Post A06OTjV4dcNSbAlVUu by Mafalda@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by Mafalda@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #A06Icgtb5iXXP07lBo by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:19:43.051959Z
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What are some of the more ridiculous things you’ve seen labelled “empowering” for women and girls?
(DIR) Post #A06JQ9pkI0ohLCuUUa by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:28:39.079875Z
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The Ngrams are actually showing less of a sharp incline than I’d imagined, but it looks like we started calling everything “empowering” in the late ‘80s
(DIR) Post #A06K9VMD70257uibrM by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:34:16.795110Z
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@Nora dressing in really revealing clothing at work when you work in a male dominated industry, having sex with random men just to have something to talk about and being open about that, “exploring your sexuality” by dating a guy that wears nail polish, spending so much time performing emotional labor for your sugar daddy that you get behind on schoolwork, and regularly getting black out drunk. These are things that women I know have done that they said they found empowering, because the liberal feminist mindset really does directly effect women’s lives, and what they think about themselves.
(DIR) Post #A06KOek6V25AZw7Ry4 by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:39:35.493079Z
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@lezpaulguitars Right- these are perfect examples of how “empowering” is used to overcompensate when glossing over obviously awful experiences for women, things that are actively detrimental to our liberation.
(DIR) Post #A06KP3VQQkCBNeRa3k by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:35:06.328649Z
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@Nora right around when real feminism started falling out of favor, makes sense
(DIR) Post #A06KPe7yGuQ2xcks8e by feralfeminist@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:37:13.873604Z
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@Nora Pole-dancing lessons.
(DIR) Post #A06KRqqJy2hgyYYD9E by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:40:09.461374Z
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@feralfeminist Ha, yes. Sigh…
(DIR) Post #A06KdzF8YrNaVHweES by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:42:19.763818Z
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Gimme links if you have them- I’ve been thinking about the brouhaha around that Cardi B video etc. and how the culture industry repeatedly trots out the same “but is it empowering”? conversation whenever women do anything…
(DIR) Post #A06L1khQHoEiLZVXKC by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:46:39.390650Z
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Another question: tell me about culture- film, TV, art, music etc.- as distinct from politics- that you feel you did actually experience as “empowering” in some way.(I’ll probably ask these again tomorrow because all of Europe is/should be asleep)
(DIR) Post #A06LKcmrvZmnJH3PFY by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:44:46.145423Z
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@Nora its so bad that it was noticeable when I got to college that the conservative Christian girls that weren’t hellbent on rebelling against their families and being what society considers “cool” these days actually faired far better than the rest. Having a controlling, long term Christian boyfriend and being a “prude” on average doesn’t seem as scarring as the shit the other girls put themselves through to feel like they were having the college experience.
(DIR) Post #A06LKczdA7zhwr1b8q by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:50:03.951490Z
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@lezpaulguitars Sigh, that is so sad, but understandable. Climbing out of the mire of libfeminism, surviving as a woman in a culture that damages us so badly while calling it liberating, pulling the wool from your eyes is so much damn work.
(DIR) Post #A06LOKWrkjeBqFKsEq by Mafalda@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:49:57.311482Z
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@lezpaulguitars @Nora to be honest if the choice is random exploitative sexual encounters that you can’t allow yourself to question because it’s sex negative vs being a “prude” and not having sex in college…I think the latter is healthier. I work at a college and these guys treat the girls like trash to be fucked and tossed away, and the girls are supposed to be happy with that. It’s gross.
(DIR) Post #A06OIgkeW8p8t7mmB6 by NotHylia@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T00:16:11.256546Z
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@lezpaulguitars @Nora On Spinster sometime in the recent weeks someone pointed out how the feminist buzzword went from “liberation” to “empowerment”. Also pointed out by the women here is that “empowerment” is a term used in therapy, meant to give people skills to cope with the challenging, often hostile world. Its really like the 3rd wave sensed the disdain of men and gave up on freeing women, telling us to figure out how to get comfortable being exploited instead.
(DIR) Post #A06OIi7NR8az7tQREm by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T00:23:18.668519Z
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@NotHylia @lezpaulguitars RIGHT- there is some kind of implicit resignation behind how that word is used now. I think when it started to be used to advertise fucking sportswear and make-up and consumer products in general- things that are supposed to give us a vague feeling of empowerment without actually changing our material situation, it felt like a total corporate capture of the concept. Empowerment is now a fuzzy feeling we can enjoy, not any kind of liberation or change of status.
(DIR) Post #A06OTjV4dcNSbAlVUu by Mafalda@spinster.xyz
2020-10-12T23:45:32.006758Z
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@lezpaulguitars @Nora Just a few days ago another mom said she thought college girls should embrace the sugar daddy life and take men for all they can get. No thought to the risk to them physically, the potential for doxxing, explicit photos, manipulation, financial fraud…
(DIR) Post #A06OTjm5cLzLRwj61I by jonimitchell@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T00:20:02.695098Z
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@Mafalda @lezpaulguitars @Nora Last year my little sister had a friend (around 17 years old, maybe 18) who had a sugar daddy that she sent pictures to in exchange for money to buy nice clothes and makeup. (Not even necessities…this was a girl from a well-off but neglectful family who was sold on the idea that having a sugar daddy would be an easy way to make extra spending money.) It’s so awful. I knew another girl in high school who had to take a couple of weeks off of school because her ex-boyfriend leaked nude pictures of her. There’s not enough protection for teenage girls.
(DIR) Post #A06OTjvf2le1vdCjwG by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T00:25:19.563488Z
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@jonimitchell @Mafalda @lezpaulguitars That is so heartbreaking. I can’t imagine being a young girl now, and all the complicated pressures that come from being so exposed to social media and the trauma something like that could elicit. It’s such a mess.
(DIR) Post #A07G7UyfLbhIi9SBRQ by the_trunchbull@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T01:59:42.060212Z
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@Nora While I was deprogramming from the gender cult, I spent a whole year reading only books written by women, and watching no tv/movies at all. (It started as me trying to read more female authors and then taking things to extremes, as I tend to do.) It completely changed my outlook on culture. I don’t think I’ll ever find film “empowering” again, because once you’ve gotten used to seeing the world without any male input whatsoever it becomes obvious how male-dominated our visual culture is. Even films directed by women seem inextricable from the male gaze sometimes (and the involvement of male studio heads, male crewmen, male actors, male writers …).I still love film, but I don’t think I believe in feminist film anymore. And I don’t remember the last time I read a male author outside of my academic work.
(DIR) Post #A07G7VRNcqfM9Ct7CK by iMeMiss@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T03:10:46.598435Z
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@the_trunchbull @Nora You might like “Portrait of a Lady on Fire”. I recommended it here on Spinster a few months back. It’s an excellent film. Also, there really aren’t any men in it—a few in the background here and there, but honestly, I don’t remember any of them having lines. It’s female focused. The story was great, the cinematography was great, the actresses were great….you get the idea :blobjoy: It’s on Hulu
(DIR) Post #A07G7VlwOP73AyVXFI by the_trunchbull@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T03:43:34.739168Z
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@iMeMiss @Nora I do like that one! But I still couldn’t read it as “empowering.” Stylistically it was incredibly well done and original, but plot-wise it went the way a lot of lesbian films go, and I found it kind of unsatisfying. And they’re both so pretty, of course … I don’t know. Maybe I’m a weird extremist, but we’ve been seen and not heard for so long, I just want to be heard and not seen for a while. I don’t know if there’s any way around that in film. Or a better way of portraying subjectivity. All visual media feels objectifying to me in some sense. Maybe I’m just overly sensitive about porn culture.
(DIR) Post #A07G7W1BTjJ1wFdi0O by Eleutheromaniac@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T04:23:59.508400Z
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@the_trunchbull @iMeMiss @Nora Not going to lie, I have massive issues with the word empowering. Unless it actually confers social or economic power to those without it, it’s not actually empowering and I detest the way it gets thrown around these days. It’s become borderline meaningless to the point that empowerment seems to basically mean “it feels nice”. Gives me actual rage. Anyway.I can’t even remember the last time I saw anything genuinely empowering. Actually, scratch that. Dominique Christina’s period poem gave me chills and catapulted me into radical feminism.But the most irritating thing recently was that whole #girlboss thing that seemed to do the rounds. Honestly it’s so superficial and conformist it made me want to puke.
(DIR) Post #A07G7WMoBKbT1Jkyi8 by the_trunchbull@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T04:42:50.127821Z
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@Eleutheromaniac @Nora @iMeMiss Yes, exactly! Some degree of “feeling empowered” is good because it keeps you going, but the superficial stuff is counterproductive. Femininity is designed to be literally disempowering. Remember that “weaponized femininity” trend? Absurd.
(DIR) Post #A07GABHB3N8gTdOJLE by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T10:26:52.126573Z
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@the_trunchbull @Eleutheromaniac @iMeMiss I don't remember that, will look it up, with trepidation...
(DIR) Post #A07GRZquvqFxceP4iG by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T10:30:00.432560Z
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@the_trunchbull @iMeMiss I had more or less the same feelings about POALOF- I found it decent, but ultimately lacking and, I don't know, it appealed to so many pervy men, it could have disrupted that somehow, but chose to be delicate and pretty instead. Maybe I ask too much.
(DIR) Post #A07GSKra9BiNQK4lm4 by iMeMiss@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T02:02:15.977408Z
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@Nora This might seem like an odd one, it’s an animated movie from abt 10 years ago: Monsters vs. Aliens. My kids & I liked it alot, & I especially liked that the female protaganist came to realize that she is strong & capable of great things all on her own & she didn’t need a beau, or to be someone’s wife. Also, it was funny.Reece Witherspoon is the voice actress behind “Susan/Ginormica”
(DIR) Post #A07GSfJG7zjmpxB9gu by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T02:05:06.742360Z
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@iMeMiss @Nora No, wait, you’re on to something 😂 I definitely remember feeling better about myself and life in general after watching Monsters vs. Aliens
(DIR) Post #A07GTpiaukmhPNaPB3 by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T10:30:22.009883Z
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@lezpaulguitars @iMeMiss I'm gonna have to watch it - thanks!
(DIR) Post #A07GfbDeeBmxuoj0Ii by Nora@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T10:32:32.296705Z
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@the_trunchbull I can understand this - I'm not sure if I believe in feminist film either, at least I'm not sure I've *seen* any. I think it's possible - women making low-budget documentaries on their own, for instance. But huge productions end up bowing to the pressures of market and studio and endless compromise.
(DIR) Post #A07GfvYF3M8kySVjAO by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T01:45:28.105442Z
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@Nora film: Movies like Terminator 2 and Alien that depict women as strong and capable protagonists, movies that depict lesbians positively and without male gaze like Desert Hearts.tv: Halt and Catch Fire, and shows like it, where women are important characters with unique personalities, skills, and rich inner lives. Two of the women also start a game dev company together in season 2 of the show. music: Women getting angry, like Bikini Kill. Women tackling misogyny through their music, like Tori Amos and Ani Difranco.
(DIR) Post #A07GfvmQCdTzgR93Gi by Childfree@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T01:57:09.050552Z
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@lezpaulguitars @Nora I love Halt and Catch Fire. For All Mankind (ironic title) is a TV show that largely focuses on the women in NASA and so far I’ve enjoyed it a lot.
(DIR) Post #A07Kcjyc1xji1Xa6VM by radfemMD@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T01:28:00.440642Z
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@Nora I’m currently experiencing this at my job, and it’s unfortunately from the older successful women. Basically in order to “get ahead,” you have to embrace your femininity looks wise (nails always done, hair always done, makeup, etc.) but also be “one of the guys” by not showing any empathy and be willing to step on other women to get ahead.These women feel that acting that way is empowering because they were actually able to climb to the (somewhat) top. Maybe it’s a generational difference in thought, but I don’t see how acting like the men in the office and putting other women down is empowering.
(DIR) Post #A07KfcYa4eGvsdmLHU by lezpaulguitars@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T01:13:05.711748Z
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@Nora I definitely suffered for my liberal feminist thinking during my early years in college, not as badly as a lot of the girls I knew, but still. One of the reasons I spent most of my first year at uni smoking was because I had a hard time dealing with how much of an outcast I felt like because I was surrounded by girls that performed femininity to the 9th degree, I felt like I was weird. More so than I had in high school because in my small town it was only the “popular” girls that felt the need to look/act like barbies 24/7. If I knew what I know now I would’ve been less hard on myself for not conforming. I was also having a hard time with my sexuality because the girls around me didn’t (for the most part) brand me as a predatory lesbian because I said I was bisexual and kept dating guys, and I internalized that. (“I get it, you’re a harmless bisexual, not some big scary dyke, and you want us to know that” - my daft roommate when I tried to start a conversation about how they need to stop believing in the predatory lesbian stereotype, lesbians aren’t “worse” than bisexuals)I also spent way too much of my 2nd year focusing on having a dating life, the guys I dated trying to pressure me into having sex with them took up like half my brain space and slowly drove me insane. It was also really obviously tied to my experiences at this school (hell) because I regressed back to my early high school mindset and started wearing makeup everyday, dressing more feminine, and actively ignoring how miserable I was. After breaking up with an ex-jock diesel mechanic I’d been dating for 6 months that I was scared would hit me if I ever ran into him in person again, I dated a really non-threatening tim that said he was a lesbian. After I broke up with him (we lasted about 4 weeks until I was like wow, this person is more self centered than any guy I’ve dated and that’s quite an achievement) I literally took a year off of dating because I recognized that I clearly needed to figure my shit out. //sorry for the rant lol but what I’m trying to make a point of is that I fell for the liberal feminist bs just as much as anyone else
(DIR) Post #A07KjXtZLaRma6T2ES by jonimitchell@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T00:40:03.012302Z
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@Nora @Mafalda @lezpaulguitars I’m really worried for my sister. She’s very into lnstagram and makeup, and she’s had some very questionable boyfriends. I hate that she’s surrounded by people who encourage her to “empower” herself through things that are degrading and leave her with major self-esteem issues, but there’s not really anything I can do other than hope she makes safe decisions. It’s a difficult situation to grow up with. Sometimes I worry that social media puts pressure on teenagers (teenage girls especially) to have adult sex lives and sex appeal before they’re even out of high school. It seems like most of my friends either don’t date at all or have a very unhealthy romantic history…things are definitely not great for teenage girls or young twenty-somethings who want to date. I have another friend who went to college, became polyamorous, and only broke up with her manipulative boyfriend when he tried to convince her to join a literal cult…and we’re in the middle of conservative Texas! It’s crazy.
(DIR) Post #A07pwWVWunhMcYtK8O by SpiritKrabs@spinster.xyz
2020-10-13T16:55:27.892676Z
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@Nora Plastic surgery, makeup, fashion, beauty culture-I’ve actually heard of pretty much every individual thing associated with femininity referred to as ‘empowering’. Libfems have turned ‘empowerment’ into a synonym for ‘gives me a dopamine hit due to social validation and addictions engendered by consumerism’. Anything you do to fall in line with society’s humiliation of women is ‘empowering’. And if you conform and enforce conformity even when you have the power not to, whether in the workplace or socially, you’re not a coward or someone who can’t critically think, instead you’re a #bossbabe and the gnc women who openly defy and criticize this consumerist bs are just ‘jealous’ and ‘hating on women’. I’ve also heard that prostitution is empowering, and that submissive/feminine women are ‘the most powerful’, so that probably takes the cake. The sad part is that all of these things were said to me by women only, and some of them have daughters too.