Post ABEXMoKmOh7Egp0SAq by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #ABEWHWRxMZvXowHH8q by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:01:24.582588Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Years ago, way before I was condemned as a terf, I was given a very hard time and called a heartless bastard for telling female friends that I didn't believe a particular male acquaintance's claim of serious mental illness (he claimed to be schizophrenic amongst other things), that I thought he was performing illness to try and appear vulnerable to women so that he could prey on and manipulate them (this worked remarkably well with multiple women). He's finally being exposed as an abuser. I'm not expecting an apology.It honestly worked on me for 5 minutes: he *did* appear very vulnerable, he talked about being lonely, scared, isolated, not knowing where to turn for help, thinking nobody liked him, etc. Women with "fixer" and maternal instincts fell for this hook line and sinker- they wanted so desperately to help him, they offered him unconditional friendship because he said everyone had abandoned him, they tried to get him help. Every time it turned into a relationship, then a dependent relationship, then an extremely manipulative one, with him becoming increasingly possessive.Men like this are fucking lethal and we have to be on our guard against them. They can fool the best of us. Before you decide to dive in and help a vulnerable soul, ask yourself why they've been resistant to every other effort to help them (because thousands of women have tried, every time).
(DIR) Post #ABEWbE1dZgxuTBMVm4 by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:07:06.807296Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora sucks to be Cassandra.It's surprising to me, how many people get sucked in by a skillful narcissist or sociopath and still don't see it for what it was. Terrifying.
(DIR) Post #ABEWxZrz2SmQabVN9U by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:09:41.593191Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @Nora people need to believe we have decent judgement in relation to others and we'll defend that hard for a long time. it's absolutely terrifying and it's why no-one wants to believe survivors; they don't want to believe they were wrong about someone they're close to.
(DIR) Post #ABEWzNkP51GVZWott2 by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:11:28.660957Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @Nora FML. You're right.
(DIR) Post #ABEX5JRK0cf1wuirEe by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:08:12.489082Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora ALL of this + the Drama Triangle. Nothing more effective than claiming victim position and making women who don't 'rescue' you be framed as 'persecutors' (which is what happened to you). Not our drama, not our triangle. Not our circus, not our monkeys. They are lethal, they will suck us totally dry, they're extremely manipulative & dangerous. And not our problem to solve.
(DIR) Post #ABEXBfYigOgcHxDKT2 by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:12:17.377989Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse This guy was *very* good. He was very handsome, charming, appeared extremely shy and retiring. He loved cats, was intelligent, really pleasant to be around. If you were kind to him he was so *extremely* grateful, you were the nicest person in the world, he didn't know how he could possibly thank you, nobody else could make him feel calm like you could, etc. You were on a pedestal. You emailed him once every two weeks, it was the highlight of his life, etc. etc. Everyone wants to feel special.I noticed very quickly (like within a week) that there was a disconnect between the amount of love and support he was receiving (1000s of messages of support on social media, for one) from dozens of people and how isolated and lonely he claimed to be.
(DIR) Post #ABEXKb6WcBJJ4wHdR2 by GrumpyOldNurse@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:15:18.874334Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @grace_hawthorn well, I'm glad you caught on. Too bad about the others, though.I'm pretty sure my sister in law is on the dark triad and she's also soooo charming, soooo much fun. It took me a decade to see the evil...
(DIR) Post #ABEXMoKmOh7Egp0SAq by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:14:49.915177Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @GrumpyOldNurse they're SO good at the self-effacing, charming, bewildered victim. Fucking hate them for it. The ego-stroking that comes with being the rescuer is so seductive. It's so toxic, and so abusive, and so grooming. And it's devastating for their victims because being the one to call it out is the fastest way to get a reputation as a hard-faced bitch, a liar, and to be bounced out of a friendship group. They're really really nasty people to be around.
(DIR) Post #ABEXXDQlwY9nQBlqYy by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:16:49.305295Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse Exactly. Well, I'm that hard-faced bitch, and I've been that hard-faced bitch so many times! But like I said, I *did* fall for it. Nobody's ego can resist being that person who saves the day.Man says "I'm having emotions! I don't know how to deal with them! My male friends are cold and don't know how to deal with them!" Woman goes, "Ooh! I'm emotionally literate! Let me help!" It sounds so obvious on paper, but I mean it when I say the most cynical of us fall for it, and I wouldn't blame anyone for it.
(DIR) Post #ABEXYmuDXALVjbIEQS by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:16:41.597004Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GrumpyOldNurse @Nora professionally, we call it "perpetrator charisma"... once you see it, you can't unsee it, though it makes you incredibly unpopular. It's so powerful.
(DIR) Post #ABEXg4c65yQEgII8w4 by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:18:53.440244Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @GrumpyOldNurse exactly. you'd have to be inhuman not to respond at all to that kind of relentless assault on your ego. You did see it though, and fast. They do this because it works. Because none of us are without egos and they manipulate us. It's so calibrated to get the maximum response for the minimum effort & it makes them really dangerous.
(DIR) Post #ABEYzrZGPOFrxyxz3A by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:20:41.643756Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse Right, and it preys on the best parts of us- the good, kind parts. Ultimately it was thinking, "hang on, I'm not that special. Anyone could offer a hug and a chat, and there's no way a billion other people haven't" that helped me to see through it.Realising "I'm not special" is very useful in many similar situations tbh. Anything where flattery is concerned.
(DIR) Post #ABEYzsAq9gJRqWXzcW by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:23:37.149282Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @GrumpyOldNurse yes, and i think that's what i loathe the most about it all - it really does abuse the best parts of us. And make them into a kind of weakness to be exploited rather than something that should be appreciated & treasured. It's also so true that remembering we're not that special is incredibly protective.... it's also our greatest vulnerability because we all, as humans, need to be special to someone & it's so unspeakably manipulative to hook into that too.
(DIR) Post #ABEYzsmPtyN1j480Bs by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:27:02.090669Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse Yes, this. I have solved this with a kind of next-level egotist formula: "I am special, but there's no way you could recognise my specialness, because you don't know me well enough to know how special I am in very particular special ways". It works.
(DIR) Post #ABEbzCXTFjZWa1VJ6e by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:30:56.978012Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @GrumpyOldNurse beautiful, i love it š
(DIR) Post #ABEbzD6DAZMSJll3Fw by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:43:11.551540Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse It's true though. We're all special. But on the surface level most of us interact at, we're... kind of interchangeable, even if some of us are superficially pleasanter than others. You have to actually know someone well to understand what's special about them. People who tell you you're wonderful are trying to manipulate you: when they know you well enough they'd be too embarrassed to say it (this might only work in the UK)
(DIR) Post #ABEbzbpPEBlz0t5U24 by grace_hawthorn@spinster.xyz
2021-09-10T23:45:23.277123Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @GrumpyOldNurse it's absolutely true, you're so right. I love this.
(DIR) Post #ABFdoo7bZgd91QXLxg by Eleutheromaniac@spinster.xyz
2021-09-11T06:39:13.266209Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Nora @grace_hawthorn @GrumpyOldNurse Can verify: this technique works 100%. I agree with your analysis of the situation Nora. These are grossly dangerous people.I met one when I was still young and stupid but my instincts were sharp. Walked into a room to be confronted with this creature and every hair on my body stood up in warning. Itās like my entire body screamed at me. Long story short, I went against my instincts after a targeted campaign. Turned into a relationship against my desire or better judgement. The person in question told me that I was such a mess, Iād have to be ground into psychological dust and rebuilt to be ānormalā and spent 5 years trying to do just that. The only thing that saved me was a slight variation on Noraās technique.Iām hell on patterns. Theyāre now imprinted into me and I trust them. People following this one donāt even get a first chance. It may sound harsh, but having seen the consequences firsthand I canāt afford a first chance.
(DIR) Post #ABFdq7tbXY9cdkcKWW by Nora@spinster.xyz
2021-09-11T08:14:00.130520Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Eleutheromaniac @GrumpyOldNurse @grace_hawthorn I'm so sorry you were put through that. It's so alarmingly common. But as you said, your instincts were sharp, and now you trust them, at least.I think the bit we probably can't change is finding this stuff irresistibly attractive. Fairly impossible to hack what we find attractive. But we can notice what it is we're finding attractive, and how it's working on us, and step back.