Post AG8MWzPB2bGwBz8GP2 by bhaugen@social.coop
(DIR) More posts by bhaugen@social.coop
(DIR) Post #AG5GEZY3FsblaSEpwO by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-02-01T16:08:25Z
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@organizingInFedi Interesting article discussing lockin and Amazon "cloud" by somebody who works on it:https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2022/01/30/Cloud-Lock-InCould be create something for cooperatives using Fedi instead of a huge cloud and any co-op could federate with and coordinate their activities with other fedi co-ops?No lockin, pick from several ActivityPub apps or roll your own.Why not?
(DIR) Post #AG5GEaGMb83NnsyE0e by gert@social.coop
2022-02-01T16:37:14Z
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@bhaugen @organizingInFedi It would be interesting to know what the IT challenges are for coops. But so far, all I see is hosting coops who try to use existing bloatware. They pay commercial datacenters instead working with broadband coops. Perhaps I'm missing something, but there do not seem to be dev coops, because if there were any, they would be the place to coordindate this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
(DIR) Post #AG5GEbR2EwBTRGyGHY by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-02-01T16:10:33Z
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@organizingInFedi That should have said "Could *we* create somethign for cooperatives using Fedi..."
(DIR) Post #AG5JK9d2psImnbvXns by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-02-01T16:52:37Z
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@gert Several dev co-ops exist, at least a few have Fedi accounts. I hesitate to name any for fear of missing somebody, but if they notice this, maybe they will raise their hand?But yes, those would be good places to coordinate, or a new dev co-op, maybe a multi-stakeholder incljuding the devs and the user co-ops and the individual users and maybe some of the existing dev co-ops.@organizingInFedi
(DIR) Post #AG5JKAAiofEyU3gRIO by gert@social.coop
2022-02-01T17:15:25Z
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@bhaugen @organizingInFedi I'd still like to know, because then the question would be if dev coops would be willing to develop *for coops* ?
(DIR) Post #AG5JKAd57DvRu0x5V2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-03T01:46:11Z
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@gert> the question would be if dev coops would be willing to develop *for coops* ?It would certainly be in keeping with co-op principles. I was investigating how to catalyse this a few years back. The usual problem of funding is solved if co-ops are willing to pay (and ideally share) development costs for software they want. The challenge seems to be one of coordination. Getting clarification of needs, funds, and dev capacity, to all line up.@bhaugen @organizingInFedi@mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG5JilPg0QKaw3PPpQ by gert@social.coop
2022-02-03T01:50:40Z
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@strypey @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Excellent, thx
(DIR) Post #AG7Ar3JSpP5VUoIgoi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-03T23:20:44Z
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@gert One relevant case study, although they're not co-ops as such, is community currencies. In theory, LET'S and timebank groups around the world could share the cost of developing a software platform. This could be combined with a hosting service, or a cluster of them. @matslats 's work on communityforge.net is an example.@bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG7Bek4Qe4jmINxgdE by gert@social.coop
2022-02-03T23:29:43Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Good suggestion, thx.Yes timebanks could be in for some resource sharing, there seem to be many implementations. In my mind, a NoBank would also make sense, just a database of who owes what to whom, which can then be settled automatically (unlike with your bar tab). Both would work best in local contexts, but that is IMO the most important context. BTW, FYI, I also posted this: http://nlchat.citiwise.eu/chat/sei/index.html#!/Co-op-dev
(DIR) Post #AG7CWGxR6OEfdpDT1c by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-03T23:39:26Z
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There is a chicken / egg problem though. To the degree that the UX of a cooperatively developed free code platform lags behind that of proprietary competitors, it's hard to get the critical mass of paying users needed to fund rapid UX improvements. Leaving it to the market seems to favour proprietary vendors. So it seems that more intentional coordination is needed, to help user groups clearly express their needs to devs etc.@gert @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG7CirYGs7A8bwRtjM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-03T23:41:39Z
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@gert> a database of who owes what to whom, which can then be settled automaticallyThis sounds a bit like what the Cashless.io team are working towards.@matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG7DEis4gJVuxHu6IS by gert@social.coop
2022-02-03T23:47:25Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Forget the market. Only rich people can start businesses. The market doesn't care about people's needs, it only cares about money. Everywhere in the money chains there are people trying to skim, take commission or take interest.
(DIR) Post #AG7HhA3halVbCW9tPU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-04T00:37:22Z
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@gert Also somewhat relevant is this search by @clacke for a mailing list host run as a platform co-op:https://libranet.de/display/0b6b25a8-4861-f8b0-4d50-2c5459562707@matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG7HxbeokTfZQiMQEa by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-04T00:40:23Z
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@gert> Only rich people can start businessesWell... technically co-ops are businesses. But yes, markets are clearly not going to deliver us ethical tech options by themselves. That's why the co-op principles include collaboration with other co-ops. @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AG7JaKp1NNV8SoAFf6 by gert@social.coop
2022-02-04T00:58:34Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Well unfortunately the principles do not seem to prevent coops from disappearing. I am directly damaged by this and very worried about this recent trend.
(DIR) Post #AG8MKB4UM2wUbtLWvA by gert@social.coop
2022-02-04T13:03:57Z
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@strypey @clacke @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales There really are a lot of people who would like to help, especially in this time of crisis. But they are mostly being ignored. Speaking of ethics and crisis..
(DIR) Post #AG8MWzPB2bGwBz8GP2 by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-02-04T13:06:18Z
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@strypey@matslats is a good example of a software developer who has also been deeply involved in the ideas behind mutual credit, and also often works directly with live mutual credit networks. I don't know how much if any financial support he and his collaborators get from mutual credit networks, though. Matthew?@gert @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AGDaUIvVJgwPMoviYy by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-02-04T13:27:58Z
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@gert Do you have a specific situation in mind?@strypey @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AGDaUJPzULKMtNC45A by gert@social.coop
2022-02-04T14:13:17Z
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@bhaugen @strypey @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales IMO this case also shows how a distributed datacenter of our own could work together to make something like this possible. The task of sending e-mail can easily be split up in subtasks and distributed to workers anywhere.OTOH, we should also think about the fact that most of e-mail is sitting in corporate clouds, which is kind of suboptimal. See also this request for comments http://se.citiwise.eu/index.html?j-mail/draft-1.md
(DIR) Post #AGDaUJqDuoJMCjT0yG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-07T01:36:12Z
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@gert> this case also shows how a distributed datacenter of our own could work together to make something like this possibleHave you looked into Holochain as a potential infrastructure layer for doing this?@bhaugen @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales#Holochain
(DIR) Post #AGDakhXZZP58L6YSxM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-07T01:39:15Z
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@bhaugenSee the follow-up post:https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/107736699125737949@matslats @gert @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #AGDaxhPHNXMJgmsDvk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-02-07T01:39:35Z
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@bhaugenSee the follow-up post:https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/107736699125737949
(DIR) Post #AGEP0W7om8FZHDF9Ye by mike_hales@social.coop
2022-02-07T11:02:08Z
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@strypey Distributed datacentre - Cotech in Britain has plans. Tho not on Holo. @username knows more?@gert @bhaugen @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi
(DIR) Post #AGEcaTsrsro49fjJi4 by gert@social.coop
2022-02-07T13:34:23Z
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@strypey @bhaugen @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Or perhaps invent the holomesh..
(DIR) Post #ANSG0xgSsO3xbnmMEK by matslats@social.coop
2022-09-11T09:12:52Z
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@bhaugen @strypey @gert @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Last year I negotiated a basic basic income from Community Forge - enough to pay the rent.
(DIR) Post #ANSG0yhv4SowmbT28W by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-11T12:32:10Z
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@matslatsThat's great news. Community hosting orgs that fund developers to work full-time on software they depend on are supporting their own long term health.@bhaugen @gert @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANSGTeKJvOOryI6ICW by matslats@social.coop
2022-09-11T09:14:12Z
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@strypey @gert @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales See my new blog post about that.https://matslats.net/missing-social-network-murmurations-payload-bonfire-holochain-activitypub
(DIR) Post #ANSLAhEZOIp7FzC00m by matslats@social.coop
2022-09-11T13:29:49Z
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@strypey @bhaugen @gert @organizingInFedi @mike_hales I supposes it is. Part time. It's only possible because of the sheer number of sites being hosted though, especially since these groups aren't informed about the costs of software and prefer not to use money!
(DIR) Post #ANTA4alBdwdJ6SINSi by gert@social.coop
2022-09-11T19:09:58Z
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@matslats @strypey @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales A decentralized identity service for Single SignOn would be very helpful, if Mastodon could use that too.But one would distinguish between trusted and untrusted users/members/guests. Perhaps something like AWs IAM and also things like S3, all useful in a decentralized orchestra. Perhaps the Masto devs could spend some money on that?
(DIR) Post #ANTA4bVcrHmPQU1SqW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-11T23:00:16Z
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@gert> A decentralized identity service for Single SignOn would be very helpfulSomething like OpenID? @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANTAHp2DshUR8kZYrQ by gert@social.coop
2022-09-11T23:02:40Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Perhaps, can it do delegation? Would it have some of the IAM capabilities? Do you have a link?
(DIR) Post #ANTASYniZxc3ycuNiS by gert@social.coop
2022-09-11T23:04:44Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Perhaps, can it do delegation? Would it have some of the IAM capabilities? Do you have a link?https://aws.amazon.com/iam/
(DIR) Post #ANTAwj6qog2SdUF49w by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-11T23:10:08Z
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@gert Have a look at:https://openid.net/what-is-openid/Another option is Oauth:https://oauth.net/@matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales #OpenID #OAuth
(DIR) Post #ANTB9gOKEY93yDarNg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-11T23:11:58Z
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@gert Have a look at:https://openid.net/what-is-openid/Another option is Oauth:https://oauth.net/For SSO to multiple services within one organization, there is also LDAP:https://ldap.com/@matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales #SSO #OpenID #OAuth #LDAP
(DIR) Post #ANTEhE3kNRhFoCed7o by gert@social.coop
2022-09-11T23:52:05Z
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@strypey @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Delegation would mean that the root service (instance) redirects to the most local level where the authority resides.
(DIR) Post #ANTtiIggBSDv9DjyGe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-12T07:31:27Z
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@gert That sounds like something you could use LDAP for, see:https://help.okta.com/en-us/Content/Topics/Security/Security_Authentication.htm... but this is well above my paygrade. @lightweight would be a good person to ask about this stuff.@matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANTvTMcvSF5CvjzSDY by gert@social.coop
2022-09-12T07:51:04Z
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@strypey @lightweight @matslats @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @mike_hales Indeed, one might build something that connects to LDAP using PKI (and not the way AWS does PKI). There is the big advantage that LDAP is already widely deployed.
(DIR) Post #ANVNN5F0lVwROxcMcq by mike_hales@social.coop
2022-09-12T10:44:43Z
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@gert @strypey @lightweight @bhaugen @organizingInFedi Opt me out if this SSO strand? Too tech detailed for me! But I do hope to find time to respond to @matslats helpful review blog on the challenge of open tools and infrastructures in the commons.
(DIR) Post #ANVNN74nwQxv5srEzg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-13T00:37:15Z
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@mike_hales Willdo. Does your fediverse app have a 'mute conversation' option?@gert @lightweight @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @matslats
(DIR) Post #ANdgM8DDUHMm9ETlA0 by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-09-14T13:10:07Z
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@mike_hales @gert @strypey @lightweight @bhaugen @organizingInFedi @matslats https://webxdc.org by the people behind @delta is interesting, in that it is webapps that uses chat as auth. As I understand, a "server" could be a chatbot sending webxdc apps as responses and handling app responses. If Quicksy support "appears", running community-member-friendly services sounds more tractable than otherwise.
(DIR) Post #ANdiCWhDnlJH613rXs by tetrislife@qoto.org
2022-09-14T13:16:13Z
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@strypey isn't #Holochain patented? @gert @bhaugen @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANdiCYXMxMcKo2T1Sy by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-14T18:59:22Z
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@tetrislife I asked about patent and will report back when I get the answer. But in the meantime, here is the license for the code:https://github.com/holochain/holochain/blob/develop/LICENSE@strypey @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANdiCaOa30m8ZMN22q by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-14T21:59:06Z
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@tetrislife Ok, the patent story: https://blog.holochain.org/how-rrdht-works-a-tech-deep-dive/@strypey @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANdiCbJIe895PGuKS8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-17T01:09:50Z
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@bhaugenThis blog piece does a good job of explaining how the HoloChain DHT works, but it doesn't really explain why the HC folks think filing for a software patent is necessary to protect HC devs or users from patent trolls.@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANeeNh5PJ40VqaP4oS by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-17T12:01:36Z
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@strypey > why the HC folks think filing for a software patent is necessary to protect HC devs or users from patent trolls.This is above my pay grade and IANAL and I was not part of filing for a patent and I would not have done it, but there was another company that filed a patent for using Holochain in a very common business scenario. That could have at least made legal trouble for every Holochain user and dev.@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANfpxPOvpVsw4ojEKu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-18T01:46:09Z
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@bhaugen> another company that filed a patent for using HolochainAh ok, that makes more sense. A blog piece that tells that story would be useful here. IANAL either but ... ... rather than filling for their own patent, couldn't the HC folks have used the same money and prior art to invalidate the other patent? Wouldn't that create a precedent that could strike down future patent applications involving HC?@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANgeyEyFBtLhgAOpge by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-18T11:17:35Z
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@strypey > rather than filling for their own patent, couldn't the HC folks have used the same money and prior art to invalidate the other patent?I don't know and have had the same thought. But the other patent did not make claims about Holochain directly. Their claims were about using Holochain in a common business scenario. I'll see if I can find the other patent again so you can read it...@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANhmeixQz4MrgKBZ6O by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-18T11:52:14Z
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@strypey Discussion of the other patent: https://forum.holochain.org/t/questions-about-holo-sail-technologies-patent-crosspost-from-reddit-user-u-goldenkat/6532@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANhmejhAF2wny9a5Ng by bhaugen@social.coop
2022-09-18T16:46:24Z
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@strypey I suspect (altho I don't know, I was not in on those discussions) that patent trolling is pervasive in hitech circles. I've heard about other defensive patents in that sphere. Just did a search, many many hits.@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANhmek5GnQEJAurKxE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-19T00:18:35Z
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@bhaugenYes, it's an issue. The ultimate solution is to get all jurisdictions to do what NZ did and remove software from the scope of patent law. In the meantime, compromises such as defensive patents may be necessary. But since they also implicitly endorse the patenting of software, it's crucial to have robust debate about whether they really are necessary and what other defensive options exist for libre software communities.@tetrislife @gert @clacke @matslats @organizingInFedi @mike_hales
(DIR) Post #ANhmm2eKAWqAmWjiLY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-09-19T00:19:16Z
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@bhaugenThanks for the link, I'll have a read.