Post A548HykYIHzbSgMuSe by toyomike68@social.quodverum.com
(DIR) More posts by toyomike68@social.quodverum.com
(DIR) Post #A53VVgGHvtNLxnktk0 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T04:21:27Z
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@wildcatf4f4 Ad hoc rescues are the worst. They produce "zombie science". "Zombies have analogs in obsolete conjectures–propped up as conventional wisdom–in science and maintained for reasons and methods outside of science (Charlton, 2008)."Scathing geophysics article on Mantle Plumes: http://www.mantleplumes.org/Zombie.htmlTo fortify a theory: Publicly attack it from every angle and with all your might. It if needs to be continually propped up by ad hoc repairs, bury it. It might just be a zombie.
(DIR) Post #A53XUs2Yr2lG744mlU by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T04:43:36Z
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@wildcatf4f4 And their goalpost shifters. Argument From Authority, the fallacy that something must be true because an authority on that subject believes it to be.It's a shift away from arguments and evidence and onto persons.That fallacy is undergoing ad hoc repairs.https://www.logical-fallacy.com/articles/appeal-to-authority/"This can be a fallacy if the person referenced does not have the proper authority." No, it is a fallacy because authority has NOTHING to do with viability of a theory or efficacy of an argument.
(DIR) Post #A53YV7TFaI3nvLF5d2 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T04:54:57Z
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@wildcatf4f4 I propose a new logical fallacy:Argument From Fauci(argumentum ab fauci)A subset of argument from authority and appeal to authority, it is when a "properly credentialed" authority can be shown take every side of a theory as circumstances warrant.
(DIR) Post #A53Yc26NwZftIeqO36 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T04:56:11Z
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@wildcatf4f4 I propose a new logical fallacy:Argument From Fauci(argumentum ab fauci)A subset of argument from authority and appeal to authority, it is when a "properly credentialed" authority can be shown to have taken every contradictory position or side of a theory as circumstances warrant.
(DIR) Post #A53aj5bVWPIo62tT5k by ThomasWic@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:19:53Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 That's why I left all the First World War discussion forums.I theorized that the Turks fought on the Italian front, based on the alpine training they got from the Bulgarians.The "experts" wouldn't even consider the idea.Behold a Turkish officer (second from left) wearing a Turkish steel helmet, leading his men, who wear GERMAN steel helmets.On the Italian front, 1917.I now have a couple of dozen such photos.
(DIR) Post #A53bqnAK3jc7BJPmlM by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:32:29Z
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@ThomasWic @wildcatf4f4 I presented some ideas to the late Warren B. Hamilton, one of the authors of the article I referenced on zombie science. He was a Penrose Medal winner, highest honor in Earth Sciences."Entirely plausible." He added that if I wanted to get cut to ribbons I could run it past "anyone here at this conference"."So you were being tongue-in-cheek about plausibility?""NO. I see nothing wrong with your ideas. The danger for you is in the fact that you came up with them."
(DIR) Post #A53dHoFoDiIOKXQb2m by Wendy@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:48:35Z
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@StevenDouglas That sounds like that could put the kabosh on 'expert testimony' in court.@wildcatf4f4
(DIR) Post #A53dXZhw4SJJqh6M1g by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:51:26Z
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@Wendy @wildcatf4f4 Expert testimony is fine to the extent that the expert produces arguments and/or evidence in support of their conclusions.The process is SERIOUSLY abused when experts are permitted, without adequate cross-examination, to simply state a conclusion without anything in support.
(DIR) Post #A53dn9TTNCip7ZlRb6 by Wendy@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:54:15Z
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@StevenDouglasThere is also the term I heard my mother use referring to what they were taught in '40s high school - 'Root Authority' - along the line of to not take just anyone's word for it but go for the closest authority on a subject.@wildcatf4f4
(DIR) Post #A53eDxMsUayhOPSe3s by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T05:59:06Z
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@Wendy @wildcatf4f4 That's all I have EVER done. Go straight to ALL the top heavyweights on all sides of anything. And it doesn't mean any of them are right about anything (conclusory). But they define all the knowns on the battlefields. They are the CLEAREST writers, pull no punches, and from there (who they cite) you're out of all the inane obfuscating dross and into the meat of everything.
(DIR) Post #A53irw3PCHWwiWfi6a by Cdubois@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T06:51:09Z
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@StevenDouglas Wow. That last quote says it all. @ThomasWic @wildcatf4f4
(DIR) Post #A53l6OhFhVrnVtKjyK by Debradelai@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T07:16:10Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 "Argument From Authority, the fallacy that something must be true because an authority on that subject believes it to be."Worst even, when an authority in an unrelated field believes it to be.Quite a common twist.
(DIR) Post #A53oN6U0yGxnoJndDM by seeker@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T07:52:48Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@Cdubois @StevenDouglas @ThomasWic @wildcatf4f4 The following article found in the reference posted by Steven shows, that zombie science leads to less technological progress:http://www.mantleplumes.org/WebDocuments/Charlton2008.pdfTake climate (a zombie science, that is now the dominant religion even).Take the going down of productivity:https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/why-is-productivity-growth-so-low-23-economic-experts-weigh-inSo this here is one of the biggest problems of humanity. But given DJTs cutting of red tape for the new vaccines, I am somewhat optimistic.
(DIR) Post #A53rN3SuUVPUJUx2cS by oystergirl@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T08:26:24Z
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@Cdubois Absolutely chilling and sums up the scientific "community" in a nutshell. @StevenDouglas @ThomasWic @wildcatf4f4
(DIR) Post #A53stj2zWeWqUxyEBE by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T08:43:31Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Debradelai @wildcatf4f4 A running joke and common conversational theme at a GSA conference in 2010, by mostly GEOLOGISTS:"Just make sure your grant proposal ends with ...and to consider any of its possible effects on climate change."
(DIR) Post #A548HykYIHzbSgMuSe by toyomike68@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T11:35:59Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 The typical tactic of the Left is to validate arguments through supposed Objective" 3rd party "experts" who are not really "objective" at all. "Fact checkers" are only one version of this tactic. The other is to cite "Republican" or "conservative" sources, attempting to create the idea that an argument is "bipartisan", when the source is really "establishment". Scientists are as easily bought as politicians.
(DIR) Post #A54DxKbuQAkau9rbMm by evenflo@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T12:39:28Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 @ThomasWic The Theory of Plate Tectonics is a hot mess that falls apart if one digs too deeply.
(DIR) Post #A54GHHg5EaAVVdSSTQ by Reanne13@noagendasocial.com
2021-03-10T13:05:28Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 Thank you for providing this. Just recently, my partner's X wife was running her mouth about how we wouldn't be in this mess of a year long pandemic if people would just teach their children to obey. I'm so proud of him for standing up to that and telling her that's fascism and exactly how Nazi Germany came to be. I consider blind obedience to authority to be slavery but tomato/tomato.
(DIR) Post #A54Iwxi24DAbeHN3ce by Merilalla@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T13:35:26Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 This has been my experience with the scientific world from my first days as a bio major in college. So much for all the stress on learning the “scientific theory” in HS, only for all of it to be thrown out the window by most in the scientific community. It was always a “dog eat dog “ world!
(DIR) Post #A54K4oor6T24LcsA3E by tinadiz@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T13:48:03Z
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@StevenDouglas @Wendy @wildcatf4f4 THe higher up the expert, the worse of an impact.... Pedestal effect on steroids.coughcoughFAUCIcough
(DIR) Post #A54LQpWtF8l4sLWrjs by PathIntegral@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:03:14Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 There are countless zombies in science today, particularly in fields with a weak scientific feedback loop, such as most of biology and its applications in biomedical technology, along with well understood zombies such as those infecting climate science.I'm beginning to think there are similar issues in the quantum world where our tax dollars are going to be funneled even harder soon.
(DIR) Post #A54LUmgbkx6fDQxaOu by seanongley@noagendasocial.com
2021-03-10T14:03:57Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 Could a narrative be fact checked by AI if the system was built to the specifications of philosophers and, unfortunately, lawyers?
(DIR) Post #A54LYV4JCUj7jXolH6 by seanongley@noagendasocial.com
2021-03-10T14:04:38Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 Could a narrative be fact checked by AI if the system was built to the specifications of philosophers and, unfortunately, lawyers? In other words, can you build bots to snope snopes?
(DIR) Post #A54La1J6p6Q20fSuOW by PathIntegral@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:04:54Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 There are countless zombies in science today, particularly in fields with a weak scientific feedback loop, such as most of biology and its applications in biomedical technology, along with well understood zombies such as those infecting climate science. A veritable zombie apocalypse currently besets the world of "AI" research.I'm beginning to think there are similar issues in the quantum world where our tax dollars are going to be funneled even harder soon.
(DIR) Post #A54LiqDLR5pGDByWqu by trueblueTEX@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:06:29Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ThomasWic Wow!! I have NEVER seen that kind of helmet, before. I know it's been decades since I've had access to books just on helmets, but I know that I would have remembered one with that kind of "skirt".Interesting.@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4
(DIR) Post #A54P5HAgBtJY3D7NMO by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:44:10Z
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@evenflo @wildcatf4f4 @ThomasWic Plate Tectonics is what drew me deeply into geophysics, still has the same problem Wegener was crucified over.No widely agreed upon mechanism. They can't say that arises directly from solid state convection, so they resort to bullshit leaps-o-logic words like, "...is a manifestation of poorly understood deep Earth processes."
(DIR) Post #A54PY8SFg5MZPm6Acq by evenflo@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:49:23Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 @ThomasWic ...with disregard for simple mechanical physics...I came to my conclusions after years of interpreting 100s of square miles of seismic - 2D and 3D. Uniformitarianism and tectonics do not explain the orogenic, structural, and depositional features on this planet
(DIR) Post #A54PiZAZCweXAHngO0 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T14:51:16Z
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@Merilalla @wildcatf4f4 The cartoon diagrams in HS curriculum give a sense of neat and tidy completeness; that we have a full basic understanding of a given highly complex science, that all the "major breakthroughs" have been made, and that the only thing left is cleanup on Aisle Five details. Could not be further from the truth in most cases. Neat and tidy really only equates to hierarchical and milieu controls. Thar be many a basic horizon out thar jesta a-waitin' to be explarrrrred.
(DIR) Post #A54RJwEUWPYBMa1JMe by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T15:09:13Z
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@evenflo @wildcatf4f4 @ThomasWic Agree 100%. Wegener took us from strictly vertical motions (which could not be denied) - to lateral displacement as well.The uniformitarians locked that down with, "This far and no more."Now we have 4D (lateral-horizontal-vertical) displacement, but only of "quasi-rigid" (ad hoc) plates, which can only slightly deform at their boundaries (also ad hoc).That rigidity will also be flushed, and I believe that I know how and why.Partly because I'm a baker.
(DIR) Post #A54Rkdpx1bt281H61Y by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T15:14:03Z
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@pma05 @wildcatf4f4 "No, not THAT kind of socialism. We MEAN, ad hoc, the kind that works!"Yes. That really is a zombie apocalypse.
(DIR) Post #A54SxFRR8axwBbNq40 by StevenDouglas@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T15:27:32Z
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@LuizLibonati @pma05 @wildcatf4f4 "But we'll get there. It's going to be hard, nobody said it was going to be easy. It will require sacrifices. Nothing will be the way it was before. The spoiled are going to learn that a lot of selfish luxuries - and traditional jobs - just aren't going to be there any more. They're not coming back, so get used to it."That's how you know you're in the presence of the enemy, whenever you hear someone talk like that.
(DIR) Post #A54uqVpEccgVgn5jBw by seeker@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-10T20:40:03Z
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@StevenDouglas @evenflo @wildcatf4f4 @ThomasWic I think I did send you a link to Herndon before, her on Wegener and stuff:http://nuclearplanet.com/Herndon's%20Geodynamics.html
(DIR) Post #A57brMwDpp28lCvzf6 by Merilalla@social.quodverum.com
2021-03-12T03:51:29Z
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@StevenDouglas @wildcatf4f4 Yup, many of those horizons will still remain out of reach, Explore as we might, there are mysteries to life that we just will not be able to explain, at least not for many years yet...if at all...