Post A3VaeFQa8pLSMMN1RA by hurtado@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by hurtado@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #A3VZq17R4DkHVDSlGK by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T21:36:51Z
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Transhumanism is so far from the present day Overton window that it's literally unthinkable for most people.Transhumanist proponents don't get taken seriously, which is both a blessing and a curse.However, as technology improves, moving the Overton window towards transhumanism, it'll go from wacky sci-fi concept, to radical viewpoint, to ho-hum everyday thing.That bump where it's considered radical could be a real mess though.
(DIR) Post #A3VadzznW80WUwiv6e by unicornfarts@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T21:45:29Z
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@urusan We already have the technology to make this happen and in some cases, it has already begun! #crispr As we don't have a world-government, the ethics of who should decide and by how much we can change ourselves is a hotly debated topic. I think what will happen is an unstoppable wave of companies promoting services to enable transhumanism, and lone biohackers modifying themselves as they see fit. Technology is far outpacing legislation.
(DIR) Post #A3VaeFQa8pLSMMN1RA by hurtado@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T21:45:48Z
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@urusan In South America we're still struggling with tattoos. Transhumanism is going to take a while.
(DIR) Post #A3VauZWFD5BfIynplQ by sotneStatue@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T21:48:55Z
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@urusan didn't even know that was a thing, looks cool af
(DIR) Post #A3VazedZblDWcvedQ8 by Qincel@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-22T21:49:39.108584Z
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@urusan The thoroughbreed (CHAD) will win out against the gmo modified transhuman.
(DIR) Post #A3Vda8Xa6aXXhhNLUG by sotolf@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T22:18:46Z
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@urusan well technically lenses and even phones and most technology can be counted as transhumanism or? Or did I misunderstand the term?
(DIR) Post #A3VebzQN4Q8nxnRzOa by wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T22:30:23Z
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@Qincel @urusan You mean *homo sapiens caballus*?
(DIR) Post #A3VgdaIpdu0eXOoQFc by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T22:53:04Z
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@sotolf Transhumanism is using technology to improve the human brain and/or body. So it's not just tool use.It's more like GMOs or cybernetic implants.The "trans" is because it's a transition stage between fully human and something new, a posthuman species. Posthumanity would be humanity's childern.Also, humans, transhumans, and posthumans may all coexist at some point, so it's not like humanity has to be wiped out by this transition.
(DIR) Post #A3VgyNjJaE5vco7GzI by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T22:56:48Z
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@Qincel I dunno, computer CHAD is the most likely candidate to outpace the gmo transhuman.
(DIR) Post #A3Vhg7G0Bq4PHFG9om by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T23:04:32Z
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@hurtado Well, often these emerging technologies leapfrog established technologies when the incumbent technology is weak in a region.In particular, these technologies applied to plants and animals will probably make it easy to produce complex products even in a low infrastructure environment.For instance, we might be able to grow computers from computer plants rather than using a high energy, high chemical purity, clean-room requiring foundry.
(DIR) Post #A3VhprK8HiGCkxpz72 by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T23:06:27Z
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@unicornfarts Yup, I think this is the next big wave of technological development, much like how computing was the last huge wave.
(DIR) Post #A3VkYUEz9ZJy6aq06i by sotolf@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T23:36:27Z
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@urusan is using prescription lenses really using a tool?
(DIR) Post #A3Vlis3pXt5ape8SoK by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T23:50:03Z
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@sotolf I mean, admittedly this stuff is all very blurry.One article I read pointed out that humanity has had cooking technology long enough that we've evolved to require cooked food.Look up "raw diet" if you want to know more about what happens if you don't cook any of your food, but basically it's a good way to lose weight and also nutritionally deficient.The article used this fact to justify that we are all cyborgs, since our kitchens are part of our gut.
(DIR) Post #A3VmmYLgsMt2oDoDz6 by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T00:01:55Z
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@sotolf However, when we're talking about the definition of a word, we usually want to know how it's actually used in practice.Generally speaking, we wouldn't call someone with glasses a cyborg or a transhuman. Similarly, since they're removable, we still wouldn't normally apply these terms to contacts.The case is even stronger for "transhuman" than cyborg, because:1. You are still clearly 100% human2. The contacts repair a deficiency in vision, rather than improve vision
(DIR) Post #A3VmtlvcmmEKx73jYO by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T00:03:14Z
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@sotolf Also, regardless of the definitions of cyborg and transhuman, contact lenses are a tool.
(DIR) Post #A3VnGgJ7qmlgBCyYKW by hurtado@fosstodon.org
2021-01-22T22:51:40Z
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@sotolf @urusan You just made the laser eye surgery I had years ago sound way cooler.
(DIR) Post #A3VnGglU9LS9bAFCXA by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T00:07:21Z
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@hurtado @sotolf Does laser eye surgery make you a cyborg?If the laser eye surgery improves your vision beyond your original best, does that make you a transhuman? Or does it have to improve your vision beyond the best natural human performance?
(DIR) Post #A3WeJKjdo7PfiJWmWG by hurtado@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T10:01:43Z
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@urusan @sotolf I think you'd need some kind of prosthetic aid, like surgically inserted lens or a pacemaker, in order to consider the transhuman side, instead of a mere operation. Returning a person to their original abilities would suffice, imo.
(DIR) Post #A3X9MjxJajt3Nj1njk by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T15:49:42Z
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@hurtado @sotolf You can definitely be a transhuman (or even a posthuman) without being a cyborg with implants.In another thread, I talked extensively about how near-ish future biotechnology will allow us to radically transform our human biology, with the concrete example being furries being able to become furries in reality.This bio-transformation would likely just require a shot or series of shots. Perhaps some supportive work similar to orthodontics, not even surgery.
(DIR) Post #A3X9X8GO4TnRfMu7sG by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T15:51:35Z
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@hurtado @sotolf While the furry example is not necessarily an enhancement, those desiring that alteration will probably want animal-mimicking enhancements like a cat's night vision or vastly better hearing, or the much improved smell sense of dogs.They'll also be willing to undergo morphological changes that support those improved senses, as having swiveling cat-like ears popping out the top of their head or a snout are considered pluses.Nature already has a proven recipe.
(DIR) Post #A3XALiMs6qL87c3aMq by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T16:00:43Z
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@hurtado @sotolf While it would take more bioengineering development work, we can probably figure out many biological enhancements that don't change the human look.For instance, we could eliminate the human blind spot through some straightforward changes to the eye, and use the extra space to add some additional visual resolution while we're at it.A very simple hack would be to have our hearing regenerate if it becomes damaged.
(DIR) Post #A3XAzj3UyM0fpz4e7U by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T16:07:46Z
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@hurtado @sotolf All this kind of stuff leads to a human becoming transhuman. They are still more or less human, but also different in substantive ways from a baseline human.Even the heavily transformed furry, who doesn't look human externally, may still be homo sapiens, if they didn't change their human genes, and are thus still the same species.Cybernetics is just another route, merging with machines rather than improving one's biology.
(DIR) Post #A3XBxoRk3djRvs46ZE by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T16:18:48Z
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@hurtado @sotolf At some point though, those undergoing substantial transformation will leave being part of the human species behind entirely, and become posthuman.We say posthuman rather than "another species" because they are our children (or even a substantially future version of us), with some kind of direct lineage to us humans.
(DIR) Post #A3XC1EUveiFRb9Bdy4 by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T16:19:26Z
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@hurtado @sotolf If you think about it, as long as we don't self-destruct, then posthumanity is inevitable, as evolutionary pressures will eventually turn us into one or more different species. Technology just vastly accelerates that natural process.
(DIR) Post #A3XRRDRlgUVjBEYXQ0 by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-01-23T19:12:13.621217Z
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@urusan It's interesting you mention Evolutionary Pressures. I've thought that softening or breaking them down to some degree by trying to build a tendency to cooperation would be necessary to avoid what we might call the Zero Slack catastrophe. Where people end up having to compete so hard for resource access and continued existence that they have zero slack left for personal development and exploration.(I guess your idea of everyone becoming a star might provide some solution, if communication takes SO LONG people simply don't care about anything more than a few AUs away.)@hurtado @sotolf
(DIR) Post #A3XTFuDV2beOGIcIiW by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T19:32:30Z
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@Azure @hurtado @sotolf Zero slack (and even negative slack) situations are actually pretty normal in nature.They're hardly world-ending catastrophes, though they are brutal for those living through them.For instance, I recently learned that some tree species deliberately have a cycle of outputting an overwhelming number of seeds every N years (with the year this happens being called a mast year). This is so that the animals eating their seeds can't eat them all.
(DIR) Post #A3XTMVGqBkLMv6KFCy by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T19:33:46Z
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@Azure @hurtado @sotolf It can't do the high seed production thing all the time, otherwise the animals that eat the seeds would just become more numerous and eat all the seeds, so it has to keep seed levels low normally.However, this reproductive strategy has the brutal side effect of causing regular starve-offs of seed eating animals after each mast year.They were able to survive and reproduce more on the mast year, so their populations are simply too high next year.
(DIR) Post #A3XTfFceamERtFT4XA by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-01-23T19:37:10.415346Z
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@urusan Well, yes. But at least for me the point of trying to plan ahead for transhumanism rather than just let it happen is because I don't like the unithinking demiurge of hill-climbing optimization. Things like the epigenetics of stress might improve survival in some situations but they aren't something you'd wish on anyone you cared about.At least, nonzero slack seems like a highly desired outcome we might want to encourage.@hurtado @sotolf
(DIR) Post #A3XTjstwUpakrylQpM by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-01-23T19:38:01.222030Z
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@urusan (Learning about the epigenetics of stress in mice actually did a lot to make me think there's a moral imperative to seriously look at ecosystems and how to improve them for nonhuman inhabitants, too.)@hurtado @sotolf
(DIR) Post #A3XU3ooLPhWVyXePhY by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T19:41:31Z
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@Azure @hurtado @sotolf True, we would hope that we can do better than nature and not have these kinds of terrible situations, for us or the rest of Terragen life.That said, we do need to be aware that we are still animals and still follow the same rules of nature, a fact we ignore at our peril.In fact, recent research into this area has found that selective pressure on humans is actually much higher/faster than expected.
(DIR) Post #A3XUTUTpcr3ORwIVkm by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-01-23T19:46:15.479966Z
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@urusan That makes sense just because differing populations have such drastically differing birth rates.@hurtado @sotolf
(DIR) Post #A3XUU5I4lWdQcC594C by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T19:46:20Z
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@Azure @hurtado @sotolf I mainly bring it up because many people think we're "done" evolving, or that we've managed to halt evolution through social altruism, when this really isn't the case.Of course, transhumanism is going to come in and change things on an unbelievably fast time scale, but if that weren't the case then eventually we'd evolve into something different.
(DIR) Post #A3XksvLQToxMH4W0zQ by urusan@fosstodon.org
2021-01-23T22:50:07Z
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@Azure @hurtado @sotolf I was thinking about your Zero Slack catastrophe idea some more, and while it's still true that these situations happen frequently in nature, this situation is also very dangerous for humankind right now.It's very bad for innovation and problem solving, which we need right now as we transition from having negligible impact on our planet to having to actively manage our environment. It could have a much more catastrophic effect.
(DIR) Post #A3Xl5byxmPbrzJ3gjw by Azure@tailswish.industries
2021-01-23T22:52:25.807026Z
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@urusan That's one reason I want an economic system that can distribute a lot more slack a lot more equitably. A lot of people who could be contributing a lot toward solving problems and enjoying it are instead stuck being ground down at necessity level.@hurtado @sotolf