Post A39PvLGSb1ONs9RNnE by yaaps@banana.dog
(DIR) More posts by yaaps@banana.dog
(DIR) Post #A38suLgqEQPuPnhOpk by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-11T22:43:27Z
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My, there sure were a LOT of large American companies, including heath insurers, contributing heavily to Republicans to, eg, prevent decent healthcare from happening, who are now suddenly getting cold feet about being caught supporting actual crimes and not just generalised oppression of everyone below CEO level.
(DIR) Post #A38suM74etOtj9yLiq by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-11T22:47:35Z
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I know that it was ruled by American courts long ago that corporate money-seeking machines are people, and money is speech, and "people" giving "speech" to politicians is just darn good business as well as good citizenship, and it's not good form to criticize this honourable civic behaviour and call it actual bribery and corruption, except when it crosses a line, butI still wish American politics did not run on the basis that politicians are openly for sale to the highest bidder.
(DIR) Post #A38suMgsVm2ZWCiwWu by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-11T22:51:05Z
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At some point in the last 20 years even the press reporting on US politics switched to saying the quiet part out loud: from "what do the voters think" to "what do the Large Donors think". And nobody seemed to comment on this change in language and emphasis or think it was at all extraordinary in the supposed birthplace of democracy.It would be maybe healthy for that emphasis on The Donor Class to become extraordinary and "not quite nice to admit in public" again.
(DIR) Post #A38t1G2xbyQ6wLL6jQ by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-01-11T22:53:14.621764Z
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@natecull they pay for whoever gets them what they want.
(DIR) Post #A38t1uGq3nHxgy8kuu by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-11T22:53:23.347138Z
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@natecull That happened because Leftists ran their own political organizations theoretically dedicated to a variety of topics but secretly there only to promote the current Leftist candidate.You cheat, you get a bad response.
(DIR) Post #A38t7ik1q2XlfkZ9Oa by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-01-11T22:54:25.698903Z
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@natecull be wary of lionizing the dems over republicans. covid relief was bipartisan but shumer+pelosi kept showing up to spike and pork it.pelosi was railed about that by a journalist just earlier.they are both frauds.
(DIR) Post #A39DVWNbRsMxMmhdyq by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-11T23:54:03Z
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@natecull I'm pretty sure we're headed into another party realignment like that following the Civil Rights Bill, but in reverse. The DNC will welcome moderate Republicans ("fiscal" conservatives) in a bid to stave off Progressives. With enough money, the new Democratic Party can stave off left wing and right wing populism for quite some time, at least nationally
(DIR) Post #A39DVWdCVsqW9A06IC by jauntywunderkind420@cybre.space
2021-01-12T00:38:17Z
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@yaaps @natecull is it really a realignment when all it does is resist change? new politician bedfellows yes but staving off change just the same, allowing & permitting ongoing whatever this all is.
(DIR) Post #A39DVWwLMi9t6WxO88 by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T02:38:19Z
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@jauntywunderkind420 @natecull Understand that I see liberalism and facism as fundamentally the same philosophy, which is to say that it is one of "the greatest good for the fewest number that includes me," that they differ only in the means by which they apply violence, and that, by the measure of MLK that "No man is free until all are free," there is no chance of freedom in our lifetime, nor as long as public discourse remains bound to this false dichotomyI see the coming realignment of the US political parties as a temporary halt in the shift of the Overton Window, with expanded safety nets and a decline in opposition to federal protection of a number of human rights, and the forced break up of monopolies that could jump the gap to threaten state power, but a focus on reform and participation rather than abolitionSo, yes, no substantial change. Just a temporary mitigation to stabilize government and to prepare against the social effects of climate change and automation. I didn't want to put it quite so bluntly, but there it is
(DIR) Post #A39DVXCIPOv1u0Q7zk by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T02:40:15Z
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@yaaps @jauntywunderkind420 "Understand that I see liberalism and facism as fundamentally the same philosophy"You lost me right there bucko
(DIR) Post #A39GUOoAPi8bSNHhi4 by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T03:10:15Z
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@natecull @jauntywunderkind420 Sorry. Liberalism may include a buffer population and I know that there are a fair share of true believers, but there's been more than enough time since the French Political Enlightenment and the American Revolution for people to be justifiably skeptical about the institutional ability, and the individual motivation, of liberals to achieve liberation. That's where I standNow... I predict neoliberal Democrats own the US federal government for the next 20 years. Coal is dead and Trump has given away enough drilling permits that Biden can regulate the fuck out of fossil fuels with very little economic impact. The radical left isn't inclined to stand in the way of even partial liberation, if such exists, and we're ill-equipped to do so at the moment. Racism and religious conservatism are discredited. This is the time for liberals to show what they really want to accomplish
(DIR) Post #A39K2RKRqdnUyzJ70i by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T03:10:44Z
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@natecull @jauntywunderkind420 Also the Beatles said that would happen
(DIR) Post #A39K2S3p7w5rFiXLjk by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T03:14:00Z
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@yaaps @jauntywunderkind420 A polite reminder that the "radical left" created Soviet Russia and Maoist China, regimes which presided over the deaths of millions.I'll take liberalism over the radical left, thanks.
(DIR) Post #A39K2SHIJqrvvUq6jY by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T03:17:08Z
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@yaaps @jauntywunderkind420 Also, "liberalism" and "neoliberalism" are NOT the same thing.Neoliberalism is the radical economic wing of 20th century conservatism, which is directly opposed to some of the core ideas of liberalism - at least the liberalism that reigned from 1932 to 1980.
(DIR) Post #A39K2SThZinGXye14a by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T03:33:15Z
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@natecull The distintions between contemporary leftism and the statist revolutions of the early 20th century are at least as broad as those to be made between liberalism and neoliberalism, so I'll let you choose the granularity you want to exercise as long as you do so consistentlyDon't play the death count card, though. There's no way to slice it where the US comes out untarnished in that contest and we're both too good to trade in body counts to win an argument on the internet
(DIR) Post #A39K2Sta1VUfqEkgPQ by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T03:36:29Z
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@yaaps I will play the death count card, though. It's *very large* for both Russia and Communist China.Tens to hundreds of millions.Yes, we need a better kind of politics than what we have as the status quo, with its uneasy tension between capitalism and democracy.But the Marxist history of the romantic "Left" is stained neck-deep in blood. It needs to reckon with this and swear never to repeat this, and understand HOW not to repeat this. Since 1989, I have not seen this happening.
(DIR) Post #A39K2TEUlkDwt6XO0e by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T03:40:55Z
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@yaaps This is why, although I'm no fan of capitalism as currently constructed, I don't consider myself a "leftist" either.I am not inspired by either the French or Russian or Chinese revolutions. Neither am I inspired by the post-Marxist postmodernisms that constitute the other half of the modern Left.Whatever the answer for future politics is, I don't see much of it at all in "Leftist" history, or the political traditions that look back to there. I see mostly a horror and a warning.
(DIR) Post #A39K2TcbK7VS5rodaC by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T03:46:02Z
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@yaaps Not that it's really a choice *between* "the left" and "the right", because both were terrible and caused mass casualties.We have to be better than *both* of these traditions, and that means, somehow, working out a path to the future that doesn't glorify civil violence and the authoritarian structures of war.Certainly no more guillotine emojis. If you wouldn't want to see it on the Capitol steps, maybe don't put it on Twitter, even ironically. Not in a year like this.
(DIR) Post #A39Pv6cx17TCTYqdGa by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T03:56:18Z
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@natecull The biggest difference between Marx and Lenin is that Marx was certain that the bourgeoisie would not surrender power while they were, while Lenin asserted that they would surrender if they were afraid for their lives. How are we supposed to scare the bougie into a bloodless surrender if we promise not to kill them?But look at the evidence... all the guillotines are emojis and effigies. Who's holding guns and who's holding leaf blowers? The challenge for people like me the next four years is to keep people committed to community gardens and abolishing police when UBI and police reform happen, because UBI will go away when power doesn't feel threatened and police reform will mean more money for militarization when people stop looking
(DIR) Post #A39Pv9aE1i4Xdyazw0 by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:03:56Z
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@yaaps "How are we supposed to scare the bougie into a bloodless surrender if we promise not to kill them?"Okay, so you're reinforcing that you are personally fine with mass murder of millions to billions of your fellow global citizens. Good to know.I won't be joining your political program, thanks.
(DIR) Post #A39PvAprN4AlWkuzwW by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:05:08Z
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@yaaps But the answer to your question is:You are NOT SUPPOSED to "SCARE" anyone into joining your political ideals.That's called terrorism.Don't do that.Don't try to build a revolution or a country on that.You will fail. It has been tried. It always, always fails. Government by fear is the route to disaster.
(DIR) Post #A39PvD9mjxIcj8FwHI by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:07:37Z
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@yaaps Instead, work out how you can CONVINCE and INSPIRE people to change their mind.That idea is what's at the core of "liberalism". Not often respected, no, but that's the core there.So if you try to attack and throw away even that core of "liberalism", the idea that there can be rational debate that changes minds, and go for violence and terror instead, well the ground opens beneath movements that try that, and there's a gulf of blood miles wide underneath.
(DIR) Post #A39PvGKAxmOSYE8mOG by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-01-12T04:15:35Z
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@natecull The following is not an argument for or against any of the things you are saying about specific political ideologies, but I wanted to mention something regarding convincing and inspiring people:It is possible to convince and inspire people to agree to something using means that are harmful and nonconsensual, such as propaganda and marketing, but where the subject believes they are choosing to do something of their own accord. I think we are currently living in an age that thrives on that nonconsensual coercive logic of "consensus" building, and it goes back at least to post WWI and the rise of the Nazis, but has really come into its own in the digital age.@yaaps
(DIR) Post #A39PvIPDE1bv0QVpWC by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:18:51Z
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@vortex_egg @yaaps This is also a huge problem, yes. So it's not just "violence vs not actual violence" but also... good faith vs bad faith? Subtle strategies of abuse in so many different forms, abuse powering both capitalism and also politics.And yes, the Kennedy-Johnson Democrats in the 1960s oversaw some megascale war crimes.I don't know how we grow beyond the propaganda and abuse spiral our civilisation is in right now, but we're going to have to, somehow.
(DIR) Post #A39PvLGSb1ONs9RNnE by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T04:25:51Z
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@natecull @vortex_egg I think we have to call it out. Own up to it. Make reparations. That's what I don't believe liberal institutions are capable of and that's what suburban liberals secretly dreadThat has to come from the place of power. Do the right thing now while there's no credible threat and don't wait for people to be angry *and* organized
(DIR) Post #A39PvMMsUe7VILS1R2 by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:28:14Z
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@yaaps @vortex_egg I do think that our existing liberal post-WWI *institutions* need to be almost completely rebuilt. I don't have much faith in institutions at the best of times, and the ones we now have seem to be no longer fit for purpose and are failing repeatedly in the face of global extinction-level crises.But I'm also worried about Silicon Valley's cult of "disruption" and just how devastating that could be, at scale, if it gets its wish and gets to reinvent government.
(DIR) Post #A39PvOmTWRmemJRUbw by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:29:57Z
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@yaaps @vortex_egg In some ways here in 2021, it's like 1981 but with the libertarians who backed Reagan and hoped for an instant revolution now geared up and moneyed up and actually able to do what they only dreamed of then.They also see "liberalism" as something to be destroyed. What they'd replace it with though... scares me more.
(DIR) Post #A39PvRtJxS2gQPfVCK by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:31:17Z
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@yaaps @vortex_egg Like Jeff Bezos being richest man in the world scared me but suddenly Elon Fricken MUSK? I... don't want that guy to have that kind of power. And I say that as a fellow Gen-Xer.
(DIR) Post #A39PvSiMtesKyjYGlU by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:35:24Z
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@yaaps @vortex_egg Musk is like Trump except a few decades younger and with actual rockets.And I'm sure he's just fine with liberalism vanishing and being replaced by some kind of cyber-anarcho-libertarian-capitalism, with plenty of drugs and tech, maybe powered by Bitcoin. As long as he gets to be God-Emperor for life. Voting is part of the old liberal order and it would be boring to him.I can see more blood coming from that kind of transition than several world wars.
(DIR) Post #A39PvVGpOVd0uBgokq by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T04:59:00Z
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@natecull @vortex_egg Musk's vision for the colonization of Mars is the re-invention of indentured servitude, and he's just the sort of person who'd think he could put down a labor uprising by turning off oxygen to the carrot farm (when, in fact, that's where the oxygen comes from)The thing is that force is always the first thought for the colonizer. This limits people's options and commodifies interactions. It by-passes complex motivations and consent. You control the situation, you control the other, you "win"The failure of past communism, and the struggle of the present, is to decolonize our thinking. To accept that force is the last resort rather than something to seize once it is in reach. It isn't in reach for us, and as much time as I spend on Masto putting down white anarchists' shit, I'm gladBut there's a clock
(DIR) Post #A39eyMLYWm8xPTilPc by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2021-01-12T07:50:32Z
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@natecull a quick reminder that democracy existed in Greece 2000 years before USA.
(DIR) Post #A39qYtw4DmaLVMQSm0 by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-11T22:56:44Z
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@icedquinn The Dems certainly do care as much about their Large Donors as the Republicans do, and the "center-left press" doesn't seem to have noticed anything at all odd-smelling about this situation in the last 20 years. It's just "well this politician is great because they've fund-raised X million dollars this round!" as if Senators were San Francisco startups competing for VCs.
(DIR) Post #A39qYuWE3LVbJVLL8K by nemeciii@mastodon.technology
2021-01-12T09:58:12Z
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@natecull @icedquinn It would be nice if there were some upper limits on campaign funding to enable more even and open playing field where not only millionaires can afford to play the political chess.Then again even those limits should be hardened where they exist.Of course achieving this when all the legislators benefit from current situation is likely a pipe dream just like limiting corporate lobbying.https://www.dw.com/en/french-elections-who-finances-the-candidates/a-38704682
(DIR) Post #A39qYumt3Opu9B8e6S by icedquinn@blob.cat
2021-01-12T10:00:25.358012Z
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@nemeciii @natecull they did put in limits the problem is rich people are gonna loophole everything.when you have people like soros who can afford to bankroll 200 candidates with maximum donations and then turn around and toss money in to a superpac, well.
(DIR) Post #A3AXEA2pQfUNPiwf3I by machado@refactorcamp.org
2021-01-12T17:58:26Z
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@wolf480pl @natecull Also, a quick reminder that democratic periods in ancient Greece where prone to stuff like civil rights and voting power distribute according to tax brackets, and overall historically notable ancient Greeks mostly look down upon democracy, because they where mostly middle or upper class and afraid of empowering the lower classes.
(DIR) Post #A3AaX0doulCFc9vWue by machado@refactorcamp.org
2021-01-12T18:01:30Z
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@wolf480pl @natecull Also, the Roman Republic was undone by the kind of class divide and concentration of wealth that is happening in the US, with the lower classes being enticed into military service for financial reasons, and then joining up with populist leaders for coups.And the whole thing about voting based on class is to measure how many heavy infantrymen and cavalry supported each candidate in a sort of hyper-ritualized civil war.
(DIR) Post #A3AaX1hOyveitYbu8O by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2021-01-12T18:35:28Z
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@machado @natecull IOW, we're witnessing an extremely slow and painful fall of an empire?
(DIR) Post #A3Aejn6YxAvlDHimOW by machado@refactorcamp.org
2021-01-12T19:22:36Z
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@wolf480pl @natecull There are many, many paralels to both the end of the roman republic and the fall of the western empire.The most valuable part of a system of elected representatives, peaceful transitions of power, has been lost.Following the trends, it will be an unexciting decay into blood, horror and feudalism, with moments of hope that lead to more blood, horror and feudalism.
(DIR) Post #A3Ag2rWCrrnwMGNE9I by amerika@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T19:37:19.148092Z
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@machado @wolf480pl @natecull Let's hope for feudalismSomeone needs to school these fucking proles
(DIR) Post #A3AmL1oLwDavDYuHqa by vortex_egg@hackers.town
2021-01-12T04:21:07Z
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@natecull I've been focusing on the role of consent in conflict resolution and consensus building, especially the ideas that come out of nonviolent communication. I think we have not yet seen the political and social order that respects everyone's fundamental humanity, and especially in the face of not agreeing with each other's fundamental beliefs about reality. I haven't figured it out yet.@yaaps
(DIR) Post #A3AmL23b1Xmtyq2Sbg by natecull@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:25:32Z
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@vortex_egg @yaaps I used to think that a minimal government would be best, because then there's less for people who fundamentally disagree to fight over... and I guess the 1990s Internet and then the Open Source movement sold me on that idea of minimal core and "pushing policy to the edge"... but since then I've been repeatedly bludgeoned by the reality of trillion-dollar capitalism and how devastating that is in the absence of government restraint.I don't know how to fix this.
(DIR) Post #A3AmL2N5r3NqxJA1zs by cjd@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T04:59:01Z
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@natecullPromise of minimal govt in my mind is allowing local government to handle the complex aspects. People are bad at making good policy but they are good at identifying the results of good policy. Vote with your feet is expensive but it works. Democracy seems to fall down to "best memes win" but everything else ends up in Rules For Rulers hell so it still seems to be best thing going..@vortex_egg @yaaps
(DIR) Post #A3AmL2rw0O3OUxaf4K by yaaps@banana.dog
2021-01-12T05:01:13Z
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@cjd @natecull @vortex_egg You *usually* want local decisions, local accountability. Except on human rights and mega-corps... and those are our problem areas right now
(DIR) Post #A3AmL3OY388q86qhu4 by cjd@mastodon.social
2021-01-12T05:07:50Z
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@yaapsYup, in fact the fediverse is an interesting experiment. Each instance is a dictatorship but people can move from one to another (would be better is it was easier but I digress). I think the best possible world would be something like a universe is infinite dictatorships where moving from one to another is zero effort.Unfortunately in the real world, dictators simply use their power to prevent their subjects leaving which creates the worst possible world.@natecull @vortex_egg
(DIR) Post #A3AmL3hgtxSD5Tnzk0 by dazinism@social.coop
2021-01-12T05:36:45Z
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@cjdWhy give all the power to one person. People can and do make effective agreements and even happily live alongside each other.Learning/teaching the skills to do that effectively on a societal level would take some efforts. But a load of efforts go into teaching kids how to obey authority and knuckle down and work when they are told. @yaaps @natecull @vortex_egg
(DIR) Post #A3AnNys9Q8PCvUegM4 by amaranthus@freespeechextremist.com
2021-01-12T20:59:34.183420Z
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@cjd @natecull @vortex_egg @yaaps "People are bad at making good policy but they are good at identifying the results of good policy. " I don't think so. People often fail to understand how bad policy leads to bad outcomes, and this is particularly true in the economic realm. Very few people understand, for instance, how tariffs on steel have hurt the automotive industry and they can be sold over and over on the same protectionist argument even as the very industry it's intended to protect is rusting away before their eyes.