Post AIhmlvGZGPp5mDy8PY by aperezdc@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by aperezdc@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AIgGXme384ypIECrk8 by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-04-21T17:23:50.100082Z
16 likes, 21 repeats
We are developers and designers making user-friendly apps. We take pride in our craft and work hard to make sure our applications are a great experience for people.Unfortunately, there are increasing efforts on the current market to disallow or discourage customization. This worsens user experience for a lot of software.Kirigami colour sets allow developers to easily make their UI work with any colour schemes.Icon Themes allow users to have a unified view across different applications.Application styles allows users to decide how a button is represented, how wide a scroll bar should be, etc.All these not only give users the freedom to decide how the applications should behave, but also make room for accessibility considerations like larger buttons, more visible focus indication, and more contrastive colours and shades.This is why we believe application developers should be aware of the possibility to customize its appearance.If you are an application developer, we kindly ask that you do not hard-code any colour or size, but rather follow the system styles.On a platform level, we should implement a colour set editor that informs users about what colours might be put where, and advises about how contrastive the foreground and the background are in different places.If you are a user or distribution maintainer that ships our apps, and you are having issues with our apps on your customized colour set or application style, please do tell us, and we can figure out the cause of the problem.Signed,tusooa, maintainer of kazv.This document is inspired by https://stopthemingmy.app/ .
(DIR) Post #AIgH1QLUbOFAovezzs by Zerglingman@freespeechextremist.com
2022-04-21T17:29:12.863198Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa I knew what this was about from the start. That post's retardation can be smelled miles away.
(DIR) Post #AIgPj6wGut0h0SCpjk by alcinnz@floss.social
2022-04-21T18:56:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa I have to say: I think it's perfectly reasonable for devs to say e.g. "I only work with Adwaita, please only use me on GNOME3 desktop." I think it's reasonable for desktops to limit (whilst still address accessible needs) such options for the sake of those devs, for those apps.But that's not every dev, not every app. And I for one am having no trouble allowing for theming in my apps, and believe it's vital I allow for it.
(DIR) Post #AIgPj7cSO2kp7HwWUS by alcinnz@floss.social
2022-04-21T18:58:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa My recommendation: Each app should explicitly state it's stance, it's supported desktops, in it's readme. Not that all will.
(DIR) Post #AIgPj88MTQH6iEs0Dg by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-04-21T19:06:38.702080Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @tusooa And I guess that portion would have to be copied in the package long-description. (which to be honest, I never read)To me it feels horribly anti-FLOSS to not allow customisation, sure some distros probably went a bit to far and had broken themes, but a solution would have been things like a theme checker tool, not "Nope, now you get Windows/Apple-level of customisation".
(DIR) Post #AIgj3JCUw4cRxL8kmu by ozamidas@floss.social
2022-04-21T22:39:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa I agree that accessibility options should be improved, especially the ability to change the font size and color of each application.Having that said, excessive theming does introduce some bugs, and i can see how that creates problems. It depends on the used technology but it is a reality.
(DIR) Post #AIgj3JrcTBVq0sNasq by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-04-21T22:43:15.117234Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ozamidas It is usually due to programs hardcoding a colour instead of using a platform-provided one.
(DIR) Post #AIgkLbAUyErOqgURn6 by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-04-21T22:57:46.846127Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ozamidas Actually, there can be two source of problems when it comes to display bugs where the colours are poorly rendered. First, the theme may be using a colour set that does not provide enough contrast where it is due. This can be mitigated by more informative theme editors that inform users about the accessibility level of contrast (for example, the Pleroma-FE theme editor is doing well here, you can try it on https://kazv.moe , no registration or log-in needed). The other source is that program designers make bad assumptions about the colour scheme, or they are hardcoding colours. For example, assuming the background colour is a light colour is always a bad assumption, and so is assuming selection colour is always some shade of blue.
(DIR) Post #AIgrTEbrQV3gscsQNM by vurpo@mstdn.io
2022-04-22T00:15:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa wasn't that website only against OSes applying different themes to apps *by default*? Not about users theming their system
(DIR) Post #AIgrTFFD4CXAqfHqi0 by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-04-22T00:17:35.118766Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vurpo But they do mention that using a custom theme is "unsupported," while I would strive to support custom themes as a dev.
(DIR) Post #AIhmlvGZGPp5mDy8PY by aperezdc@mastodon.social
2022-04-22T04:36:51Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@vurpo @tusooa libadwaita makes it plainly hostile to the user to switch themes, to the point one needs a patched build to achieve something, see https://mastodon.social/@aperezdc/108089575787403422 — not cool.
(DIR) Post #AIhvTYMkZDKf7zAzXk by zachdecook@social.librem.one
2022-04-22T12:36:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa Can we make kirigami apps have semi-transparent backgrounds?
(DIR) Post #AIhvTYseeaqwiw6TGy by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-04-22T12:37:11.623763Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@zachdecook Not sure, but Plasmoids surely can!
(DIR) Post #AIigDjI0shPkDduvT6 by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-04-22T21:20:56.317965Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@aperezdc @vurpo @tusooa holy shit fuck gnome is evil!I recently attempted to rice my desktop into looking like MacOS Classic. Guess what apps looked like a sore thumbs? GTK! Qt picked up theming just fine.
(DIR) Post #AIigRTWgHnOHNrKfcO by numberonedonaldtrumpfan@freespeechextremist.com
2022-04-22T21:23:28.241001Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@newt @aperezdc @tusooa @vurpo gtk is more like a sore rectum
(DIR) Post #AIih0EtChGs07lRaPg by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-04-22T21:29:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @alcinnz @tusooa I think developers have every right to say "well, you broke it, now you fix it" to anyone who breaks an app through theming. But as a user, I have every right to break my software in any way I like, and the devs have no right to stop me.Also it'd be nice if devs made it easier to theme their apps, or have their apps "just work" with system-wide themes, to the extent it's practical. I think it's a good goal to strive for.
(DIR) Post #AIijjhBuWCJaq8zsAa by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2022-04-22T22:00:12.754102Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @alcinnz @tusooa GTK2 was probably the easiest to theme as a user, Qt is also often pretty good on that.GTK3 went quite worse there somehow, specially over time.Desktop Unix peaked in 2008~2011.
(DIR) Post #AIijxcoNb8rlJMdHRg by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-04-22T22:02:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @alcinnz @tusooa 2008 was the last year before compiz went south with 0.9 so yeah
(DIR) Post #AKG4JahqZflwi7kNbk by txt_file@chaos.social
2022-06-07T21:47:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa What is kazv? https://lily-is.land/kazv/kazv/-/blob/servant/README.md does not include a description.
(DIR) Post #AKG4JbEScPrOLH0QRU by tusooa@kazv.moe
2022-06-07T21:48:29.197301Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@txt_file A matrix client.
(DIR) Post #AKG9qru54nnnuyANlI by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-06-07T22:18:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @tusooa I think it is reasonable to develop only for GNOME3, but I'd say then you are then expected to support whatever customization options GNOME3 offers.I think supporting a specific _theme_ is too specific, unless your software is an "extension" for that theme in some way ("Simple Clock for Adwaita" or something). It is just too restrictive for a general-use app to "depend" on a theme - you are limiting your app in a way you likely wouldn't want.
(DIR) Post #AKG9quOzmpiffQe6E4 by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-06-07T22:20:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alcinnz @tusooa The thing is not that devs have some moral "obligation", of course - it is about (reasonable!) expectations, and how failing to meet those is a negative point for your app.
(DIR) Post #AKG9qut7ynp3AskAC0 by alcinnz@floss.social
2022-06-07T22:24:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@eldaking @tusooa The GNOME3 desktop heavily discourages theming, Adwaita is considered part of that desktop environment.GTK on the otherhand is used for far more than GNOME3, and there are responsibilities which come with that!