Post AFGfDrVjcAVG2YKTaK by urusan@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by urusan@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AFGd5BqYRBPab0nwyu by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T14:57:17Z
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If science perfects a shot that increases your brain plasticity, returning your brain to a youthful learning state, at the cost of old knowledge, would you take it when you get old?More specifically, you'd lose knowledge you didn't spend time practicing soon after the shot, but you'd also be able to gain new skills with ease, including skills that are extremely hard to learn as an adult (fluent languages, musical abilities, visual processing for people blind in their childhood, etc.).
(DIR) Post #AFGdflnSFmXQWAnV1k by huy_ngo@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:04:03Z
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@urusan when I get old I probably will forget old skills anyway, so I see no loss
(DIR) Post #AFGdwOXpxNeDKIQ5K4 by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:07:04Z
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Note: This isn't just some crazy sci-fi idea I cooked up. It'll probably be a real thing in a few decades (how long depends on how hard the unwanted side effects are to fix):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YATDKQHUEsRemember, in the poll it's a perfected version of this technology I'm asking about. There's no side effects.
(DIR) Post #AFGeDv2uN5mf39JEWm by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:09:58Z
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That said, I am extrapolating that you'd lose old knowledge. It's possible that the real world version could be a best of both worlds.However, I think it's very likely you'd lose old knowledge because you're shifting around the connections in your brain, which will probably entail the loss of less used connections that were only preserved before the plasticity-increasing treatment because they were set down early in life very strongly.
(DIR) Post #AFGeejr25bPU9tXjOq by specter@eattherich.club
2022-01-09T15:15:05Z
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@urusan currently with the decent levels of plasticity I have I'd say absolutely I'd get boosted if it fades a lot...but maybe by then I'd feel differently
(DIR) Post #AFGerr5KW8uuLfU83c by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:17:34Z
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It's also very possible that in the real world it would impact people's memories (and trauma), since memories are also encoded in the brain.Memories that weren't thought about during the new critical period could be easily forgotten as they are instead replaced with new memories and knowledge.That said, it should be a simple matter of creating a memory scrapbook that you review periodically to keep memories dear to you alive. You already rewrite your memories whenever you think about them.
(DIR) Post #AFGfDrVjcAVG2YKTaK by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:21:31Z
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As far as the poll is concerned, I'm assuming that memory loss is not a side effect. Either it just doesn't happen or there's some simple mitigation strategy wrapped into the treatment.
(DIR) Post #AFGgLxwFhU22FKA1IG by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T15:33:59Z
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As for trauma, it's harder to tell what impact this would have on it since trauma may be more than just bad memories.That said, if we assume traumatic memories are the key component and working through trauma is basically using your plasticity to create new, healthier pathways, then this would be extremely helpful.A trauma patient either go through therapy during the new critical period and have it be extremely effective, or they could avoid thinking about the trauma entirely until it's gone
(DIR) Post #AFGpn0W5jS4BQarXMG by carcinopithecus@x0r.be
2022-01-09T17:19:55Z
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@urusan "Yes, on the off chance I can finally forget a few things that have haunted me for decades"
(DIR) Post #AFGv8BTChb6dFeQf3I by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-01-09T18:19:49.703956Z
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@urusan I may have mentioned this before, but THIS SHOT RIGHT HERE is something I'd want to see as a precondition of radical life extension, just so we don't end up with a 30th century world governed by 20th century instincts.
(DIR) Post #AFGvLVydlj2ycLUQjI by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-01-09T18:22:14.246058Z
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@urusan (I kind of have a pet folk-evopsych that the loss of plasticity had a positive effect when humanity existed of relatively small extended-family bands running around so someone's personality/beliefs wouldn't go changing and you could predict their actions and responses better, but I think that's giving evolution too much credit.)
(DIR) Post #AFGyLiYbIR3RUp69UO by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-01-09T18:55:53.287057Z
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@urusan There was a story in Asimov's a couple months ago showing radical life extension just starting to take off in a near-term world like ours.It gave a passing mention to neuroplasticity treatments but the person who had taken them said he plans to hold off on doing so again until they have a reliable way of backing up memories, since after using them once he'd forgotten he had a brother.
(DIR) Post #AFH2x0ykARrnA3Mmwq by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T19:47:24Z
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@Azure My suspicion about what would happen (and also why we evolved to lose childhood plasticity) is that you're probably kinda derpy while under the influence of ultra-high brain plasticity.Children aren't well known for their intellectual capabilities, even though they're impressive learners. So, I think an adult undergoing this treatment would not be as intellectually effective while their brain is under reconstruction.Of course, after it's over they'd be better positioned than before.
(DIR) Post #AFH3EAWVvxUngcLGfQ by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-01-09T19:50:32.438878Z
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@urusan THAT is a good point I hadn't considered.It reminds me of one of the ways modernity (especially /late/ modernity) makes mental illness worse: The Dire Résumé Gap.(Way back when if you were reasonably well off and had a big enough accomplishment under your belt you could drop out for a bit and be able to come back later. Now, not so much.)Which makes me think we'd need a bit of societal scaffolding/rearrangement to let people drop out periodically while they melt and re-solidify their brains.
(DIR) Post #AFH3L0lkb9cJSejQHY by urusan@fosstodon.org
2022-01-09T19:51:35Z
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@Azure This is only a hypothesis of course, children also have a profound lack of knowledge and other under-developed brain areas (though of course, with high plasticity, will those brain areas stay "fully developed"?) so there's other factors at play.Evolutionarily it could also just be a sub-optimal trait that never caused enough issues to undergo selective pressure, especially since new generations were always being born to replace the older generations.
(DIR) Post #AFHCm1baUs55SbvxcO by digital_carver@qoto.org
2022-01-09T21:37:26Z
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@urusan To my understanding, traumatic memories are also established more firmly than learned knowledge and skills, since the brain sees those as warnings about a survival threat. So those would be among the least affected.My mental model of “working through trauma” is that it happens when the person is able to integrate the traumatic experience into their mental schema without distorting the schema in a maladaptive way. So if you mean new, healthier pathways that make this integration happens, I agree, and I hope that’s the way it goes. But if you meant the newer pathways replace those related to the traumatic memory, that sounds both unlikely and something different from working through the trauma.