Post A5fTCgnFko8uW8vy5Y by edavies@octodon.social
(DIR) More posts by edavies@octodon.social
(DIR) Post #A5fMdosL77MbitIplo by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T10:41:28Z
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Alba Party: thoughts?#politics #Scotland #Yes
(DIR) Post #A5fPmq0YZXCHhj8cjI by Jkp@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T11:16:41Z
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@fitheach My immediate thoughts were that this is not a good thing and will dilute the drive for independence but, having read some of the opinions since the announcement, I'm not so sure that is the case.I was pretty sure of how I would vote in May until this muddied the water a little.I'm still sure that I will be voting for our Independence though and, since I can't see Alba taking a majority anywhere anytime soon, then I suspect it has to be SNP for me again.Those are my thoughts :)
(DIR) Post #A5fRJgZcln2bxElejo by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T11:33:53Z
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@Jkp I suppose a "big name" like Salmond could win either a constituency seat or a list (as per Margo MacDonald). Otherwise AP can't make much of an impact. There is also a danger that AP could dilute the pro-independance vote.It will be interesting to see what happens to the SNP vote in this election. What will be the effect of the Salmond affair?
(DIR) Post #A5fReupOy1bcFGGq2K by matt@oslo.town
2021-03-28T11:37:28Z
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"My immediate thoughts were that this will dilute the drive for independence"... "I was pretty sure of how I would vote in May until this muddied the water a little" -- @Jkp That pretty much says it all. I don't think it's a good thing and it'll end up splitting the vote.Alex Salmon 🐟 is just looking to relaunch his political career because he can't bring himself to back Sturgeon 🐟 @fitheach
(DIR) Post #A5fSBbnijLfWn24cKm by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T11:43:37Z
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@matt Aye, there is something fishy going on. 😃 However, it would good to see Salmond back in Holyrood, similar to Margo MacDonald, he would be a useful agitator.Also, to be fair to Salmond, he was ejected from the party, wasn't he?@Jkp
(DIR) Post #A5fSQ1Xfp222g9RQRM by Jkp@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T11:46:13Z
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@fitheach @matt I can't really remember what happened to be honest. I thought he stood down as F.M.? but I was in my not paying attention phase even then :)I really only started taking an interest when someone said "Independence"
(DIR) Post #A5fSSmsqmJZo5LfFgm by wim_v12e@octodon.social
2021-03-28T11:46:43Z
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@fitheach Tory black op?
(DIR) Post #A5fSbGwatl6xdHSfYG by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T11:48:15Z
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@wim_v12e I shouldn't think so. Salmond has always been a thorn in the side of the British establishment. I don't see that changing now.
(DIR) Post #A5fSjdBO6EjOvAMnWi by matt@oslo.town
2021-03-28T11:49:32Z
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@Jkp @fitheach I think he resigned. But there were a bunch of misconduct allegations at the time, apparently. I saw this Channel 4 News piece where they asked him about that and he said they were "exaggerated or fabricated". 🤷https://youtu.be/knH8c3H7NA0
(DIR) Post #A5fT4hzBR8Z7tni0Se by wim_v12e@octodon.social
2021-03-28T11:53:34Z
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@fitheach I wasn't serious but I can't see many positives in having this new party.
(DIR) Post #A5fTCgnFko8uW8vy5Y by edavies@octodon.social
2021-03-28T11:54:59Z
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@fitheach @matt @Jkp My sarcastic remark on my mastodon.scot account: “So why didn't Salmond just join the ISP?”Yep, Alba will dilute the independence vote but, realistically, there wasn't going to be a referendum in this parliament anyway so not that big a deal. If it gets things a bit stirred up for the next election then probably a net benefit.Unless things change dramatically in April I'll stick with holding my nose and voting SNP for the constituency and Green for the list.
(DIR) Post #A5fTeRuAhbGURyPIJ6 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T12:00:01Z
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@wim_v12e It depends. The SNP win a lot of constituency seats, so, also winning list seats becomes very difficult. Another pro-independence party could then win those list seats, *if* they can get a big enough share of the vote. This close to an election it will be difficult for a new party to get recognition. That's why "big names" in a new party have a better chance.
(DIR) Post #A5fTxecddzuZOUMbpY by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T12:03:29Z
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@matt I sit corrected.@Jkp
(DIR) Post #A5fUehFXkcJJzl5Lsm by wim_v12e@octodon.social
2021-03-28T12:11:17Z
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@fitheach There is another pro-independence party already, the greens. So I think this will simply make votes shift, not generate extra votes for independence. And I think this is really a Salmond vs Sturgeon split, which would make for an uncomfortable coalition.
(DIR) Post #A5fVYXKBq55TQhswls by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T12:21:21Z
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@wim_v12e Yeah, I was thinking of the SNP consequences, but the Alba party could have an even bigger impact on the Green list vote. A lot of votes for the Greens at the last election were SNP supporters lending their votes. John Finnie, for example, probably benefited from this effect.
(DIR) Post #A5fVjnz6EqYCHiOTRY by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T12:23:25Z
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@edavies How much nose holding?@matt @Jkp
(DIR) Post #A5fcqgQVR7rEYBRK4W by edavies@octodon.social
2021-03-28T13:43:04Z
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@fitheach Nose holding as I'm more than a tad irritated with the SNP presenting themselves (and being believed, particularly outside Scotland) as the sole representatives of independence but at the same time getting wildly distracted by other issues. I get the impression I'm not alone in this.@matt @Jkp
(DIR) Post #A5fdFsHeUMt8Z3JJ8C by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T13:47:39Z
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@edavies Yes, I feel the same. I know many others who agree.@matt @Jkp
(DIR) Post #A5ffCxxN8lmxCLZ7tQ by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T14:09:31Z
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@fitheach my thoughts are:https://tube.connect.cafe/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRYThat they continue to not pronounce Alba correctly, and then defend their action, doesn't engender me to their party.
(DIR) Post #A5fgRbKLes81JPr3oG by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T14:23:23Z
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@athairbirb I don't have a TV, and I don't listen to the radio, so, I haven't heard if they mis-pronunce the word, but I can guess.However, that said, there are worse crimes.
(DIR) Post #A5fhGkA2Zf2HTiQ6UK by edavies@octodon.social
2021-03-28T14:32:36Z
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@fitheach Tangentially: https://grahamcluley.com/alex-salmonds-alba-party-website-leaks-data-in-idor-foul-up/@Jkp @matt @wim_v12e
(DIR) Post #A5fiCepeXpR9kNV1lY by jk@social.nipponalba.scot
2021-03-28T14:24:30.306979Z
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@fitheach so long as the victims aren't the green party, which in most constituencies they wouldn't be then they could take a handful of seats and raise the pro-indy majority by a bit.. Salmond has a fair amount of personal support and I don't see SNP suffering much here given they apparently only gained 4 list seats last time round.. so I'm a bit torn.. taking a few seats from the Tories & Labour seems most likely.. but the super-majority is super-unlikely as most people don't understand the D'Hondt system and I suspect are likely to stick with what they know.. but *shrug* will be interesting to see if the polls change.. that will probably have the biggest influence on uptake or not of the Alba party vote as I suspect most folk considering them are already politically engaged.
(DIR) Post #A5fiCfFWzc8Z2dbh6O by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T14:43:01Z
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@jk The Greens may well be the losers in this election, because of the Alba Party. I know lots of SNP supporters who "lent" their list vote to the Greens, at the previous election. An additional alternative indie party may see the Green vote decrease.As the AP is unlikely to gain constituency seats it will increase their likelihood of getting list seats from the Unionist parties.
(DIR) Post #A5fihT3WNXQ2CUg4Ya by Jkp@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T14:35:02Z
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@edavies @fitheach @matt @wim_v12e Oooerr missus!That's a bit of a blunder
(DIR) Post #A5fihTTOpK7RUkmjtQ by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T14:48:39Z
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@Jkp @edavies I've just had a look, the AP website is a NationBuilder site. That being the case, the security flaw must be very common for may political organisations.@matt @wim_v12e
(DIR) Post #A5fjxeQ7zcVM2DX4E4 by jk@social.nipponalba.scot
2021-03-28T14:52:31.473878Z
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@fitheach indeed, however the most vulnerable seats are the ones at the bottom of the lists and in most regions those are not the greens. I'm sure there will be some 'lent' green votes that go the way of AP but I think the Greens will gain some pro-EU former labour votes which may or may not be enough to compensate. The more votes AP get then of course the Greens will lose out but supposing they get the bare minimum of votes required for a seat per region the Tories and labour would lose more seats (though less damaging to them from a proportionality perspective), which would be a small boost to pro-indy seat numbers.. At least that's how I read the situation.
(DIR) Post #A5fjxem6fu5N8NocU4 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T15:02:46Z
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@jk Aye, agreed.The Tories might be vulnerable to a few loses because they have a few constituency seats. Here's hoping.In Highlands & Islands the Greens not only have to worry about AP, but also Andy Wightman, who is standing as an independent.
(DIR) Post #A5fr0YhmOjq8rC7eUq by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T16:21:42Z
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@fitheach och for sure, it's just the defence mounted doesn't come across well.Otherwise, their addition to the vote won't change where I'm going to place my ☑️ ☑️
(DIR) Post #A5fr9AI2XgXnk0BdVw by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-28T16:23:18Z
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@athairbirb I'm uncertain where I'll place my votes in this forthcoming election.
(DIR) Post #A5ftmGjIjWiwuoiBu4 by zladuric@mastodon.technology
2021-03-28T16:52:45Z
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@fitheach @athairbirb is there a fits-in-a-toot summary of the coming election? Who's playing, what's at stake, where are the odds?
(DIR) Post #A5iEznMfCBZrFUKmLA by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-28T16:59:48Z
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@zladuric In a toot, it's a proxy for Scottish self-governance.SNP are looking to get a majority again (>50%), they want support from Green Party, ISP or Alba Party to get a supermajority (67%) for the referendum.Pro union with England are Labour, Lib Dems and Conservatives.Not too sure what other policies the parties have, they've not really started electioneering yet.Odds are consistently in favour of SNP et al, as polls indicate anyway.@fitheach
(DIR) Post #A5iEznklkYrMSFc1ui by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-29T07:12:50Z
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@athairbirb @zladuric @fitheach Leaving aside any specifics about policy, I see that the #SNP has been in power since 2007. About time to boot them out of office, no?#scotpol
(DIR) Post #A5iEzo6kQqRNYPtaAi by zladuric@mastodon.technology
2021-03-29T07:50:44Z
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@mpjgregoire @athairbirb @fitheach Leaving aside specifics about #snp and #scotpol, the trouble with booting parties out of office is that the alternatives are worse in about half the cases. Usually it's a power struggle between two "strong" parties and maybe a few percent left for the pickings.And of the two contenders, I've is consistently being worse then the other, so it's a choice of lesser evil.Back to #scotpol specifics: how are people percieving these two blocks?
(DIR) Post #A5iEzoSj781OeaB8Qi by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-29T10:32:30Z
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@zladuric @athairbirb @fitheach Let us say that there are two parties with a serious chance of governing, one better and one worse. Of course one should prefer the better party, ceteris paribus. But the longer the better party is in power, the worse it becomes: losing connection with the regular people, confusing what is good for the party with what is good for the citizens, running out of constructive ideas to implement, in the worst cases becoming corrupt.#politics
(DIR) Post #A5iEzotfUxZY08meQK by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-29T10:38:18Z
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@zladuric @athairbirb @fitheach At some point the rot becomes so bad that it is desirable for the generally worse party to take over government, at least for a few years.I make no claim about whether the #SNP is at that stage with regard to its competitors, but 14 years is already a long time for a party to govern.
(DIR) Post #A5iEzpDWJ9S4zi4VMm by zladuric@mastodon.technology
2021-03-29T12:57:07Z
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@mpjgregoire @athairbirb @fitheach That does make sense. Again, purely abstractly speaking, you also don't want to pick the worse party, or else you end up with the likes of johnson or trump. Sometimes worse trully is worse.Again, speaking without any concern as to what level of incompetence, corruption and other problems scotish politics might have.
(DIR) Post #A5iEzpbGsqS0BNBTO4 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-29T19:59:49Z
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@zladuric @mpjgregoire @athairbirb For many people, myself included, *all* political questions come down to whether you support Scottish independence, or not. Indie is important in itself, but also determines the political future for the country in almost all policy areas.The SNP have demonstrated competence in government, but they also benefit from being the largest party supporting indie.This election may be even more important than the 2011 poll. To keep indie alive the SNP need to win.
(DIR) Post #A5iGC14i97e3CTKQHA by zladuric@mastodon.technology
2021-03-29T20:13:17Z
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@fitheach @mpjgregoire @athairbirb being part of uk has a lot of downsides, right?
(DIR) Post #A5iPPSnNIDfCWdhrAe by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-29T21:56:29Z
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@fitheach @zladuric @athairbirb My experience of the #Québec separatist movement [0] is that an independence movement is not mortally weakened by having another party form government.However, there are at least two ways in which a pro-independence party can fail:1. Independence can become a symbolic goal, to be achieved someday, but never soon.2. The party can be so fixated on independence that it forgets to govern well.[0] Which I oppose, FWIW.
(DIR) Post #A5k67Eq9OMB485TASe by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-30T12:42:14Z
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@fitheach and @athairbirb , aren't you going to answer? Surely there's a link you could send explaining why Scots would be better off independent of the UK?#scotpol@zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5k67FEbvPk9LwuhaS by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-30T12:58:49Z
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@mpjgregoire Scotland votes consistently for SNP (centre-left) whilst we get Centre-right to Right-wing governance in Westminster (WM).This is where self-governance comes in. Majority of policy-wants aren't represented by WM.WM, ultimately, hold the purse strings and actively push to deny democracy and protest.WM failed to capitalise on North Sea. Corruption is rife. Insular politics. London-centric.TBH, there're many reasons to leave and few to stay.@fitheach @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5k67Fd4STJEZoMEiG by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-30T16:23:32Z
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@athairbirb @fitheach When did Scotland become a centre-left polity? I've always thought of Scots as entrepreneurial, individualistic, knowing the value of a pound, working hard to get ahead in life, proud of their heritage sorts of men and women.(I've never been to the British Isles, myself, so where I got that idea from, I don't know.)@zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5k67FwZHyuBYHTo6S by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-30T17:05:06Z
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@mpjgregoire honestly unsure. Scotland, as a nation, hasn't voted for Conservatives since '55 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Scotland#UK_Parliament). It's not exactly a reliable marker.This is a good article by a respected Professor though, which will go some way to explaning it: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/14/history-turned-on-tory-voting-scotland-thatcher-1980s@fitheach @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5k67GH83XLsa36E9Q by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-30T17:29:56Z
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@athairbirb The '55 election is often cited as the last time the Tories won a majority in Scotland, but it isn't true. It was the Unionist Party that won 30 seats in Scotland. Although, the UP always sat & voted with the English Conservatives it was separate party. The UP projected themselves as a Scottish party. The union (in the name) was the Irish one, not Scottish. Many UP members/politicians supported Scottish indie, within the commonwealth (rather like Canada).@mpjgregoire @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5k67GhiSgcRuVXSam by athairbirb@mastodon.scot
2021-03-30T13:06:09Z
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@mpjgregoire on the reasons for staying, UKGov literally aren't citing anything. No better economy, not trying on currency etc.They only want to deny Scotland's option to have a referendum, citing "once in a generation", omitting "opportunity" and then forgetting their "generation" is 7 years (so 2021) as given in GFA, which they also don't care for.The "we hold power as UK" has been blown apart via brex. They haven't delivered on further devo promises either.@fitheach @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5khWawa2olSE6QmvY by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-31T00:29:00Z
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@fitheach @athairbirbIndeed, it is at least theoretically possible to have a pro-independence right-wing party, though that is not how Scottish politics have evolved. @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5mGDraRdJqvtZqBn6 by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-31T00:25:14Z
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@athairbirb @fitheachThanks for the article. Very illuminating. It seems that Scotland has only been a centre-left polity since the mid-80s, not so long ago.@zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5mGDs73g3wNWj6Ecq by fitheach@mstdn.io
2021-03-31T18:32:39Z
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@mpjgregoire No, no, no. As mentioned previously there were other large parties in Scotland, who were centrist or right of centre (as defined by the period), but there has always been strong left of centre support. The Labour party had its foundations in Scotland, at the end of the 19th century, and was the largest party from the mid-'50s onwards.The current Labour Party moved rightwards, and became substantially more British, allowing the SNP to capture their support.@athairbirb @zladuric
(DIR) Post #A5mMhgxuHuUNMjQCeW by mpjgregoire@mamot.fr
2021-03-31T19:45:14Z
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@fitheach @athairbirb @zladuric Would it be accurate to say that Scotland was more evenly divided between the left and the right until the 1980s, and then the right declined for various reasons, leaving the nation essentially centre-left?I appreciate the attempt to educate me in modern Scottish politics.