 3 of 3)saying xmpp is great means nothing to me. saying xmpp is great with some clients listed to onboard users is more a meaningfull remark.
(DIR) Post #AJeUbliNTAcqMADRXU by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T18:44:06Z
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@NatCor @Muto @deepbluev7 interesting your vision. but we generally list clients. but they're not really good (IN GENERAL. there are good clients, but generally they're not user friendly)
(DIR) Post #AJeUbpBYZ8kT7WtHw8 by NatCor@mastodon.social
2022-05-20T16:57:07Z
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@Muto @meeee @deepbluev7 (part 2 of 3)fediverse community pushing the activitypub protocol? nope. the fediverse community pushed the interconnected clients such as mastodon, misskey, pixelfed, peertube, etc. I don't hear fediverse community shouting activitypub is great as their main message to onboard users. fediverse community pushes clients, clients, clients. me thinks, if xmpp community want to achieve critical mass, it needs to push clients clients clients as well. saying xmpp is great
(DIR) Post #AJep7WrYDrewdxvdK4 by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-20T22:33:55Z
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@j_r @krille yeah. I confused topics. I thought it was an information not publically available, but it is. Sorry for the misunderstanding
(DIR) Post #AJiJx2bjXGvtxytAC8 by sealfox@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-22T15:03:32Z
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@meeee Which xmpp servers would you recommend using?
(DIR) Post #AJiKB69BAmDezwEfke by sealfox@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-22T15:06:05Z
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@meeee Which xmpp servers would you recommend using? I personally am a fan of XMPP. I don't use matrix because of various reasons.
(DIR) Post #AJiPy63mmhDegkteWu by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-22T16:10:56Z
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@sealfox if you want to host one, I recommend https://kill-9.xyz/guides/xmpp_serverfor a review of many, I recommend https://kill-9.xyz/no_category/xmpp
(DIR) Post #AJiSqhB5CJRHLwTKim by sealfox@social.linux.pizza
2022-05-22T16:43:14Z
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@meeee Thank you
(DIR) Post #AM6Eg7iEmrAoIV1HdY by Longplay_Games@mastodon.social
2022-08-01T23:41:42Z
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@meeee I used to use XMPP quite heavily, but like IRC or RSS it's a perfectly good tech that fell away as better and more popular clients came along.I think SIP/OCS mostly killed XMPP in the corporate world, and the apps that could do both (like Pidgin, Empathy, Adium) mostly just adapted to whatever was around.People ended up migrating off those when "web app as a desktop app" became popular, and XMPP just doesn't have that market at all.
(DIR) Post #AM6UMkiHfjCKjNpJMe by cobra@fedi.vern.cc
2022-08-02T02:37:29Z
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@meeee 1. nobody talks to me on it :(2. mucs are centralized to the server, unlike in matrix, rooms are distributed among servers with clients in them3. nobody wants to talk to me on it :(
(DIR) Post #AM6UW2zZ57Go1mLFGi by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-08-02T02:39:12.107828Z
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@meeee >more widely usedwell a lot of people on fedi are on XMPP and it's really fun talking to them. never talked to a fedi user on matrix
(DIR) Post #AM6XeGoFtLMx3rfFUO by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-02T03:14:17Z
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@cobra many people here on fediverse use it :). mine is on my profile
(DIR) Post #AMBT4FfVEG2l4RwJhg by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-08-04T12:16:29Z
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@deepbluev7@meeee> In XMPP a multi user chat goes down, if the hosting server goes downAh yes! A most cogent argument. 😁People buy all kinds of cloud connected shit that is guaranteed to go brick when in two years time the manufacturer goes under or simply decides to stop supporting the product and shuts down the server. But a chat room, well *that* is extremely important that it has redundancy or I'm not joining! 🙄
(DIR) Post #AMBmtPIn4LKsqZQFcm by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-08-04T12:23:30Z
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@deepbluev7 @meeeeReally, I find it embarrassing when people try to rationalise their “well I just bought into the marketing” decisions via the sellers' own talking points. 🙄
(DIR) Post #AMBmtPifW82I8pWuxc by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-08-04T12:26:10Z
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@deepbluev7 @meeeeAnd btw, it's perfectly possible to provide redundancy in #XMPP not just to chatrooms, but also the accounts that participate in them via a multi-node installation, such as #ejabberd supports.That hardly anybody bothers is not a reflection of the relatively straightforward process to set that up, but of the lack of actual demand for that kind of thing.
(DIR) Post #AMBmtQ7q0YAXOtJ1Bw by meeee@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-04T15:58:39Z
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@101101000 @deepbluev7 didn't know about it. thanks for the info