Post A7TdaWn65G2d56XRPE by Val_Kyrie@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by Val_Kyrie@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #A7TdaVaeY2UdMDhzN2 by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:06:46.985510Z
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I don't think humans are made for long lasting romantic-sexual relationships, at least not in the way we have historically constructed this relationships into society (so the dating > living alone together > marrying and staying together under the same roof until death). I'm hesitant to believe that's how we'd naturally form and keep our bonds and relationships, outside the context of modern societies. That's most likely how it's been organized to keep society running, with easily manageable and controllable small family nucleouses who would produce offspring.And no, obviously this isn't meant to be some argument in favour of polygamy, polyamory or that sort of shit. At all! š
(DIR) Post #A7TdaVyP7jUYXsoxOK by snerber@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:20:32.129306Z
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@Ari Yeah but it hurts so bad when those relationships break up. Maybe that's my own abandonment issues.
(DIR) Post #A7TdaWOdYCTXrF5uHQ by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:22:17.639611Z
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@snerber Oh yes it does!! It can leave scars!Thing is we're not equipped to know, even putting aside past issues, how much of that suffering has to do with how we're socialized since childhood into the idea of romance, dating, everlasting love and marriages.Obviously I have no way of knowing but I think it's reasonable to think it might play a role.
(DIR) Post #A7TdaWn65G2d56XRPE by Val_Kyrie@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:32:59.405049Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Ari @snerber We are not "trained" to know, but we certainly are "equipped" to know, with our goddess-given powers of observation, and intelligence. The machine is constructed to prevent you from seeing the machine. Learning to see it is one of the most important steps on becoming a feminist. Learning to stop propping it up is another. I'm also not saying monogamy should be trashed. I lived through a previous iteration of that "anti-patriarchal rule" and it was very painful as my then-partner used it as justification to cheat on me. Of course I was not allowed to complain because that was just me "buying into the patriarchy."
(DIR) Post #A7TeptiLEnWyTUCsU4 by Raunchel@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:47:28.163794Z
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@Ari I would agree. But that might just be my own inability to ever keep a relationship going speaking. What however is an issue is that many women allow themselves to basically become economic prisoners of their partners, which means that they lose any and all freedom.
(DIR) Post #A7TgBe701kFaPTfskS by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:52:33.883233Z
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@Raunchel Yeah. I don't want to consider them void of any responsibility, but I also don't think it's all on them.I mean, not so long ago this was pure normality, this was how things were and not few men and women today still bring with them those old ideas, the male provider, and the female caregiver.Then I bet at the beginning of a relationship many are also full of hope and unable to evaluate the long-term costs of their choice.Again, I'm not one of those who consider women to be free of aaaaany responsibility, but I also can see how easy might be for some to end up like that, probably especially in some areas (I'm from southern Italy and we're very...very old fashioned in terms of mindset)
(DIR) Post #A7TgBefNxtkw87lLLU by ArtistBristol@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T15:06:48.916539Z
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@Ari @Raunchel @kathleenbee In my favourite book about Neanderthals, The Neanderthal Enigma, by James Shreeve, he quotes Olga Soffer's theories about their society. She is an anthropologist at the University of Illinois.Based on the fact that Neanderthal men and women were equally robust and strong, she reckons they did not live in nuclear families, with the men acting as protectors and hunters.There is archeological evidence at cave sites that the women and children lived together, probably doing their own foraging, fishing and trapping, while the men lived in mobile camps some distance from the caves. It's very possible that Neanderthals had a rutting season just like other animals, so the men only visited the women when they were in heat.This would make them very unlike us - they may not have had much of a sense of community - so this could be why they were easily slaughtered by the Cro- Magnons. Or other "Modern Humans" moving into their territories.
(DIR) Post #A7TiOKYeEvT9R9mcKW by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T15:09:20.006943Z
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@ArtistBristol @Raunchel @kathleenbee It's so amazing to read there's some evidence like this around.I'm tremendously interested in doing some research about this.It makes so much sense even just trying to lay out some reasonable considerations (which still might take a bit of effort because it can be very hard to imagine something so different from the only reality we know from experience) but evidence? Hell yea.Thanks for your comment!
(DIR) Post #A7TiOL2mQtZWwbsgIS by ArtistBristol@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T15:31:31.016847Z
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@Ari @Raunchel @kathleenbee Here she is:https://anthro.illinois.edu/directory/profile/o-soffer
(DIR) Post #A7TlB7cdK58NPp2ZNY by Val_Kyrie@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:23:45.778896Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@Ari Jo Brew (co-founder of Women's Human Rights Campaign -Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights) sums this up brilliantly. The last sentence in particular refers to patriarchal marriage, which men have set that up to control women's sexuality, and paternity."The patriarchal system is neither natural nor god-given, but socially constructed; the architects of this construction are the professionals. They make the laws and rules we live by, they control our access to resources and they oversee the extraction of labor and distribution of what is produced.The point of organizations in patriarchy is to promote and enforce male dominance. Governments make laws to oppress women, the media and religion create myths and stories to confuse women, and NGOs mislead women into accepting crumbs instead of freedom, leading women up the garden path, selling them out. The point of the free market, money, capitalist systems is to enable flows of energy and resources from nature and women towards men. āFreeā markets make the daily struggle for resources into billions of competitions in which the strongest win, repeatedly. Markets help and obfuscate the patriarchy.At the smallest scale, most humans live in families in which one man dominates and oversees the oppression of females in the group. He is backed up by the state, the legal system, the media, religion, education, and the arrangement of markets."
(DIR) Post #A7Tz2KFUPGJjKQumfo by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T14:27:48.094872Z
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@Val_Kyrie This really is a great summary! Thanks for sharing!
(DIR) Post #A7U234HbYJSDxmwxOq by Chronic-Yonic@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T18:55:00.487573Z
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@Ari Funny that you post this. I'm in a phase where I am really thinking on this. I've had my share of relationships (like really). A lot should have been for sex only, instead of trying to fool ourselves to find something durable because both partners were just not cut out for each other. Some that lasted longer were for the wrong reasons of staying together, even though we did have a lot of things in common, important needs were not met and well, I (or both of us) hid our heads in the sand, trying not to see.I know there are people out there who really and truly love each other deeply and would never part. So is it me? Is it because the people having found their match are a minority? Is it because I'm not meant to be in a relationship? I really don't know the answer to this.
(DIR) Post #A7U234itupHxKRikwi by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T18:57:57.481664Z
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@Chronic-Yonic See?I've known far too many people and of many more I've read experiences. All of them end up asking if there's an issue with them because of this.Isn't this maybe potential proof that no, the issue it's not you, it's not me, it's not anyone else who end up asking this questions, but it's the set of expectations, and fantasies and romanticization and whatever else that gets built around relationships, fed to us since childhood and influences our perceptions to the point of leading us to feel "wrong" if it doesn't work out like it "should"?I don't know, I more and more feel this way!That do you think?
(DIR) Post #A7U2359UJyYWeu9zO4 by Chronic-Yonic@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:08:38.146114Z
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@Ari For one thing, I'm at an age where you know I'm slowly drifting into the sunset and thinking I am all alone is scary. If/when my body (who knows maybe even my brain) starts to malfunction and I need care, only the governmental machine is there. I am not saying I'd want to be with someone so they care for me, now. But if you have a lover or friends, you're not alone. I do admit I miss companionship, I get very lonely at times and feel isolated a damn lot.Back in history, people lived in very small villages and were closely knit, everyone took care of everyone. Now with cities the size they are, and money driving everyone to try and be the best even if it means stepping on someone's head to reach further, the sheer number of people living in those cities and the complete anonymity that those cities bring has a good and a bad side. The good is you don't owe shit to anyone, but if I fall and break a hip, chances are my neighbour won't check up on me.I don't think there's a clear answer to all this, at least not to the point I'm at in my thought process. I'm sorry I don't have a clear conclusion to your question. I feel I'm still floating on this...
(DIR) Post #A7U3gp7TRt32TLjS1A by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:30:09.434544Z
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@Chronic-Yonic @Ari "Back in history, people lived in very small villages and were closely knit, everyone took care of everyone."I think that's a bit of a myth. There have always been outcasts and the involuntarily lonely even in villages.
(DIR) Post #A7U4C6rFY2mgSp3t4K by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:14:39.210069Z
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@Chronic-Yonic Don't be sorry! Your comments are always interesting!And it made me think.If we lived in a similar way aswe did in the past. In smaller but closer communities, maybe we wouldn't suffer due to something like this. The hole that now gets created partially by genuine need and partially by a cultural narrative, would be in a huge part filled quite easily...
(DIR) Post #A7U4C7MRg3jo1Zenh2 by Chronic-Yonic@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:19:09.640600Z
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@Ari That's true. I think the structure of the city itself would need to change, divide neighbourhoods as small villages, create imaginative, unexpected, creative and fun events so people can get to know each other, get to talk, but the biggest problem I see is that the structure itself, capitalism being the driving force, does not give to the citizen a sense of belonging I think. The ephemeral existence prevents all this, everyone is closed in on themselves for protection, etc.
(DIR) Post #A7U4C7n25D0NM2628O by Fullycaffeinated@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:35:48.570729Z
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@Chronic-Yonic @Ari I think there are some parts of the city that are a bit more like villages. Places like Chinatown, Little Burgundy and, to some extent, the Gay Village (though that has changed a lot in recent years). But when people live in one spot, commute to work in another, and do their shopping at a mall instead of locally, that sense of community gets eroded.
(DIR) Post #A7U4dYXajQMG8ixDiy by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:36:10.897626Z
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@Ari I think humans sort of are geared towards long lasting romantic relationships, but not exclusively so, and not necessarily for life. After all, long lasting can mean anything from multiple years to rest of oneās life, depending on who one asks. The most compelling description I have seen is that humans have a tendency for long-term pair-bonding, but that tendency is not absolute and depends on circumstances and personal proclivities. If I were to put it in shorter terms, Iād say that humans mate for the time-being, rather than for life, but the meaning of āthe time-beingā is highly flexible. In fact I think that the most salient feature of humans as a species is their huge flexibility in general. I see no reason why pair bonding would be an exception to that. On a level of personal psychology, I think that one factor that pushes a person towards monogamy is not liking people and not enjoying meeting new people. For someone like that a single long-term partnership is preferable to negotiating multiple shorter pair relationships, or a multitude of non-pair relationships.
(DIR) Post #A7U4tzusiXSZg2gi00 by Chronic-Yonic@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:41:15.182639Z
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@Fullycaffeinated @Ari Chinatown, yes because they are a racial minority and they are closely knit (although I'm not sure they really live all there, I think the vast majority live in Brossard, Chinatown is mostly shops and restaurants). The Gay village is not fun anymore at all. That's where my gym is and jesus all the derelicts, stoned out of their minds, drunks, junkies, etc. I've talked to some guys at the gym about it and they all want to move out. Little Burgundy, maybe, I've only been there for the MarchƩ Atwater which is close by.
(DIR) Post #A7U4xpY5CqdegFqrVQ by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:41:28.832558Z
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@Ari I actually live in a small village. However, I keep to myself and donāt much interact with the other villagers, for the simple reason that I in general donāt like being around people. A small community is no guarantee of communality. Personally I prefer the small community because the number of people Iām surrounded by is orders of magnitude smaller than in a city, but it doesnāt mean Iām particularly close to my neighbours compared to when I lived in an urban area. I honestly think people who live in cities tend to romanticise small villages or communities (ours has fewer than 30 housesā¦ genuinely small). And Iām saying that as a person who genuinely prefers small village life to urban areas. @Chronic-Yonic
(DIR) Post #A7U4xq1VRSAs9VcMMq by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:42:56.325377Z
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@Gnomeshatecheese @Chronic-Yonic As a small village woman myself, I've known village people romanticize cities, but very few instances of the contrary. Anyway sure, people's individual personality will play a role regardless of the context, be it a city, a small community or what have you!
(DIR) Post #A7U4xqWhZT7ziGDGzY by Chronic-Yonic@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:43:39.329460Z
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@Ari @Gnomeshatecheese Let's just say it's easier in a small village to remember faces
(DIR) Post #A7UBHRs7XrPylTxheC by Babayaga@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T20:48:45.475278Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Clariana @Chronic-Yonic @Ari After all 20 million witches got burned in villages.
(DIR) Post #A7W4qV4eOfJdPaowYC by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-05-22T18:52:32.361317Z
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@Babayaga @Ari @Chronic-Yonic Oh yeah, people get all starry eyed and forget the pressures to conform and the authoritarianism present in many rural communities.
(DIR) Post #A7W4yDx5wIswcryAm8 by Ari@spinster.xyz
2021-05-21T19:40:30.089526Z
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@Clariana @Chronic-Yonic The point here I think was more about the small villages with people closer vs big cities with people that tend to be much more isolated and far apart from others
(DIR) Post #A7W4yERa6xGu9QEWIK by Clariana@spinster.xyz
2021-05-22T18:53:56.197465Z
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@Ari @Chronic-Yonic I take the point. But my point is that such villages can also be a special kind of hell for those that don't want to conform. Nor is it guaranteed that you would be "looked after" in them as the OP contends...