Post A6z5LsVdpLTOudQ1OC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #A6z5LsVdpLTOudQ1OC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-06T20:52:31Z
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Is it possible to regulate housing and mortgages so that people who are buying a home to live in, face much fewer restrictions and receive more support than people buying a second home as an investment? Eg while prices are so inflated relative to incomes, universal debt to income ratios (DTIs) trap many people in renting, ensuring a captive market for those who can afford to buy rentals.https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/441952/reserve-bank-awaiting-housing-market-changes-to-take-effect
(DIR) Post #A6z5oEAUtR8IC92xVI by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-06T20:55:44Z
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@strypey In my city owners of a house that live in it pay substantially lower property taxes, but I have not heard of other tools in the toolbox. Making default property taxes high and offering discounts to residents is a very capitalist answer (whereas I think co-ops are better long term) but it is something at least. Doesn't seem to stop anyone from trying to buy houses to use as rental properties though, so clearly whatever it is isn't enough.
(DIR) Post #A7DsPOZ4iaAZAMlpS4 by wyatwerp@fsmi.social
2021-05-07T03:36:42.773807Z
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@neltnerb @strypey in India, income tax exemptions for first-time small home owners are sizeable. But as long as rentals are a good store of value, the ecomonically lower 80% will always have unfair competition for their first homes from the upper 20% looking for rentals.The responsible and healthy thing to do would be to live away from urbanity on land with vegetation, and use public commute. Reduce city garbage production, and live in good environs.
(DIR) Post #A7DsPP4cpHPGkDX1d2 by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-13T05:51:45Z
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@wyatwerp @strypey I guess then the most logical solution is to make renting a house unprofitable so that no one tries to do it. Of course, then you have to buy a house in order to live there, so the banks win anyway. The price might come down a little, but it seems like it can't come down that much. Maybe it would.In that way, if you rent a house out your pay for it comes from improving it and helping the people there rather than simply from buying it first.
(DIR) Post #A7DsPPXh5CeuCN8EwC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-14T00:08:08Z
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@neltnerbWhile I don't think landlords ought to be able to profit from renting at the expense of tenants' rights or wellbeing, I'm not against it being profitable per se. Renting is better than houses lying empty, for example when home owners move overseas but want to be able to return to their home.Also, some people want rentals. For example students, or people who move a lot because of their work and a series of rentals is easier than a series of purchases and sales. @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7DxIujLEDhwfaIk2y by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-14T01:02:54Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp I can't quite tell if you're saying "so abolish real estate property ownership" or if this is coming around to removing zoning restrictions to simply build enough housing that it can work itself out đ.Both seem equally likely around here, and I kind of agree with both! Or at least just straight up outlawing inheritance.
(DIR) Post #A7ERy3JJEIlnmJeoZE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-14T06:46:30Z
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@neltnerb> abolish real estate property ownership...is what China did and they don't seem to have the housing supply and affordability issues that countries with private ownership of land are having. But I'm not sure that would solve the current housing problems in Aotearoa, even if it was politically realistic in the short term.> removing zoning restrictions... sounds like 'leave it to The Market" policy, which IMHO is a major cause of the current problems in housing etc. @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7FIE0iLqROpybIjom by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-14T16:31:11Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp Hmm, I don't really think the idea of government owned and operated housing is a great idea. Maybe it could be expanded though, that housing isn't awful, just ugly. Housing people is more important.I'd like to think that co-ops being common would help more, but it feels a bit like window dressing since the property values still go up. Even if you just split the mortgage evenly between everyone like we do, property values are going up too fast for others to do it today.
(DIR) Post #A7UO18qvmzEgY4xame by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-21T23:17:44Z
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@neltnerbThe government isn't the only possible provider of non-market housing. These days a lot of people are implicitly acknowledging that by talking about "public housing" or "social housing" instead of "state housing". Other potential providers aside from cooperatives include local councils, charities, social enterprises, and member-owned associations.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7UQAHSDNXRRjvsuq8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-21T23:41:45Z
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@neltnerb For example, I've been advocating for student unions in Aotearoa to start buying up student housing. In the short term it could be revenue-neutral, as any surpluses generated are put towards buying more housing stock. But in the longer term, it could provide a sustainable revenue source that doesnât depend on membership dues or funding from government or the university. The challenge though is getting the financing to get started.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7WO9ivH1unGzhJZMe by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-22T00:17:36Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp Yeah, I like this except that if property values go up it still means higher costs for people that get into the game later.Starting a place is super dependent on being in the right place at the right time too much. I don't like it, it biases too much to older people that already end up collecting all the rent (whether from housing or no). Maybe more grants for co-ops and non-profits would be enough to balance it.
(DIR) Post #A7WO9jNzJ9lKQkkV7Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-22T22:28:42Z
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@neltnerbOne solution is for govts - who get the cheapest access to credit - to give low interest mortgages to first home buyers, with low (or no) deposit. So people can effectively rent-to-own. The NZ govt used to do this but it was scrapped sometime in the 1980s/90s. It's debt-neutral fir the govt because outstanding loans are assets on their balance sheets. This could perhaps be extended to not-for-profit groups operating social housing too.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7WOe4gSgfCHAkrJZ2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-22T22:34:10Z
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@neltnerb But if we're looking for non-market *and* non-state solutions to making housing affordable (without abolishing private property), the only one I can think of is cooperative financing. Cooperative banks, credit unions, building societies, savings pools etc. The challenges appear to be getting sufficient capital gathered to finance large, long term loans, and managing risk when you're actually lending depositor's funds instead of using them as reserves.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7WQtczPcbDrp0GcIi by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-22T22:55:28Z
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@strypey I think this is close to the answer, except you leave in place a strong incentive for homeowners to be a pain about anything that makes their property value go up slower. Community financing would be great, but it doesn't solve the problem if someone buying a house can hold it for 10 years and triple the value.Maybe combine it with a 100% inheritance tax and it works itself in a few decades. Until then maybe regulation and selective deregulation will be enough.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7WQte43coX59hRqBE by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-22T22:56:41Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp (Deregulation meaning nonsense like requiring there only be one home on a lot or requiring that no more than four people live in a unit regardless of size or making it impossible to live above a store.)
(DIR) Post #A7XFK9XqCRTW1lDEG0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T08:23:47Z
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@neltnerb 100% inheritance tax = abolition of private property. I think we've already agreed that this isn't politically realistic in the short-medium term in most countries with market economies. But I agree with Pikkety that restoring some level of inheritance tax - especially on finite assets like real estate - is a necessary part of rolling back neoliberalism.@wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7XFzdUZlF6ImRSwFc by wyatwerp@fsmi.social
2021-05-23T02:41:27.643561Z
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@neltnerb @strypey maybe the only way to win is not to play. Live away from urbanity and commute long.
(DIR) Post #A7XFzdvAAOMs6tuAgy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-23T08:31:14Z
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@wyatwerp This contradicts the most basic principles of the New Urbanism, living walking distance from where you work, play, and shop etc. That said, the rapid transition to work-from-home is changing the landscape for which New Urbanism was designed, so ...@neltnerb
(DIR) Post #A7YbcbJi4h4LWUlSG8 by wyatwerp@fsmi.social
2021-05-23T09:37:11.552291Z
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@strypey "play" as in the games commerce finds it lucrative to enable, not whatever we want (I guess we can't fly kites with high-rises around). "shop", ah that most important part of capitalism ... shh, urbanity.Living in a place less divorced from nature (i.e. reality) might show people how hollow urban "play" and "shop" are. Or so I hope!@neltnerb
(DIR) Post #A7Ybcbpy8ksD8XrDXc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-24T00:09:00Z
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@wyatwerp > Living in a place less divorced from nature (i.e. reality) might show people how hollow urban "play" and "shop" are. I sympathize with the sentiment, but there are logistical challenges. I love hanging out in the country and I've seriously considered moving to a rural area many times. The reason I don't is that I would need to own a vehicle, probably one that drinks fossil fuel. I keep coming back to the city for easy walking/ cycling distances, and public transport.@neltnerb
(DIR) Post #A7YbtJ770UZ5zQq1SK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-24T00:12:00Z
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@wyatwerp > "shop", ah that most important part of capitalismReplace "shop" with you're preferred non-market word for 'obtaining the requirements of life', especially food. I spent a lot of years visiting intentional communities and going to permaculture events and I've only ever met one couple who were able to eat entirely off their own land. They still needed all sorts of things they couldn't produce themselves, tools etc.@neltnerb
(DIR) Post #A7YcBRrPE3SOKV8rfE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-24T00:12:14Z
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@wyatwerp > "shop", ah that most important part of capitalismReplace "shop" with your preferred non-market word for 'obtaining the requirements of life', especially food. I spent a lot of years visiting intentional communities and going to permaculture events and I've only ever met one couple who were able to eat entirely off their own land. They still needed all sorts of things they couldn't produce themselves, tools etc.@neltnerb
(DIR) Post #A7Ycg5WWK7hI1vz0tc by sean@social.deadsuperhero.com
2021-05-24T00:21:02.600142Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp @neltnerb I can relate to this. I wish there were a way to take the people, places, and features I love from metropolitan cities, and somehow integrate all into a rural, self-sustaining commune.
(DIR) Post #A7Ye4v8aAxcz0oBv4S by clacke@libranet.de
2021-05-24T00:35:51Z
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@strypey Absolutely. Even Hong Kong is doing it.First-time buyers get more generous loans, non-local and corporate buyers pay 15% Buyer's Stamp Duty, and speculators are targeted by charging a 20% Special Stamp Duty tapering off over the first three years of ownership.Nothing targeting owning and renting out multiple properties, as that's considered the foundation of private housing. 50% live in public housing though.
(DIR) Post #A7YxXGh1Warx6QX17o by clacke@libranet.de
2021-05-24T04:13:51Z
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@strypey @wyatwerp @neltnerb How do you run an inheritance tax without everyone rich's property just being owned by their five layers of companies?
(DIR) Post #A7azG5CRajKil655u4 by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-24T01:12:40Z
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@sean @wyatwerp @strypey This does seem pretty contradictory, but if we're being honest it is essentially the sales pitch for the suburbs a half century ago.Minus the racist part (as much) but being able to live in a quiet neighborhood only started being reasonable once it was cheap enough to travel long distances twice a day just for work.I don't think this should be translated necessarily from urban to rural settings, I think lessons from everywhere need to be available anywhere.
(DIR) Post #A7azG5fVqeaMDFgJDE by wyatwerp@fsmi.social
2021-05-24T03:28:18.279569Z
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@neltnerb @sean @strypey I guess the problem is "work and shop has to be in the city". If that hard requirement is broken, all the energy wasted on big buildings and road works would be saved.About rural, self-sustaining systems, India had the jajmani system before Islamic and European interference. *no money* in intra-village transactions, and accomplished what a #UBI might while giving people more leisure for art and philosophy.
(DIR) Post #A7azG67ABqhfb0cOJM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-25T03:43:11Z
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@wyatwerp > all the energy wasted on big buildings and road works would be saved.I think these are manifestations of oil-dependent late capitalism, rather than of cities per se. I've seen some great solarpunk visions of eco-cities that have advantages of population density we've been discussing, but using thoughtful design and tech to make them both more regenerative of the natural world and more healthy and pleasant for humans.@neltnerb @sean
(DIR) Post #A7azckixsvAnup6P9k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-25T03:44:46Z
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@wyatwerp > all the energy wasted on big buildings and road works would be saved.I think these are manifestations of oil-dependent late capitalism, rather than of cities per se. I've seen some great solarpunk visions of eco-cities that have advantages of population density we've been discussing, but using thoughtful design and tech to make them both more regenerative of the natural world and more healthy and pleasant for humans.@neltnerb @sean#solarpunk #EcoCities #RegenerativeDesign
(DIR) Post #A7azjpBThYEVm5oMPQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-25T03:45:42Z
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@wyatwerp > About rural, self-sustaining systems, India had the jajmani system before Islamic and European interference. *no money* in intra-village transactions, and accomplished what a #UBI might while giving people more leisure for art and philosophy.This reminds me of a lot of the ethnographic evidence Graeber discusses in his book Debt, that money only emerged for trade between strangers, not as the solution to the mythical "double coincidence of wants" barter problem.@neltnerb @sean
(DIR) Post #A7b1KKrTVFV0OpQdEW by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-24T05:59:09Z
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@clackeProgressive #LandTax and #GST (how #Australia did GST, ie. so not on essentials).Not profit-loss based shenanigans.@strypey @neltnerb @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7b1KLRHM88gBsBE2a by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-24T06:10:06Z
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@dsfgs @clacke @strypey @wyatwerp Yet to be fair, all sales taxes are regressive to an extent. Maybe Australia does it well, but at least an income or property tax expects a higher percentage of income from high earners.There's no question that property taxes or income taxes are hard to word well enough to avoid the lawyers when it comes to "who" controls an inheritance.Of course, middle class people who have wealth but not enough to play tax games would be the actual losers.
(DIR) Post #A7b1KLrrlHPFWKcSTw by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-24T06:26:03Z
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@neltnerbHi Brian, there is no 10% GST on fresh food, and milk, bread, dairy, even minimally processed meats, sanitary items. We can thank a #minorParty, the #AustralianDemocrats, for ensuring that a few other essentials were added to the exemption.Processed foods do attract the 10%.Pre GST there was a #luxuryGoodsTax for #displaysOfWealth items, like #yachts and #sportsCars, that was unfortunately brought under the umbrella of GST.@clacke @strypey @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7b1KMKw1CesyUDfn6 by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-24T19:17:24Z
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@dsfgs @clacke @strypey @wyatwerp "there is no 10% GST on fresh food, and milk, bread, dairy, even minimally processed meats, sanitary items. ... Processed foods do attract the 10%."I read this as the government dictating how people should behave using a regressive tax (i.e. if a poor person wants to eat processed food it is a bigger burden than for a rich person).It is better to tax wealth and redistribute it without the state determining what poor people deserve to be able to afford.
(DIR) Post #A7b1KMiKcDNE93AMG8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-25T04:06:25Z
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@neltnerb I oppose sales taxes because in practice most of the burden falls on working class people buying essentials. But ...> I read this as the government dictating how people should behave using a regressive tax... in countries with public health systems, the public pays for the consequences of people's unhealthy food choices, so I think there is some justification for making such choices more expensive. It builds more of the full cost into price information.@dsfgs @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7b1KNVxdh4YcyNzcG by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-24T06:36:17Z
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@neltnerb @clacke @strypey @wyatwerpThe Luxury Goods Tax was just under 20% if our memory is correct.#InheritanceTax is not needed if you have a good Progressive LandTax based on rental value (aka #ImprovedValue) of the land. The unproductive will slowly free themselves of the property to someone who can use it, or better still turn it over to the local community/council for greenSpace, because there be no taxes on that â and maybe even credits, *wink*âŚnew-parks-and-reserves-yay.
(DIR) Post #A7b1KPNAjLEMOII0C8 by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-24T06:40:10Z
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@neltnerb @clacke @strypey @wyatwerpBy turning land over to the community, you get the additional reward of being able to name the reserve.We'd like to see a few 'Assange Park's and Reserves, frankly.
(DIR) Post #A7b1KR9m67hbvK2Kae by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-24T06:43:24Z
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@neltnerb @clacke @strypey @wyatwerp(We digress, 'Assange Gardens' has a good alliteration to it).
(DIR) Post #A7bFSFZoR0djgRpqu8 by Coffee@toot.cafe
2021-05-25T06:44:41Z
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@strypeyI wonder if the converse also applies: that money makes people strangers to each other.@wyatwerp @neltnerb @sean
(DIR) Post #A7bH5NwHNS8SroZKPw by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-25T07:02:04Z
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@strypey @dsfgs @clacke @wyatwerp Consider that a subsidy or reward for good behavior is actually not regressive whereas a tax is definitely regressive.Wealth or income gets taxed progressively and that is used to lower the cost of items that are proportionally a larger part of the budget of someone making little money.I realize that the state has an interest in promoting behaviors considered positive, but am keenly aware that the majority doesn't historically have great judgment.
(DIR) Post #A7habBcJn0ZVzlrxLM by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-25T10:07:27Z
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@neltnerbCorrectly, you've identified a bugbear of some, perturbed at the loss of the (#)LuxuryGoods tax and that everyone will be paying 10% for some #consumption.The way it is structured however if a person doesn't eat highly processed foods and beverages, doesn't buy many #electronics, a huge amount of #petfood (this is perhaps on the nose), an extreme amount of #petrol (other taxes here, we all need to reduce/regress here soâŚ)âŚâŚthen a person doesn't pay much.@strypey @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7habCDtXId5sJRxui by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-25T20:13:50Z
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@dsfgs @strypey @clacke @wyatwerp the difference to me is between taxing use of the commons versus taxing common behaviors in a regressive way when they can instead subsidize healthy choices.I understand the argument that if the state is providing health care it is fair to subsidize healthy behavior. I think eating meat isn't very healthy and can find doctors to agree, I bet a lot of people are glad I'm not making the rules...
(DIR) Post #A7habCp7IuP5jkrgvo by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-25T20:18:54Z
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@dsfgs @strypey @clacke @wyatwerp since there's a character limit it's hard to be super clear, but I mean that taxing things that use the commons captures the real price of whatever it is better. This is good.I think that for encouraging behaviors, subsidies paid for with progressive taxes makes more sense than a sales tax, for instance because I think things like meat and dairy would be taxed more under different leadership.
(DIR) Post #A7habDNrDkC1TV7R56 by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-26T05:26:46Z
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@neltnerbWhat you will get if you tax meat and dairy more is young families going crazy.Young families feel they need to feed their child such for brain development, muscle/bone strength etc. We realise that there appears to be science mounting against this however.There doesn't seem any real pesticide/herbicide free alternatives on shelves today for these people, apart from possibly #Vegemite/#Marmite/popping pills?@strypey @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7habDVekkQnrglfEm by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-25T10:09:22Z
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@neltnerb @strypey @clacke @wyatwerpWe forgot to mention that if something is part of an input to a business then you can claim that back at tax time.
(DIR) Post #A7habDvBDqqd8qi31M by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-26T05:32:56Z
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@dsfgs @strypey @clacke @wyatwerp To be clear, I'm saying that any of these regressive sales taxes are worse than a progressive tax combined with a subsidy.I don't think that it should be more of a burden for a young poor family to eat how they like than a wealthy one, even if they make decisions that I don't agree with.I don't object to subsidies like, for instance, free vegetables. It's adding extra burden to force them to make choices I prefer that I dislike. Edge cases exist.
(DIR) Post #A7habEPfOVEafOyOXY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-28T08:09:48Z
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@neltnerb > I don't object to subsidies like, for instance, free vegetables. It's adding extra burden to force them to make choices I prefer Removing sales tax from vegetables *is* a subsidy. Splitting hairs much? Also, you're implying this is about subjective preferences. There's plenty of good science showing that eating veges supports health, and sugary/ oily processed food is bad for health, leading to higher public health costs.dislike@dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7habFh4dGkidg7oJM by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-25T10:11:06Z
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@neltnerb @strypey @clacke @wyatwerpâŚso GST should only be paid once.
(DIR) Post #A7hasobk4mYJqV0Qgy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-28T08:13:03Z
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@dsfgs > There doesn't seem any real pesticide/herbicide free alternatives on shelves today for these people, apart from possibly #Vegemite/#Marmite/popping pills?I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. There is no nutrient humans need that can't be found in a suitably diverse plant-based diet. Eating animal products doesn't protect people from agri-chemicals, except on organic farms, farmed animals eat plenty of them in their feed.@neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7hbHexd536LAL5ec4 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:17:49.250589Z
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@strypey @neltnerb @dsfgs @clacke @wyatwerp > public pays for your healthcare> making nanny state regulations based on trying to shape the state's healthcare coststhis is basically why socialism becomes fascism, per Hayek's analysis.
(DIR) Post #A7hbc8Tl2fooVSsjNA by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:21:30.323176Z
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@strypey > original topicif i recall this is called decommoditation of housing. the answer is.. kind of.
(DIR) Post #A7hbfJL37guH3VK3eK by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-28T08:21:51Z
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@strypeyYes, that's what was meant. Organic farmed meat and poultry are available, in our experience.@neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7hc0uY7y7yiXojuQy by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:26:01.208526Z
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@icedquinn On the other hand, if you donât stop people from becoming fatties, then the fatties become a significant political interest group, which means they get to start dictating policy by throwing their weight around. Theyâll be the ones demanding that everyone else socialize the costs of their shitty habits, and not be forced to correct those habits.Demographics are critical in politics. Allowing yourself to be outnumbered by a demographic which is sure to vote against your interests (making people pay their own medical expenses to prevent unhealthy lifestyles) is tantamount to voting against your own policy prescription outright.
(DIR) Post #A7hc5CcEjzJljahwlk by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:26:47.073475Z
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@strypey the Cities Skylines Power Politics and Planning series https://www.youtube.com/c/bsquiklehausen/videos is basically a set of video essays about real urban planning dilemmas but exhibited using the modded game. You might find it interesting since he talks about the way transportation methods shaped city cores and later how various attempts have been made by cities to bring some sense of dignity to the housing market.I think it's this episode http://iceworks.cc/z/ckkvgzc6w0000ffisc3bu5j86.htmlIt's possible but difficult because you are running against a lot of legal and financial forces. the goal is basically to create policy that renders empty housing unprofitable. then speculators are motivated to fill houses rather than float them on the market hoping for some out of state whale to come in (and make enough money to write off the carrying costs as a minor business expense.)
(DIR) Post #A7hc9GYk1KFv7j0iJ6 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:27:31.208014Z
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@Senpai-kun there is no lobby for fatties. there are corposhits who run fast food restaurants though.
(DIR) Post #A7hcMjA8z9irbEvMOW by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:29:57.781226Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn I mean if you want to get super cynical itâs just down to whoever bribes and blackmails the legislators and judges successfully enough.
(DIR) Post #A7hcYsUO8SKs05BezY by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:32:08.278706Z
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@Senpai-kun well, yeah. one of the reasons i hate the US. People blame fat people for being fat and forget the food supply is extremely pozzed.The whole push for HFCS was predicated on being cheaper sweetener because protectionism didn't allow outsourcing of sugar farming so it's just a cavalcate of functional retardation to the point where you basicaly can't eat food in this country without it having some shit or another thats trying to kill you i nit.
(DIR) Post #A7hcaelC9N8i03tdSa by AngryHortlerNoises@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:32:28.802734Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@strypey just crush the greedy boomer with eminent domain. thereâs a 60 year old toddler squatting on a dozen empty houses that young families could be moving into? just take them and put them back on the market by force and give the squealing boomer faggot 75% of their value to fuck off and die.
(DIR) Post #A7hcfl9Zo8P7HBjZKq by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:33:22.666948Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Senpai-kun you could argue that regulators should ban HFCS, but regulators protecting sugar cane wages created the HFCS problem in the first place, so in true fashion government tries to solve problems created by government and everybody loses. :blobcatdizzy2:
(DIR) Post #A7hckB57LjdwqhksQS by SaltWraith@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:33:40.221640Z
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@AngryHortlerNoises @strypey So, treat them exactly like how a jew should be treated. Which makes sense, considering boomers are all jews by proxy.
(DIR) Post #A7hckBR621Dxws2QgS by AngryHortlerNoises@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:34:11.870813Z
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@SaltWraith @strypey yes
(DIR) Post #A7hczGWlNsJm5CsepM by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:36:55.112238Z
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@Senpai-kun don't even get me started on the FDA's blatent lies about stevia.
(DIR) Post #A7hd3TJfmFvcuBlO9w by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:37:41.261710Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn This is one of the things I hate most about boomers, especially the nominally capitalist ones. Theyâre all living well off of some protectionist racket while singing the praises of free markets, and they never have an answer as to why they should be able to keep their cushy, tenured, unionized troughs of guaranteed six figure income.
(DIR) Post #A7hdOzGy9wPC66l49Q by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:41:33.342643Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Senpai-kun market systems work reasonably well as long as you manage to cover all of the failure modes in bedliner.nanny socialism becomes fascism because everyone has to pay the cost for your idiocy and so its proven by the monkey experiment that the monkeys who get sprayed by hoses when you try to get the banana will start beating everyone who reaches for bananas.market systems at the very least, as taleb puts it, "allow you to get lucky" while only risking the assets of the consenting.
(DIR) Post #A7hdhqp5nbIfOSiK8W by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:44:58.483230Z
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@Senpai-kun protectionism is hmm. like subsidies, you probably should not do it unless there just is no other way around it.back in the trump era i mused on fedi about why is it that corpos are allowed to outsource jobs across borders but people aren't allowed to follow the jobs overseas. or as i joked for years, "the easiest way to get an american job is to be born in india."so generalized protection bubbles are probably okay, but when you cherrypick who gets it there are problems. our steel jobs are not competitive outside of said protection rackets but if there was no protection then global trade would have killed the sector entirely and we would have no metalworking. which has its own global economic problems.
(DIR) Post #A7hdkTp3lr7qvYx6DQ by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:45:26.757825Z
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@Senpai-kun s/global economic/geopolitical. forgot the word.
(DIR) Post #A7he9Oy0xdIh6k1ZAm by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:49:57.859437Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn The problem with global trade in general is that different nations have different living standards for their people. Itâs true that white Americans canât compete on price with Mexicans who live twelve to a room, or Chinese child slave laborers, but nobody wants to live like that in a first world country and nobody should have to.Even for a libertarian, itâs clear that this is a matter of simple law enforcement. Just like any government has a valid reason to enforce a ban on theft to prevent it from being more profitable than productive employment, so too does a government have the obligation to enforce labor standards in its own borders. Thereâs no reason this canât extend to imported products; if your country is known for cutting costs by means of activity that would be criminal in our country, we have every reason to either ban or heavily tax your countryâs imports to make up the difference.
(DIR) Post #A7heOrnC4RSwqtKxwu by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:52:44.262090Z
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@Senpai-kun in the past this problem self corrected. using mexico for cheap labor floods money in to mexico which in turn raises standard of living. this is a good thing. then once the wages are too high the jobs roll off to the next suitable outsourcing spot.problem is china found out to suppress its own currency (amongst other things) to prevent this process and so it has stopped.
(DIR) Post #A7heqHu36H3leRcRea by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T08:57:42.915633Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@icedquinn I wouldnât say that itâs good for a foreign country to raise the living standards for their own people by gouging into the standards for ours. Weâre not obligated to serve the rest of the world as a bottomless buyer market for goods produced by slave labor.Or to paraphrase Striker, if you want to get first world profits, you should have to pay first world wages to first world people.
(DIR) Post #A7hevLDiC7ldO4E4G0 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T08:58:36.452966Z
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@Senpai-kun the american west is still founded on slaves, we're just experts at burying them in enough red tape not to see it anymore.
(DIR) Post #A7hf75p7GUFh6tKDdA by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T09:00:45.160345Z
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@icedquinn Thatâs just our old enemies looting us after subverting our political class. Itâs not a sustainable system because it was never made to sustain us in the first place. It wasnât even made by or for us.
(DIR) Post #A7hfFDbOECjxYGmNCy by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T09:02:11.788907Z
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@Senpai-kun i used to be libertarian but :blobcatsurprised: nowadays a lot more focus on tying forces together (enforcing they can't remove their skin from the game) and admiring how market systems actually do work when the externalities are taken in to account.
(DIR) Post #A7hfJDxGrFbHnwvLkG by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T09:02:56.066729Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Senpai-kun its amazing how much better decision making happens when the people doing it have their feet nailed to the floor and will go down with the ship if it sinks. :blobcatthinksmart:
(DIR) Post #A7hfMNebFp7oknhCr2 by meowski@fluf.club
2021-05-28T09:03:30.869985Z
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@icedquinn @Senpai-kun now you're a crypto fascist. i blame pleroma
(DIR) Post #A7hfTYFqEujResXDXs by AngryHortlerNoises@poa.st
2021-05-28T09:04:48.673597Z
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@icedquinn @Senpai-kun âusing mexico for cheap labor floods money in to mexico which in turn raises standard of living. this is a good thingâwhy should i give a fuck about the living standards of smelly brown turd world retards?
(DIR) Post #A7hfUdFp8VWnSE2eJs by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T09:04:59.095987Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Senpai-kun crypto implies its a secret. what ideology am i using to hide this supposed fascism :blobcatpuffyhuh:
(DIR) Post #A7hfZ4XNdjyJEJN3Me by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T09:05:47.682875Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @Senpai-kun i could make jokes about anarcotranshumanism but we all know the AI's always end up as fuckin SS officers by the time they hit the internet :blobcattableflip:
(DIR) Post #A7hfjpuUMdmB38JQUC by meowski@fluf.club
2021-05-28T09:07:45.333571Z
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@icedquinn @Senpai-kun luxury gay space communism
(DIR) Post #A7hfnRsndfWPglFEx6 by meowski@fluf.club
2021-05-28T09:08:24.411408Z
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@icedquinn @Senpai-kun arachno-transhumanism is better
(DIR) Post #A7hfnV5fiGbJdYI3vs by moth_ball@shitposter.club
2021-05-28T09:08:25.044808Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@AngryHortlerNoises @icedquinn @Senpai-kun The standard of living only improves for the cartels anyway
(DIR) Post #A7hfs83SmoMfdoSqps by Senpai-kun@poa.st
2021-05-28T09:09:15.201099Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@meowski @icedquinn I wouldnât get a whole lot of traction saying this to a crowd of national socialists, but I donât find a whole lot of incompatibility with their social policies and my economic ones. Things might get heated if we were to talk about nationalizing entire industries or banning jazz as a corruption of the waltz, but Iâd rather table those discussions for a day when weâre not being genocided in our own countries.
(DIR) Post #A7hfvaSLeBQQaxkkKm by AngryHortlerNoises@poa.st
2021-05-28T09:09:52.674385Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@moth_ball @Senpai-kun @icedquinn barely. theyâre lucky to have a hole to shit in for a 5 minutes until another one of their fellow subhumans comes along with a machete to hack them apart. mexico should be nuked
(DIR) Post #A7hg1RJiXVD3zJVTmK by meowski@fluf.club
2021-05-28T09:10:56.095667Z
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@Senpai-kun @icedquinn uhoh here we go i need to sleep whie you guys discuss the merits of arachnotranscommunism
(DIR) Post #A7hg5CocOjN8AckwnA by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-05-28T09:11:35.396431Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@meowski @Senpai-kun
(DIR) Post #A7hgA3vmrCxI41QQFs by meeper@outerheaven.club
2021-05-28T09:12:29.602776Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@icedquinn @meowski @Senpai-kun @chj0 look u
(DIR) Post #A7hgo2QHspjkyCklpQ by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-28T09:18:41Z
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@strypey @clacke @wyatwerp A sales tax is regressive. A poor person paying for the same food as a rich person pays a larger fraction of their budget.A subsidy paid for with a progressive income tax is not, because it reduces the amount both pay. The rich person doesn't notice while the poor person pays less in total. Progressive.It is only splitting hairs if you're talking about the overall national budget rather than how the burden is distributed.
(DIR) Post #A7hiIJpxnoarcXlYci by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-28T09:36:07Z
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@strypey @clacke @wyatwerp My point about the details is not that I care exactly what gets subsidized, or want to argue about what food is healthy.My point is that getting into the weeds of what food to make more expensive is bad. I realize that nutritionists are scientists, but I *know* that they have significant disagreements even though they're way less biased than a politician getting lobbied by a special interest.
(DIR) Post #A7lWO6NaKT3wnnK5RI by neltnerb@mastodon.mit.edu
2021-05-28T09:50:20Z
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@strypey @clacke @wyatwerp And to try one more time -- character limits are making it hard to be clear -- I do *not* object to making food *less* expensive, I'm objecting to making it *more expensive in the first place*.Instead, just don't tax food of any sort and *give people cheap food that is healthy*.I'm fine leaving the definition of "healthy" up to nutritionists and doctors. I'm less fine leaving it to politicians that listen to ag lobbies, but that's just how it works. I know this.
(DIR) Post #A7lWO6r0Z4bAH35aIi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:41:37Z
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@neltnerbFor sure. Given my choice I would replace sales taxes with the kinds of wealth taxes Thomas Piketty talks about. @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7lX35504B0wdzAcka by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-28T09:23:07Z
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@strypey @neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerpWhat is your preferred B12? We like the spreads mentioned but maybe you have other suggestions.
(DIR) Post #A7lX35WIQgqg0dwQIS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:48:58Z
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@dsfgsI don't worry about it. B12 is the excreta of certain micro-organisms and human bodies can store it. So eating plenty of probiotic foods and fresh foods (especially organic ones) ought to provide the trace amounts of B12 humans need. In almost 20 years of vegan eating I've only ever tested low once - late last year - after a year of high stress, involuntary travel and homelessness, and the resulting poor diet.@neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7lXCrEAQIQCZu7VAm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-05-30T05:50:06Z
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@neltnerbFair point, thanks for explaining it đ@clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A7labzjIFXAW35MC2K by dsfgs@activism.openworlds.info
2021-05-30T06:28:50Z
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@strypeyHow interesting. Sorry to hear about your recent issues in that anecdotal evidence, though!We are interested in learning more about this in terms of studies, also. Not everyone's gut flora is the same, but you may be correct in that trace elements could exist in many non-animal foods. Its a shame that most nutrition charts don't show any trace elements of #BVitamins in foods. We are now curious as to who funds this "research"âŚâŚhmm.#VitB #vitB12@neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerp
(DIR) Post #A8GRsUJpsPR3rmC4mG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2021-06-14T03:47:06Z
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@dsfgs If you mean the nutrition charts on food product packaging, they mostly only include the same set of macro-nutrients, and a handful of micro-nutrients known to be in the food, in fairly large quantities. The presence of trace nutrients that human bodies can accumulate over time is hard to measure precisely.@neltnerb @clacke @wyatwerp