Post A3r9LJkfPy1Sz1dGCW by Help-me-hoagie-man@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by Help-me-hoagie-man@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #A3pzeKxdx7F1XJAkaG by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:00:37.007918Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It is world hijab day. Can wearing hijab ever be empowering? (I appreciate this is a really culturally sensitive subject before anyone tells me!!)
(DIR) Post #A3q2Nt4s9d4QHpOxHc by Gnomeshatecheese@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:19:42.262056Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat Or as I like to call it, "prance about town with hair flowing in the wind, wearing trousers that show the shape of my legs, while looking straight at men I'm not related to - Day". You don't have to go too far back in time, till my direct foremothers were more or less forbidden from doing all of the above, though not because of Islam. I don't care what form modesty culture takes, I'm against it all the same.
(DIR) Post #A3q2luhflFqQHM0SzA by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:04:06.684858Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat https://twitter.com/MaryamNamazie/status/1356192671241539585Be Honest #WorldHijabDay organisers. This is fundamentalist attempt to normalise #Hijab, not defence of #women or anti-#racism. #Hijabphobia like #Islamphobia about defending Hijab & Islam, not human beings, & certainly not women. #WomenLeavingIslam
(DIR) Post #A3q2lvEdmgDRvbQnNA by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:06:31.653914Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat https://maryamnamazie.com/challenging-world-hijab-day-1-february/Women Leaving Islam, a new film by the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain, premieres on 1 February at 6pm UK time as a challenge to #WorldHijabDay and religious modesty rules. You can watch the film here.In this powerful film, six ex-Muslim women activists share their moving stories of growing up in Muslim families and Muslim-majority countries and the violence, loss and shunning they faced because of their apostasy………………………………….
(DIR) Post #A3q2lvhM3vBVMerj84 by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:09:53.544678Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #A3q2tRaNu4UwHzBjxg by Icarus_girl96@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:05:11.193919Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat This is a question I really enjoy discussing - I’m not Muslim so obviously my opinion doesn’t count for much. Imo, a hijab can make an individual woman feel empowered and it is her choice - the same way I like having smooth legs - both things came about as a tool to control and oppress women in this patriarchal world, even if we acknowledge these things can make us feel good, they are still patriarchal.
(DIR) Post #A3q79usPAWitaAjA1Y by Zephyranthes@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:12:06.418126Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat I'm never quite sure what folks mean exactly when they call something "empowering", what would be your definition? It's such a buzzword that I'm having a hard time pinning it down in my head...I'm in the somewhat-rural US Deep South and know/have met exactly zero women who wear hijab, so I'm not familiar with the extent of the social pressure on Muslim women and girls to wear hijab... but I am wondering if clothing/presentation itself empowers or dis-empowers (part of why I'm wondering about a solid definition). Like, if hijab is empowering/not empowering, then can we say if something like "Sl*t Walk" is or is not empowering?
(DIR) Post #A3q79vEjpUaUhRAzpo by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:24:45.327157Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Zephyranthes I would say “empowering” would be described as boosting your personal confidence and aiding personal control of your own life.And yes you could apply the word to any other action or dress.
(DIR) Post #A3q7I99jxfcgBclCqm by Kay@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:24:49.957861Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat It's definitely not empowering, but like make-up and other performative femininity, it can give a sense of safety, from not standing out from all the rest, and that can be mistaken for empowerment.
(DIR) Post #A3q7KXyYeaD9k5fsbg by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T18:18:33.552187Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gnomeshatecheese @Ladyfat Treating women like this is never empowering, it is about control,absolutely nothing else.
(DIR) Post #A3q93ufbDvWF730EmO by fpcgggc@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:43:41.155566Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat I don’t understand what “it can aid a woman or girl” means
(DIR) Post #A3q93v6Bd4moRVRTDk by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:46:05.187132Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fpcgggc the argument goes that if a girl can only access education through use of a hijab it has helped her in that circumstance.
(DIR) Post #A3q956I5VGgJRYZVPE by Help-me-hoagie-man@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:45:47.128081Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat personally, I don’t think it’s ever empowering, but I don’t think we should stop a woman or girl from wearing it if she wants to. I think women and girls should be free to dress however they want. That doesn’t mean dressing a certain way is ‘empowering.’ In fact, I don’t think there’s really any way to dress that is empowering
(DIR) Post #A3q95vOvTbSFxXABe4 by Magnesium@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:36:04.158148Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat Fuck this. Fuck this. FUCK THIS. And anyone who think's I'm culturally insensitive, I don't give a shit. What about World Niqab Day? World Burka Day? Do the MEN get to give hijabs a try?? Are women in Iran allowed a No Hijab Day to see how that feels? I'M FUCKING SICK OF THE GASLIGHTING
(DIR) Post #A3q95vpVskipHzbQ5Q by female_solidarity@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:39:39.401943Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Magnesium @Ladyfat Pretty sure "world hijab day" trending on fb around 2012 was my first moment of questioning mainstream feminism.
(DIR) Post #A3q9DStDMiALqhvTBw by fpcgggc@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:47:17.227221Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat ahhh I see. There’s some nuance here so idk what my answer is though I marked that it is never empowering. One of the managers on my floor is Muslim and she wears a hijab.
(DIR) Post #A3qA0xwWhLMSLi4wwC by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:56:04.018049Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat @fpcgggc http://www.sedaa.org/2019/05/promoting-a-toxic-modesty-culture-does-a-disservice-to-muslim-women/
(DIR) Post #A3qAH3tAMLfRQIBMG0 by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:57:56.583371Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat @fpcgggc “Those who are challenging this are fighting against all the odds. We owe it to these women fighting for women’s liberation in conservative societies. We need to amplify their voices to discard every single symbol of misogyny and patriarchy whether it comes from religion or not.Western Muslim women who are free to make a choice should to stop pandering to this toxic modesty culture and stand in unconditional solidarity with these brave women.” Khadija Khan
(DIR) Post #A3qBSlHbSf2D9BktBQ by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:59:41.803577Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat @fpcgggc https://www.facebook.com/whiteswednesdays/
(DIR) Post #A3qBSlmnafzKhwLno8 by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:02:12.720108Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat @fpcgggc https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/23/women-are-wearing-white-on-wednesday-to-protest-irans-strict-hijab-laws-9286149/
(DIR) Post #A3qBT0LhRiDxsEms9Q by HebrideanHecate@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:01:16.010905Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat @fpcgggc https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-headscarf-protest-women-prison-white-wednesdays-masih-alinejad-a9025431.html
(DIR) Post #A3qCx44iG0EK4Uju8u by macha@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:23:52.801973Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat This is such a fraught issue. I went for option 3, that it is never empowering but is sometimes necessary for a girl/women to avoid more harm and violence.I despair at women from democratic countries who have real choices then choosing the hijab or even worse making their young daughters wear it but I do not blame them as individuals. Each of us has to do the best we can in a hostile world for all girls and women.We need to end the overarching oppression which leads to both hijab wearing as well as girls starving and mutilating themselves to have porn ready, bikini bodies. All cultures and countries are trying to control female bodies and sexuality. All are to blame.
(DIR) Post #A3qCxzDtmWRjJUTXsG by Sherri_Ingrey@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:16:30.791741Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@female_solidarity @Magnesium @Ladyfat
(DIR) Post #A3qEMGUVKd0llyNpsu by Lilitu@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:01:09.855173Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat No. Hijab exists explicitly as a physical cue of objectification, due to a radical belief in the impurity of the female body. Just because some women have Stockholm Syndrome after a lifetime of being groomed into believing they’re dirty if they don’t hide their bodies doesn’t mean they’re actually “choosing.” Choice must exist in the absence of coercion to be a choice.I don’t think there is any reason to regard this as “culturally sensitive.” Misogyny is misogyny and it doesn’t matter where it comes from. I make the exact same argument about women “choosing” to shave or wear make-up in the West (although here it’s about pornification rather than purity). There’s no difference to me, and there shouldn’t be to anyone else. People abroad critique American sexism all the time, as well they should.We need to be united for women no matter who they are, and no matter what politically invested interests want to shame us for defending women at home and abroad.
(DIR) Post #A3qEMH3bE95HWonraS by Sherri_Ingrey@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:30:11.563769Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Lilitu @Ladyfat the Koran also calls for devout Muslim men to dress modestly, they cover their faces with beards. It's all bullshit. And you cannot talk about peer, family, and cultural brainwashing as "empowering".
(DIR) Post #A3qJBQSiQ0TfHcCJCi by Dworkin9to5@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:48:12.084953Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Zephyranthes @Ladyfat I always think of it as: to give the illusion of power or control without challenging or threatening structural inequalities or systems of power.
(DIR) Post #A3qJChGjPupdhKCLzc by Ladyfat@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T21:39:43.814585Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Dworkin9to5 @Zephyranthes that’s a very good definition!
(DIR) Post #A3qOoyO6iVulZAidqi by SpiritKrabs@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T22:06:22.303597Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat The hijab can aid a girl in certain situations, such as avoiding death, physical violence, psychological violence, etc. that is meted out to those who don't wear it. But even so it can't be anything but disempowering.
(DIR) Post #A3qOpDxkoGLDs4Vozg by yishengqingwa666@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T21:52:22.273309Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Ladyfat "My choice"="If I don't comply, men will hurt or kill me"
(DIR) Post #A3r9LJNGoxJ7oSgZjU by bornwithovaries@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:48:37.218963Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Help-me-hoagie-man @Ladyfat I think that women who want to wear it, if any ever do (some say that they do), want to either out of shame or because they feel protected. Both emotion-based responses and they will have to work through those emotions before they can make a different choice. All it will do in ripping the cloth off their heads is traumatize them further.But I'm death on legal hijab requirements. If there's a situation where covering your hair is a sanitary issue, fine, and it applies to both males and females -- chiefly in food service and in medicine. But that's not the case in most situations.
(DIR) Post #A3r9LJkfPy1Sz1dGCW by Help-me-hoagie-man@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T19:52:50.449816Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bornwithovaries @Ladyfat agreed on both fronts. I don’t think it should be outlawed or required, each for different reasons but both related to wanting women to have the most freedom as possible.I wonder if some women just wear it because it’s how they grew up? I can’t pretend to know their thoughts or experience but like is every middle aged woman who wears one, wearing it out of shame? Or because it’s comfortable because she’s used to it?
(DIR) Post #A3r9LKBFp7I2JU4Uds by bornwithovaries@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T20:16:35.782967Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Help-me-hoagie-man @Ladyfat I think those fall under the "feels more protected," like, the reason I cover my ass in public is I've been doing it all my life and it feels protected when it has clothes on it. So yeah, probably.
(DIR) Post #A3r9LKYeQ80NU31B6u by Help-me-hoagie-man@spinster.xyz
2021-02-01T23:20:04.478974Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bornwithovaries @Ladyfat I’ve actually been listening to podcasts about ex-Muslim women all day at work and I kind of do see how ‘choosing’ to wear the hijab is not really a choice for these women and girls... interesting and complicated. I still think it shouldn’t be outlawed but it shouldn’t be celebrated either.