Post A8HpgMCMpnrdGRPPIO by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
(DIR) More posts by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
(DIR) Post #A7XKPi5dgl64NzUT6O by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T09:21:28Z
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@delta Is the full Delta Chat desktop app included in @debian yet? If not, any idea when that might happen?#DeltaChat #Debian
(DIR) Post #A7XRUKD0bZBtRm5L3w by debacle@framapiaf.org
2021-05-23T10:40:39Z
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@strypey @delta @debian TL;DR Don't hold your breath!#deltachat desktop is based on #electron. Electron is not easy to package and I'm sceptical about #security support. See http://bugs.debian.org/842420 Electron has a lot of issues, making an official #Debian package unlikely.Hopefully somebody will write a native deltachat client, maybe as a plugin for a mail client, such as #mu4e, #mutt, or #thunderbird?(Or move to #IRC, #Jabber / #XMPP, #Matrix, which have native programs.)
(DIR) Post #A7YZnPjxG05ctb4JpA by federico3@mastodon.social
2021-05-23T12:06:55Z
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@debacle ...or, even better, #Briar
(DIR) Post #A7YZnQCJYYm6JYKy1o by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T23:48:30Z
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@federico3 Briar is a cool idea and I have tested it, but it's a) a subtly different kind of app than Delta Chat, and b) only available on Android, where Delta Chat has apps for all major OS.@debacle
(DIR) Post #A7YaAZsRja80zm5NQW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T23:52:45Z
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@debacle > Hopefully somebody will write a native deltachat client,Agreed. Electron is not ideal.> maybe as a plugin for a mail client, such as #mu4e, #mutt, or #thunderbird?Delta Chat is a totally different approach to UI from standard email apps, I can't see how a plugin to an existing email app would serve the purpose.@delta @debian #Electron
(DIR) Post #A7YaNSzqcxnhQ6h4OO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T23:55:04Z
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@debacle> (Or move to #IRC, #Jabber / #XMPP, #Matrix, which have native programs.)I use and promote both XMPP and matrix, but the advantage of Delta Chat is that I can message anyone with an email address, not just the subset of people who have an XMPP or matrix address and actually use it. Plus, AFAIK the desktop version of Element also uses Electron and all the native matrix clients lack important features at this point. @delta @debian
(DIR) Post #A7cFgUswVbvsNHXL28 by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-05-25T18:21:50Z
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@strypey @delta > the advantage of Delta Chat is that I can message anyone with an email address> Delta Chat is a totally different approach to UI from standard email apps, I can't see how a plugin to an existing email app would serve the purpose.This is something I've never understood about Delta Chat. If its usage patterns are so different from email that there is a need for a separate app, then what is the advantage of being compatible with email? Or to put it another way, if you
(DIR) Post #A7k5FDYTOC2MWvzko4 by foreverxml@mastodon.online
2021-05-29T13:02:37Z
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@strypey @debacle @delta @debian hopefully Fractal-next can fix this. Its really a shame no other Matrix clients are as advanced, it feels like a centralized messenger.
(DIR) Post #A7k8jrtqFkBoCtITwW by muppeth@hub.disroot.org
2021-05-29T13:41:27Z
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@Strypey @Forever it is. Driven mainly by organization that is also author of the biggest client and owner of the biggest server, and owner of the biggest homeserver hoster, and biggest contributor both in code and financially to the protocol.
(DIR) Post #A7lUbrSCQ2W4enulCC by foreverxml@mastodon.online
2021-05-29T21:12:26Z
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@muppeth @strypey It's really sad. I try not to use Element and matrix.org homeservers.
(DIR) Post #A7lUbrt8ns4E0MWHBo by muppeth@hub.disroot.org
2021-05-30T04:48:55Z
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@Forever xmpp although some might think is dead, is doing pretty well. Recently conversations and siskin got native voip and on dino (linux) voip is on it's way. Gajim is about to release amazing version with new UI introducing workspaces and i think their voip works too. All that on servers you can run on pretty much anything as it does not require almost no resources to operate. small light, privacy oritented, community drivem and battle tested solution.
(DIR) Post #A7lUbsGBQCUz9pIg6a by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:21:25Z
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@muppeth@snikket_im is doing a lot of work to improve the UX and feature consistency of XMPP and recently got funded by NGI DAPSI.
(DIR) Post #A7lV0MJtJNQxKui4dU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:26:05Z
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@chaosmonk> what is the advantage of being compatible with emailTwo words; network effect. People don't have to create a new account to use DC, and even if I can't convince them to install it, I can still message them (unencrypted) from the one app. @delta
(DIR) Post #A7lVFEr5LZp2WrKbNg by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-05-25T18:22:00Z
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@strypey @delta consider email<->DC communication to be unpleasant from the email side, why would you expect the people that you email from DC to feel any differently?
(DIR) Post #A7lVFFKrYrdq1DGNnM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:28:47Z
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@chaosmonkMost people probably have no idea they received email from a DC app. Do you generally know which clients people have sent you email from?@delta
(DIR) Post #A7lbOM0Ijm8H20N6m0 by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-05-30T06:37:37Z
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@strypey @delta Sorry, this might make sense to me if I had tried DC myself. I'm intrigued by the concept, but it's not something I'd use if the Electron app is required.No, I don't normally notice which client an email has been sent from (unless the client does something non-standard), because standard email clients all support the same basic features. If that's also the case with DC, which is the impression I get, then why couldn't a normal email client work in place of the Electron app?
(DIR) Post #A8GRSNfpxc3LjB2HnU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-06-14T03:42:24Z
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@chaosmonk It wouldn't provide the same chat style UX. It's like the difference between how people use XMPP and classic email. They both manipulate text mesages, but the many of assumptions underlying their use are very different.
(DIR) Post #A8GRbTbPHtd0ilIiC8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-06-14T03:42:54Z
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@chaosmonk Are the mobile clients for Android and iThing also Electron apps? I'm aware of a few projects (eg Element and I think Wire?) where Electron is only used for the desktop clients.
(DIR) Post #A8HmwIC7BobNcICK1o by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-06-14T19:17:34Z
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@strypey I don't think that Electron works on Android or iOS. I don't have first-hand experience with either platform, but my understanding is that their APIs for application development are pretty locked into Java and Swift/Obj-C respectively. There are some cross-platform frameworks like Kivy that abstract away those APIs so that devs don't have to deal with them directly, but Electron doesn't do that. It bundles a webapp together with Chromium's rendering engine to create an executable
(DIR) Post #A8HmwIv8UQc9rvGHCa by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-06-14T19:17:40Z
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@strypey binary that runs on desktop platforms supported by Chromium. But Chromium/Chrome for mobile is different from the desktop version. It has some Java backend for Android and a Swift/Obj-C backend for iOS. The iOS version doesn't even use Chromium's own rendering engine, because Apple requires iOS browsers to use WebKit.
(DIR) Post #A8HpgLRZdmQwvJW2MK by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-06-14T19:48:30Z
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@strypey XMPP and email support different features at the protocol level, with XMPP specifying more chat-oriented features (typing notifications, synchronous sessions, online/offline status, video calls, p2p file transfer) whereas email is more geared toward asynchronous communication (messages are organized by thread, and it is not rare for an email to take several seconds or minutes to arrive). It wouldn't have occured to me that client-side UX alone could be sufficient to make email work as a
(DIR) Post #A8HpgMCMpnrdGRPPIO by chaosmonk@social.justos.info
2021-06-14T19:48:34Z
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@strypey chat protocol, but on the other hand I also consider many common features of chat protocols to be unimportant or undesireable, and many of my frustrations with Matrix/XMPP have to do with ongoing proliferation of new features/extensions making it hard for all clients to stabilize around a common feature set, so the idea of working within the constraints of what email already supports and aiming for a sort of convergence between chat and mail is an interesting idea.