Post AJILSP5l2PZgWOUcr2 by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
(DIR) Post #AJHeaDyxvlhqLynaoy by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:17:26.177494Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
>In Luke 23:34, Papyrus 75 has omitted the words: "And Jesus said: Father forgive them, they know not what they do." This omission is supported by the manuscripts Sinaiticus (א)2a, Vaticanus (B), Bezae (D)*, Washingtonianus (W), Koridethi (Θ), Uncial 070, 579, 1241, ita, d, sys, sa, bob.Christians pretend like they care but they still include shit like this in modern bibbles. Not even the NASB or ESV mention that this is later insertion some time after 400 AD.
(DIR) Post #AJHenQek7ZAJQQdVVQ by why@shitposter.club
2022-05-09T18:19:54.285196Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 its a lore-friendly mod ok
(DIR) Post #AJHfCfabjikkynjnpw by josh@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:24:28.278948Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The weakest thing about Christianity is the composition of the Bible. The Old Testament is entirely Hebrew, the Qu'ran is entirely Arabic and written in the lifetime of Muhammad. Both Muslims and Jews have a language constructed around their faith. Christianity is like 4 different languages hundreds of years apart.
(DIR) Post #AJHfR5ifNmOm4gNrW4 by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:27:02.792021Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
actually I checked my ESV Study Bible, it has a footnote that "some manuscripts omit". It really underplays it though, effectively all the oldest manuscripts lack the verse.
(DIR) Post #AJHfc79uN513ixNlIm by exodus34@leafposter.club
2022-05-09T18:25:38.617832Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 Would you like to guess which demographic overwhelmingly dominates the field of Biblical text criticism (highly gatekept field.)
(DIR) Post #AJHfcM4muOphzQ6Nu4 by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:29:01.509313Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@exodus34 the Catholic church was insanely secretive about the Vaticanus until super recently.
(DIR) Post #AJHfsNIc84uqPrCwoi by grey@poa.st
2022-05-09T18:32:00.636975Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 thetextofthegospels.com/2017/04/luke-2334a-answering-apologists-part-1.htmlthetextofthegospels.com/2017/04/luke-2334a-answering-apologists-part-2.htmlthis has been gone over to death. it's much more likely that it was omitted from some branches than it was made up and inserted. especially given the number of versions that have it vs those that don't.
(DIR) Post #AJHg01fiQJ2Nelf5dI by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:33:20.956645Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@josh to be fair the Old Testament sources for Jews are effectively the same for Christians. Masoretic texts and the Septuagint. The only difference is Jews often learn Hebrew to read the original Masoretic text instead of a translation. The Greek Septuagint is actually older.
(DIR) Post #AJHg885GT1knrNTa9Q by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T18:34:51.750351Z
7 likes, 1 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 Actually friend not every book of the Old Testament was originally written in the Hebrew. For instance 2 Maccabees was originally written in the Greek. For the New Testament, the book of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew but I believe all the others were first written in the Greek. So it is very similar to the Old Testament in that most books were of one language but there is one of another language. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHgAKC2Pryrzlguae by Sevenatenine@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:35:03.287905Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh the recent book "History of the Bible" is really good. Worth reading.
(DIR) Post #AJHgIo3jG7sGwJqhfM by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:36:44.432095Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sevenatenine @josh how does it compare to "Who Wrote the Bible?". Different subject matter? I haven't read that one either, but I'm getting more interested in textual analysis.
(DIR) Post #AJHiO4ddFIN7iOHXFY by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:00:09.340371Z
13 likes, 2 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 Why would multiple independent sources from thousands of years apart, written in various languages, all saying the same thing make a case *weaker?*
(DIR) Post #AJHiS2vtWp9JaGiarw by Sevenatenine@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T18:38:43.241044Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh is a nice and accessible newer book, and talks about current and past translation methods. Given how much AI is being done with linguistics rights now, it's a nice continuation of previous works. The Bible is the main lexicon for SEVERAL major AI translation projects right now.
(DIR) Post #AJHibTogwbz5ZKqbMO by hydramacready@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:02:34.795041Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh @crunklord420 Jews
(DIR) Post #AJHieF4uCLYij8kSsC by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:03:03.761424Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh they don't all say the same thing, there's textual variants everywhere.Nevermind trying to figure out the modern translations (which isn't technically a textual variant). Instances like this it would be useful to be able to read Greek and Hebrew.
(DIR) Post #AJHiePkOWwgjoiEjvk by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:03:06.522062Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The fact that you're aware of the discrepancy proves how much Christians care about accurate textual transmission
(DIR) Post #AJHikUwU81MlfNnDcG by MoralPanic@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:04:12.647059Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh @crunklord420 The thin veneer of caring about whites fades away when their egos come into play>I have the hot take, it's your fault white man that jews rule over you
(DIR) Post #AJHiodglYEUtx3PnIO by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:04:56.449020Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast yet it persists, at best you get a footnote. Imagine all the stuff we don't know. I get the impression that the original Old Testament was much more polytheist and over time became more monotheist. If Bibbles were serious they'd start specially coloring textual variants, especially when it's pretty clear that it was added later.
(DIR) Post #AJHishPndeeyfPPnpw by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:05:41.359777Z
7 likes, 1 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh This is Bart Ehrman's bit. He'll hype the crap out of the number of textual variants, but only when pressed will he admit that less than 5% aren't just misspellings, and none of the authentic texts change doctrine. Your image is a great example. What doctrine is changed among those variants? Nothing. Pilate says Jesus is innocent of wrongdoing.
(DIR) Post #AJHiwHAZA4NoQRzlui by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:06:20.137845Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 In a way, Whites did let this happen. Not that that absolves jews
(DIR) Post #AJHjBjxGQ6Z02u9Bp2 by UnityOstara@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:09:07.402533Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Can't blame the victim. A rabbit frolicking in grass is not in the wrong when it gets attacked by a dog.
(DIR) Post #AJHjGVVVZ0EugXRCee by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:09:59.416050Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@crunklord420 Actually friend we know from sources even earlier than those that the verse was originally in Luke's gospel. You can find many of the church fathers who wrote about the verse all before the 300s. And most early copies that we find do include the verse. The most likely explanation is that one or a few copiers omitted the verse because they thought that Jesus was being too kind to the Jews. But luckily we have most of the bibles to compare to so just because one or a few copiers make a change it does not enter into all bibles. Here is an interesting article that you may enjoy. Thank you friend.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/04/luke-2334a-answering-apologists-part-1.html
(DIR) Post #AJHjI9d9s4xvPnnkjw by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:10:17.364890Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 Here is the second part of the article. Thank you friend.thetextofthegospels.com/2017/04/luke-2334a-answering-apologists-part-2.html
(DIR) Post #AJHjIEKYOg3RzY8Sw4 by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:10:13.956262Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh to me, all three of those translations (not textual variants) have a pretty different meaning. Case, Guilt, Fault. These all mean different things if you're really trying to understand what he's actually saying.If textual variants are so minor and small, what's wrong with bringing more attention to them? Especially such popular verses like Luke 23:34. It's a pretty big deal, it's not like some throw away verse no one cares about.
(DIR) Post #AJHjKNSHRWGGs1m0wa by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:10:41.474520Z
7 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 It "persists" because there's legitimate disagreement among Bible scholars. The earliest textual tradition affirms Yahwehism and casts Moloch, Baal, Ashera-worship as an aberration. Henotheism would be a better term to describe it. None of these controversies are hidden, except for paywalled research papers sometimes. You're obviously interested, so you looked it up, as can anyone else.
(DIR) Post #AJHjagJj598a0GXxTM by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:13:37.071364Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast clearly I found it, but I bet if you asked your average Sunday church goer they know nothing about these textual variants, I bet priests never mention it. Maybe they understand how dumb your average person is and just don't bother. If people really cared, that verse should not be read in a Church without a verbal footnote attached. Something I bet most priests are afraid to do among the nigger cattle, I mean, flock.
(DIR) Post #AJHjmPhGhYwJvo9WbI by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:15:45.526566Z
7 likes, 1 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh I, and the vast majority of scholars, disagree. The context is accusing Jesus of a crime, and Pilate says the Jews got nothin', which is affirmed by the context of the passage.I don't have any issues with people bringing them up, but it's not an earth-shattering revelation, and Christian doctrine doesn't change with Luke 23:34's removal.
(DIR) Post #AJHjzUNoacGEEKHwNE by MoralPanic@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:18:07.504734Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh @crunklord420 Sure, but that's not my point. These anti-christian spergs come to us attacking our ancestral religion and denigrating us for not abandoning the religion of our fathers. How is that a realistic solution to anything going on now? How much energy is wasted rebuffing these attacks? It's be like me showing up to detroit and yelling at a church "if it wasn't for you christcucks this city would be white!", it's absurd.
(DIR) Post #AJHk5NujYQT9u7UsrI by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:19:10.518454Z
7 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The average church-goer doesn't know anything about anything that isn't relevant to their daily life. The average pastor isn't a textual critic either, and their chief concerns are making sure marriages in their congregation aren't dissolving or that the Jones's kid didn't pick up the heroin needle again.
(DIR) Post #AJHk6hy6Tht6OJhjUm by Sunliver@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:16:05.461456Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh Aren’t the differences in translations down to mostly personal style, as the original texts are stilted and dry if translated literally?
(DIR) Post #AJHkBthEIliWDEHnto by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:20:21.151527Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sunliver @Godcast @josh NASB and ESV are supposed to be pretty literal and accurate translations.
(DIR) Post #AJHkEtT9bOyYNR8Bma by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:20:54.356345Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 It is silly. You really only need to look at the results of Christianity dying. It's not a hyper-rational utopia with flying cars. It's Chris-chan.
(DIR) Post #AJHkINNGs8c5zk2XbM by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:21:32.125236Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Sunliver @josh ESV is considered pretty woodenly literal
(DIR) Post #AJHkOEX4ev8wJGPzmK by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:22:35.130111Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Godcast @josh >it doesn't matter if you remove itokay well then it shouldn't be a big deal to note that it's a textual variant in an explicit way. Muh word of God. Then you hand wave it away "WELL IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER!!!". Okay it doesn't really matter, maybe just dumb it down to a kids story time instead of treating it like a legitimate historical document.How the fuck do you expect serious people to take this seriously when you say this type of stuff? Maybe you don't care, maybe the Church doesn't care. They just wanna keep their nigger cattle flocks pacified and keep the questions to a minimum. Who cares about textual variants anyways? Jesus loves and and died for you and that's all that matters.
(DIR) Post #AJHkRkGH9DEnaIEerQ by issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com
2022-05-09T19:23:13.208482Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Every translation is an interpretation. These are three attempts to translate aition into contemporary English.https://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/passage/?q=Lk+23%3A4&t=nas
(DIR) Post #AJHkUkH5YUPEUg2vx2 by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:23:46.206656Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh Yes friend I would recommend you use an approved Catholic translation such as the Douay Rheims or the Knox bible. Anyone can translate the bible however they wish which is why we should look to the translations which the Church has mentioned are not filled with the errors. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHkVwVVYnuSipMUhU by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:23:58.678256Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast religion is just religion it doesn't matter it's just about this socio-community bullshit. Doesn't matter if you're Sikh, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, it's just like, Religion man, the actual specifics don't matter.
(DIR) Post #AJHkkomOZdFp6CM01o by issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com
2022-05-09T19:26:40.064519Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Wait until you learn about the story of Mary Magdalene.
(DIR) Post #AJHkynCZEkkeG9G83M by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:29:12.085451Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The particulars very much do matter, but I don't think I'm going to convince you of that in a 20 minute conversation
(DIR) Post #AJHl0kiJST2b7e2gpk by UnityOstara@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:29:33.513472Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Chris-Chan's recent claim to be Christ shows how desperate someone people need media to believe in something. Had Chris-Chan been put into a good Church instead of mass-media culture, he could have been functional.
(DIR) Post #AJHlN3DHMGyGrt9vyC by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:33:34.291558Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast that's not my opinion, but that's basically what you're saying with this whole "the priest isn't there to discuss, you know, the bible. He's there to be a community counselor".
(DIR) Post #AJHlRlQ8wClL8LQKYq by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:34:25.966832Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh You really can't carry your own plainly ignorant view of what biblical inerrancy is into a conversation, insist Christians adopt your view, then get upset when we don't. Textual variants like this don't undermine the historicity of the Bible, either.I agree, the most important part is that Jesus loves us and died for our sins. What I expect from "serious people," who aren't really serious in my experience, is to engage with the thousands of years of scholarship
(DIR) Post #AJHla8gkJRQLc8BPzk by gucciloafers@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:34:03.858627Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@UnityOstara @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 I don't think he would have been functional given how bad things are in general in Society™ but at least he wouldn't have continued making Sonic the Hedgehog fanfiction and wouldn't have become a weird tranny who raped his geriatric mother if he didn't have all of the people around him gassing him up for the laughs.The people really into the whole kiwifarms lolcow scene are pretty fucked in the head.
(DIR) Post #AJHld8VVRWx1v8M4Ia by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:36:29.484028Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The point I'm making is that the finer points of textual criticism are outside the purview of an average pastor. There are plenty of resources said pastor could direct anyone who's curious to. Do you expect everyone to know everything about any given topic?
(DIR) Post #AJHlkZLW3TsVBeE6EL by UnityOstara@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:37:50.289749Z
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@gucciloafers @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Alot of people fucked with his head. The Internet Lumberjack didn't do what was was right as a Father.
(DIR) Post #AJHllTRpTCCbBRbvqS by Robert_Edwardly@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:38:00.131306Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @crunklord420 the finer points of textual criticism beyond a lay level book explaining the general outlines are completely irrelevant to spiritual well being anyway.
(DIR) Post #AJHlwTDYfM1FegBAHo by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:39:56.296812Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh I have no goal with pointing out textual variants other than treating it the bible as a historical document. Others have speculate the reason it was added was to reduce antisemitism and/or appeal to the Roman government. Christians should care the most, because word of god. Corruption of the text should be one of the biggest concerns when you have no real original documents. Instead you get hand waving and ignorance from most Christians, how embarrassing, how shameful. It comes across as sunk cost fallacy. Textual criticism should be venerated, not obscured and ignored. This has been going on forever. Everyone hiding and forbidding access to manuscripts (ie. The Catholic Church).
(DIR) Post #AJHmKhmw90mTnMHcxc by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:44:21.870678Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh Yes friend if you read history about anyone, even modern persons, you will find many disputed facts and myths included. The fact that the bible only has a handful of disputed events is very good even by modern standards. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHmPeZPXLNLGJJf04 by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:45:14.736398Z
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@bebe @josh @Godcast I'm not going to argue against all history being fake and gay. Even reporting and writing on stuff happening _right now_ is fake and gay.
(DIR) Post #AJHmtTU1K2htZ20xns by SuperLutheran@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:50:39.017131Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @crunklord420 I've gotten into textual criticism stuff plenty running Bible studies on Sundays.But that really doesn't end up being the bulk of anything because it's, you know, about the history of the Bible and not the Bible itself. Since everyone there already assumes the infallibility of the Word, they don't want to get into manuscript variant autism - that's my job, not theirs.
(DIR) Post #AJHn2LvgmBdik7BpI0 by PunishedD@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T19:52:15.035661Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh Textual analysis is a common thing, or at least it is in the churches I've attended. The pastors almost always dip into the original Hebrew to explain words and translations. The hardcore verification debates have been going on for 2000 years, and continue to this day, but it's a bit much to expect normal Christians to keep up with it. It's like saying everyone should pay attention to theoretical physics, an important field that is mostly carried on in obscure university rooms and conferences. Every few decades physics shits itself over a new discovery that tweaks an equation non-physicists have never heard of. But the fundamentals we care about don't really change. At some point you have to decide to TRUST THE SCIENCE and get on with your life, instead of waiting for string theory to unfuck itself first.
(DIR) Post #AJHnFfc4u6kPYUMpOq by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:54:39.261084Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh You are, again, imposing a view of biblical inerrancy (word of God) on Christians that the majority of Christians do not and have not held. Textual corruption *is* a big concern and has been addressed repeatedly for thousands of years. You're not getting "handwaving," you're getting a reality check: Luke 23:34 being in the Bible or not doesn't change doctrine and it doesn't change the fact that Jesus died on the cross. I think what you want to happen is for Christians to see a textual variant and abandon their faith, rather than doing the rational thing and ask how important the variant actually is.
(DIR) Post #AJHnHi5seTSBpPHPLU by MyLittleFashy@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:50:47.739488Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @crunklord420 @josh It's the most tiresome part of arguing about Christianity, most fedoras (and pagangang) I have encountered have a very strict definition of both textual inerrancy and theology and will insist that any Christian shares it.I wonder if that definition is just a strawman, or if there is a denomination somewhere that actually is that strawman incarnate and all angry ex-Christians come from that denomination.
(DIR) Post #AJHnJb3RnK1iZk2cIS by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:37:58.243272Z
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@Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Except we didn't pass Rome until christianity stated dying in the 1600's nor did we have a concept of race or racial differences until it started dying. Oh and before you say it, christainity started it's decline after the 30 year war, and you are silly if you think it was ever more powerful after than before. Also christainity was never a bulwark against anything to do with Chris-chan hell isn't he christian?
(DIR) Post #AJHnJbScHk9xpnoiWm by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:55:21.855225Z
7 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 The things brought about by the decline in Christianity are the French revolution, industrial revolution, sexual revolution, and today. Nothing good. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHnWhwpTcnrieCJM0 by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:57:44.445115Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
@MyLittleFashy @crunklord420 @josh I think a lot of it is that most fedoralords form their concept of Christianity in middle school arguing with the church kid who mis-relays things, and never really bother to recalibrate their view of Christianity as relayed by adults
(DIR) Post #AJHoELm5HI49gvywIC by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:05:37.808463Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@SuperLutheran @Godcast @crunklord420 Grug just want to crush God's enemies.Grug, want to destroy longnose tribe.Grug leaves big think to big thinkers.
(DIR) Post #AJHoIQNi5jth8bWXvU by sickburnbro@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:06:21.865009Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @MyLittleFashy @crunklord420 @josh I think related is people who are all "gravity doesn't exist" - and it turns out they think all the many interesting experiments done to test it are invalid because everything has to be directly measured to exist.
(DIR) Post #AJHoKFPjq3f7hcLGHA by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T19:56:19.128633Z
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@bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Before that was just White infighting for 1400 years so can't say anything post christainity has been great.
(DIR) Post #AJHoKG6dGZyPqePW8O by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:06:41.259077Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Friend that is the history of Europe since its inception. At the very least under the Christian era we developed rules of war which made life much more peaceful for your average person. Christian lords and kings fighting one another tended to avoid targeting the average civilians whereas the attacks by pagans such as the vikings tended to simply kill and rape many of the civilians on purpose. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHpDdDl1kV9St9BMO by MyLittleFashy@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:14:24.894261Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @crunklord420 @josh Full disclaimer, I was a fedora tipper, but I never got that hardon for "using the bible to own Christians", it always felt dishonest. In my experience it always came from people who were raised in the faith (I'm excluding "professional" atheists who make money from selling books to fedora tippers here, It's more about the internet sperg patrol) and still managed to get it all wrong.Which is why I always wonder if the strawman is not based on some minority, not necessarily denominational per-se, but a "way" of teaching that is counter productive.I didn't directly accuse the catechism church ladies because most of them are great women, but I do have my suspicions in where this minority could be active 😉
(DIR) Post #AJHpQ539Nyj3FY7c0W by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:09:57.456390Z
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@bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Average people not being involved in war makes war more likely and is less eugenic. Look at libtards foaming at the mouth for war because they know it won't involve them.
(DIR) Post #AJHpQ5QtxfiyRDEa1o by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:18:56.855740Z
6 likes, 3 repeats
@philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Friend we are less than 100 years out from the biggest war which purposely targeted civilians in history. The millions of German civilians killed by the allies does not seem to have made them into a better people at all, nor has it done any good for the US or Britain or others. After many centuries of avoiding this practice you would expect us to be the best we have ever been, but we are by far the worst. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHpwXA8Ono7hqrbEG by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:24:49.181882Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe @philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 The rules of War in upheld thousands of years of Christian European tradition and honor.Then Britain, the U.S and the Soviet Union did the Jewish thing and started bombing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Say no to the way Jews wage war, its satanic.
(DIR) Post #AJHq5wQFqu6ueftCnQ by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T20:26:29.962649Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MyLittleFashy @josh @Godcast >can't say anything critical about the church without being Jewish, I mean Athiest.I GUESS LUTHER WAS THE BIGGEST FEDORA TIPPER OF THEM ALL
(DIR) Post #AJHq79VqfW9HXk5EQa by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:26:43.770021Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Angry_Norman @philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Yes thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHqIhUWg2We6yyHlw by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:25:47.733225Z
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@bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 >After many centuries of avoiding this practice you would expect us to be the best we have ever been, but we are by far the worstAre you arguing against your own point? Because I agree, wars have only gotten worse since civilians weren't involved at all. Key point in that is killed whereas Pagans took war brides. Also we are worse off because one race human race christian nationalists beat the Fascists.
(DIR) Post #AJHqIhtLBmNJLwa6S0 by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:28:48.912745Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 I specifically pointed out how we had a war that did what you think we should do, which is indiscriminately kill civilians, and did so in massive numbers. By your logic this should have had a good eugenic effect on our populations, but if anything it has done the opposite. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHqIibIYLXLYH9Cy0 by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:26:59.219018Z
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@Angry_Norman @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 What are you talking about? Whites have only lost land since christaintiy, it didn't uphold anything. Even when it had massive technological advancements over the middle east during the Byzantine it couldn't do anything but lose ground.
(DIR) Post #AJHqIisJX59EP36nUO by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:28:49.194016Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420
(DIR) Post #AJHqwVwt0leZtdDmca by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:31:03.943020Z
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@Angry_Norman @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Since you like sins like murder you might as well kys.
(DIR) Post #AJHqwWGjoxX6tCVdZ2 by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:36:01.026193Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Grug kills Grug tribe's enemies.Killing enemies who try to kill Grug is not sinful.
(DIR) Post #AJHr6U40sIYiwhJCWu by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:37:06.188340Z
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@Angry_Norman @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 You're White I don't want to kill you at all, I hope you find your dream girl and have 7 kids.
(DIR) Post #AJHr6UVfDUg2KSFHd2 by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:37:49.096563Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Only seven?I plan on having 20.
(DIR) Post #AJHrD2iSx09i9jMEwy by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:37:56.278415Z
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@Angry_Norman @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 I just disagree that gurgs religion does any good for the White race and actually harms it dialectically.
(DIR) Post #AJHrD3BBEF7lamnAhs by Angry_Norman@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:39:00.211319Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Grug disagrees. Grug blames Darby and Scofield.
(DIR) Post #AJHrMEkzYKrO6cvJ1U by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:32:56.878009Z
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@bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Show me where the best soldiers from the Soviet and US forces got German warbrides rather than just killing civilians? That is where the eugenics comes from.On the flip side civilians being involved in WW2 is why we haven't had any major wars since.
(DIR) Post #AJHrMFBvwAPXSBWp16 by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:40:39.818908Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@philmchawk @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Friend it is actually well known that there were the mass rapes against Germans and Italians during and after the war. They did not become married but it does not seem that the superior genetics of these soldiers' children has improved the people in these places. You are correct that we have not had any major wars likely because of WW2. But we also have not had any just wars, which mean evil has been left free to run amok. Soon the pot will boil over though and the evil people will not want to give up power, so this will just be a much worse war than what would have been needed. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJHrRn41QaTtxGTMRc by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:41:37.979497Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 THE OLD TESTAMENT IS ENTIRELY IN KOINE GREEKTHE NEW TESTAMENT IS ALSO ENTIRELY IN KOINE GREEK
(DIR) Post #AJHreKBg6LHkA11wki by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:43:55.967458Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 AND BOTH WERE WRITTEN ENTIRELY WITHIN JESUS' LIFETIME ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
(DIR) Post #AJHrfhNJNM62Mi7wBc by philmchawk@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:41:05.455355Z
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@Angry_Norman @bebe @Godcast @MoralPanic @josh @crunklord420 Unfortunately jews weren't being put to sword and only moved around 109 times and the 30 year war happened before those. But hey you ever make christianity to as based as poast pretends ill convert and join your church.
(DIR) Post #AJHrfhk010FDV4k3Y8 by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T20:44:10.179472Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@philmchawk @josh @Angry_Norman @Godcast @MoralPanic @bebe >Thread about verse forgiving the Jews was added after the fact for political reasons>OHNONONONONONO YOU CAN'T JUST SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL WITH THIS VERSE>God I wish all the Jews were killed:what:
(DIR) Post #AJHrnSxQrZn7y1j4lc by UnityOstara@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:45:35.545722Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@nugger @josh @crunklord420 I don't need to speak ancient religions to know that Christ is King!
(DIR) Post #AJHrtR3aqIZDoHSDjs by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T20:46:39.702370Z
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@nugger @josh Jesus wrote both the old and new testament in English after moving to America.
(DIR) Post #AJHrzNcOXZ42smZD4i by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:47:44.038267Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh IF THE KING'S JAMESES WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR PAUL ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME BROTHER HH
(DIR) Post #AJHs9u4cj93GR8mxay by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:49:27.735952Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh BUT IN ALL SERIOUSNESSTO MANUSCRIPT DISCREPANCIESNIGGA COME ON WEVE HAD TWO THOUSAND YEARS OF THE BRIGHTEST MINDS ON THE PLANET WRITING ABOUT ITTHAT YOU DONT KNOW WHATS UP IS YOUR PROBLEMTL DR THE RIGHT VERSION IS THE ONE THE CHURCH IS USINGBECAUSE THE CHURCH IS INDWELT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT SAME AS THE AUTHORS OF EVERY CANONICAL BOOKITS THE SAME GUY WRITING AND EDITING BROTHER HH
(DIR) Post #AJHsEJLOiJgHyDji8u by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T20:50:22.749894Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh WE ALL KNOW THAT EPIOUSIOUS ISNT "DAILY" BREAD
(DIR) Post #AJHt9DHpuL6lgpCgOu by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T21:00:43.033899Z
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@issdeinschnitzel @josh @Godcast based ESV not even using a footnote, just straight up inserting it into the main text.
(DIR) Post #AJHtSNTyDyheoU19FY by issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com
2022-05-09T21:04:10.770636Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Yeah, I was referring to John 8,1-11. :D
(DIR) Post #AJHtfj1vQEFjPHGRUW by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T21:06:34.824095Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@issdeinschnitzel @josh @Godcast based ESV again
(DIR) Post #AJHuGX0P5kxapO6RwO by cloutmonei@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T21:13:14.641426Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @issdeinschnitzel @Godcast @josh > They put the paragraph between [[brackets]]:thunkful:
(DIR) Post #AJHugRh9SVPZt2SGXY by issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com
2022-05-09T21:17:55.328740Z
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The Christian view of the Bible is more complicated than the Islamic view of the Quran. It's more important what was in the Bible when it became canon than what the original text was.
(DIR) Post #AJHvP8e784Sfq3LT16 by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T21:26:00.391103Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@issdeinschnitzel @crunklord420 @josh Muslims had a council shortly after Mohammed's death to pick through the various Islamic textual traditions and decide which one they liked best, then burned the rest.
(DIR) Post #AJHvSL37TE6zAwZETw by josh@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T21:26:34.752366Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @nugger That's the Book of Mormon.
(DIR) Post #AJHvdxUIthfTZkp6oa by issdeinschnitzel@gleasonator.com
2022-05-09T21:28:40.854772Z
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That's right, but they still believe there is a eternal Quran written in arabic existing before the beginning of time.
(DIR) Post #AJHw5L8j4HKUkXmqvI by nugger@poa.st
2022-05-09T21:33:38.201529Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 THATS ACTUALLY JOJOS BIZARRE ADVENTURE PART SEVEN STEEL BALL RUN BUT GO ON BELIEVING YOUR FAIRYTALES
(DIR) Post #AJHxZOGA8HHH4G9sLQ by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-09T21:50:16.111197Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@issdeinschnitzel @crunklord420 @josh They also believe all running water is clean.
(DIR) Post #AJI3oBVaQHhpaaoJHc by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
2022-05-09T23:00:10.498193Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh The ESV does an ok job at flagging textual variants, but notes only the major ones. Its purpose was to a readable translation that was as close to word for word as reasonable. On some level every translation team will have to engage in some level of professional judgement as to which variants to flag. The ending of mark is significant theologically, has many many more manuscripts pointing to it's omissions, and is better understood.The passage in Luke however is not so clear cut. We have many early manuscripts that support its conclusion, it's the version that irenaeus uses, and it's less theologically contentious. You might disagree with the line that the translators are being disingenuous is extremely misleading.This is really only a problem for you if you take an extremely 2D and immature approach to scripture, or you're just trying to engage in point scoring (both of which Ehrman, for example, is guilty of)
(DIR) Post #AJI4GsGB4FQmHyHcki by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
2022-05-09T23:05:22.023114Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast @josh Mr Crunk, I'm happy to engage in this kind of discussion in good faith. As a protestant I willing admit that the formation of the cannon (and the basis of Sola Scriptura) is the weakest part of out theology. But if you're just going to play what-about-ism and talk as if the Christian community refuses to engage in textual criticism I'm going to call you a bad faith fuckwit and ignore you
(DIR) Post #AJI7zPv9ZtrHI4NfUG by exodus34@leafposter.club
2022-05-09T22:50:55.672248Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 The Catholic Church was also hundreds of years behind academically until the 1960’s. They never really bothered to look into anything.
(DIR) Post #AJI8OVTe3aOzlLTfdY by crunklord420@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-09T23:51:33.101069Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Christ_is_Lord @josh @Godcast I'm legitimately not trying own the Christians, I've just been engaging in bible study from a more historical context. I still have to read that apologetics link someone sent me. From my perspective older texts trump newer texts, and you have to point to the earliest verified manuscript to set the date.Anyways I'm kinda done with this discussion I need to read more Bible.
(DIR) Post #AJI9KE7kjWTAjrlDu4 by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-10T00:01:59.734888Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Christ_is_Lord @josh I would strongly recommend Michael Heiser (nakedbible.com). He's a credentialed academic and is fantastic about providing lots of sources for what he's saying. Sometimes too good about citing sources if you don't like footnotes
(DIR) Post #AJI9QtzvxaCsLVHpC4 by Godcast@poa.st
2022-05-10T00:03:11.787998Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Christ_is_Lord @josh That website should be drmsh.com, sorry
(DIR) Post #AJI9kKMw8a0DdVJCCm by bebe@poa.st
2022-05-10T00:06:42.648871Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Christ_is_Lord @josh @Godcast Yes friend I would also recommend that you visit your local SSPX or other latin mass parish and see if you can attend the catechesis. They will be able to teach you much better than you will get simply by reading the bible on your own. Thank you friend.
(DIR) Post #AJIB2Zl3lAMAWzrD0a by Wisconsin_Kraut@poa.st
2022-05-10T00:21:12.951111Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Godcast @josh @crunklord420 Because I hate my dad
(DIR) Post #AJIBF5H6PHTlknoF3A by vril_oreilly@poa.st
2022-05-10T00:23:24.695851Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@josh @crunklord420 The book of Daniel is written partially in Aramaic :02_learn:
(DIR) Post #AJIIkawpOeYadsIaUy by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
2022-05-10T01:47:36.462203Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@crunklord420 @josh @Godcast Older > Newer is a fine perspective, but to be frank it's extremely ahistorical and novel. This approach has two major weakness 1) it's at the mercy of what material we have access to 2) it doesn't reflect what "the Bible" is.1)For a long time the oldest manuscripts of the OT that we had access to, aside from the textus receptus, was the Masoretic text. Then we found earlier texts, then we found earlier texts, and so on. We know now that the Masoretic text, which for a long time would have been "more authoritative" based on older>newer was actually edited by the Jews, so we must ALSO consider who the custodians of the text were, not just the age. In this case we must consider whether or not the church, heretics, or the Jews are trustworthy as they might have made their forgeries earlier than the surviving documents we have. This is especially pertinent when considering that Christians had their texts seized by the Romans during the Great Persecution, but the Jews, Pagans, and those in the borderlands did not. Obviously earlier is better, but we must engage in a more nuanced study of the available manuscripts, with the understanding that we are missing a lot of the early manuscripts 2)I have books on my shelf that were subject to revisions an updated. The newer editions have changes, updates, redaction, etc. However, these changes actually more fully represent the truth and the authors intent. The same is true of the bible. The story of the adulterous women was likely a later addition, but I do believe it more fully reflects the person of Jesus. The same can be said for the longer end of Mark. Luke 23:34 also fits this, and it's supported by the behaviour and understanding of the early Christians.We must never lose sight of what the scriptures claim to be. They are authoritative texts, that claim to represent the will of God. The cannon is a list of authoritative texts, not an authoritative list of text that represents the will of God. This is why I believe the deuterocannon and Clement should be in our Bibles even if they aren't technically scripture (from the apostles or prophets)This is a very wordy way of saying that if you confuse "finding the word of God" and "finding the autographs of the cannon" you're going to end up in some weird places. This is aside from the implied claims that the true meaning of scripture is inaccessible or up for grabs. Just be careful, and avoid arch-mistake of the modern American protestant in thinking that you can just approach the text devoid of context (historical, theological, AND ECCLESIASTICAL)
(DIR) Post #AJIKDrcGbRaYgrCZcG by loghdub@poa.st
2022-05-10T02:04:06.167609Z
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@Christ_is_Lord @crunklord420 @josh @Godcast > For a long time the oldest manuscripts of the OT that we had access to, aside from the textus receptus, was the Masoretic text. What?
(DIR) Post #AJILSP5l2PZgWOUcr2 by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
2022-05-10T02:17:55.619504Z
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@loghdub @crunklord420 @josh @Godcast Texts like Siniaticus were not accessible to the west. Instead, for example with the creation of the KJV, they had to depend on Masoretic text.
(DIR) Post #AJIbgXWY5C6pzgmq80 by exohuism@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-10T05:19:45.977505Z
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@crunklord420 even if we ignore the fact that this verse is in more than 99% of all extant new testament manuscripts (excluding those which are damaged or incomplete and therefore lack the surrounding verses as well), it’s a brute fact that lazy copyists dont insert things into the tests that they are copying, meaning you have to posit some theological reason why some 5th century scribe would insert a verse where Jesus asks the Father to forgive men who at that point had been dead for centuries; and not only that but every single scribe across the entire world also had the same idea, centuries after the Christian world had become so dispersed that even trying to get an accretional unity between Rome and Constantinople would be impossible, even if they had still been using the same language.
(DIR) Post #AJIcDfHKGyNpbHSgZE by exohuism@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-10T05:25:45.142315Z
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@crunklord420 @exodus34 this is just a plain lie. The Roman Septuagint is literally just the septuagint from vaticanus and was published in 1587. Erasmus of all people, not exactly the most orthodox scholar of his day, was able to get access to vaticanus for use in his “textus receptus”. The Clementine Vulgate (1592) was created by crossreferencing vaticanus and several changes from the older vulgate text are directly attributable to vaticanus.
(DIR) Post #AJIcQj6LN2t1DmYLuC by exohuism@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-10T05:28:06.890784Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@crunklord420 @Godcast “we should start specially coloring when theres a variant in less than 1% of manuscripts”
(DIR) Post #AJIgAAXmUDl5E6kNJQ by exohuism@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-10T06:09:56.659382Z
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@josh @crunklord420 Clement of Rome (disciple of Peter and Paul), Polycarp of Smyrna (disciple of John), and Irenaeus of Lyons (disciple of Polycarp) quote from all but Philemon and Jude, with likely references to Jude in Irenaeus. And if we allow ourselves to include Tertullian (mid-late 2nd century) he has extremely explicit references to both Jude and Philemon.As far as authorship of the koran goes, it seems to be a collation of earlier texts centuries later, and its not clear if it has a single author. you never hear about quranic difficulties because Islam isnt true.
(DIR) Post #AJJaBSbmP4aqyWoGmm by loghdub@poa.st
2022-05-10T16:37:39.616968Z
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@Christ_is_Lord @crunklord420 @josh @Godcast The west lost it completely? I thought the reformers just went with the Masoretic because of the mistake in mimicking contemporary jews to get back to the roots. I didn't realize they just... didn't have anything else.
(DIR) Post #AJJumw1W03DS0CzgX2 by Telvannichad@kiwifarms.cc
2022-05-10T20:28:31.897331Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@exodus34 @crunklord420 >Never bothered to look into anything Uh what is summa theologica,confessions,city of god and other catholic works?
(DIR) Post #AJJvwNlkJMpYc9gdzU by Christ_is_Lord@poa.st
2022-05-10T20:41:26.331737Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@loghdub @crunklord420 @josh @Godcast As far as I'm aware the best text available to the English speaking world as the KJV was being composed was Vacticanus, and Rome doesn't like to share. Instead they just used the receptus and other bits and pieces (e.g LXX). I can't imagine Martin Luther's library card working to well at the Vatican.If you could the Greeks or the Catholics as the West, then yeah we still had access to certain texts. But no one actually engaging in translation or critical scholarship did.
(DIR) Post #AJMO1WgtknCalWa2jI by toiletpaper@shitposter.club
2022-05-12T01:05:32.359178Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
don't forget aramaic
(DIR) Post #AJMOLSH5smyErQ0t6m by djsumdog@djsumdog.com
2022-05-12T01:09:07.117347Z
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@crunklord420 The Christian theological argument would be that the spirit controls the world of God; and even different translations would be controlled, and under the guidance of, the spirit. Christianity has a weird 4th part of the trinity: the word. The scripture takes on as epistemology of itself; a living document and another facet of God. This is something Christians don't want to address; but it is part of the meta-physical structure of their faith in many denominations @josh @Godcast
(DIR) Post #AJMOSicbVHYhaRXQ6y by doug@paypig.org
2022-05-12T01:10:26Z
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@Godcast @crunklord420 @josh because we’ve had thousands of years of forgers.
(DIR) Post #AJMbIYemzpSZBq2su8 by Leyonhjelm@social.lovingexpressions.net
2022-05-12T03:34:16.648850Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bebe Aramaic was an important language in those days as well@crunklord420 @josh