Post 9zCL4ZskVGQAn3RAH2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #9yxZP7RjuDQMfQ5sHo by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T20:22:48Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
I see that more and more (climate) activist groups are using #Telegram. I worry about this. Please read why:- Telegram groups are not end-to-end encrypted.- Meta-data: Telegram can see who are a group member.- Although they say the messages are encrypted on their servers (with a home-made encryption protocol), they are the ones having the keys, so in theory they can also see what’s said in the group.- There are examples of groups that were deleted by Telegram. Although these where ISIS and criminal groups, remember that Telegram has the power to do this.- You can only sign-up with your phone number.- Only the Telegram clients (apps) are open source, not the code they use on their servers.- Telegram is founded, owned and funded by the Russian billionaire Pavel Durov. Although he’s anti-Putin, he’s a (American style) libertarian and of course a capitalist.Please find something better folks!#activism #security #privacy
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Wq9oRZ7M9CYJk by GwenfarsGarden@rage.love
2020-09-08T21:04:27Z
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@jeroenpraat but is there anything else? Something that's a least a bit user friendly for non-techies?
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Xd4sYhHns5cZM by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T21:09:12Z
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@GwenfarsGarden There are many alternatives, like Signal (also not perfect, but a lot better than Telegram), Wire, Briar, Matrix, etc
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Xrc0WK6WwtEDw by GwenfarsGarden@rage.love
2020-09-08T21:10:37Z
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@jeroenpraat which would you recommend of those that's easiest for non-techies?
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Y3fHhxr8KWr0i by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T21:13:48Z
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@GwenfarsGarden Signal or Wire.
(DIR) Post #9zCL4YLODo8u1Ip0dc by freeloader2020@mas.to
2020-09-09T12:51:02Z
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@jeroenpraat @GwenfarsGarden signal looks like the better of these options but I'll still have to recommend matrix for those who don't want to use a phone number.
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Ydp7Gt6wTRjN2 by kete@todon.nl
2020-09-09T13:14:56Z
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@freeloader2020 @jeroenpraat @GwenfarsGarden Silence is a fork of Signal. I 2nd Matrix. I've used it through Element, formerly known as Riot. I'll have to look into Wire.
(DIR) Post #9zCL4Z09mEki3jtZBI by freeloader2020@mas.to
2020-09-09T14:21:27Z
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@kete @jeroenpraat @GwenfarsGarden Wire isn't as great according to the thread. I may check out Silence if I need an alternative to Matrix.
(DIR) Post #9zCL4ZMURCcJB0LOzY by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-09T15:37:20Z
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@freeloader2020 @kete @GwenfarsGarden Why don't these services don't use a more original name. Try searching for silence, signal, element, wire, matrix, riot, etc. 😉 What's next; WiFi IM!? 😜
(DIR) Post #9zCL4ZcRTtNRyTo8rA by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-09T15:45:48Z
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@freeloader2020 Silence has no (Linux) desktop app, so that's not a candidate. @kete @GwenfarsGarden
(DIR) Post #9zCL4ZskVGQAn3RAH2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:22:59Z
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@jeroenpraat n> Silence has no (Linux) desktop appNeither does Briar, AFAIK it's only on Android so far. It can do blogs and forums though and all without any servers, which is pretty cool. Jami is both serverless and cross-platform, but it can't do text group chats yet (it can do voice / video group chats), nor sync between devices. In my experience, it's not ready for primetime.@freeloader2020 @kete @GwenfarsGarden
(DIR) Post #9zCLC3uZFlZnx3rAWm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:24:30Z
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@jeroenpraat I've been curating a list of free code chat apps here:http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Free_Code_Chat_AppsFeedback welcome. #chat
(DIR) Post #9zCLdpijblIG31Z29o by resynth1943@mastodon.tedomum.net
2020-09-08T21:02:21Z
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@jeroenpraat Element is wonderful. Encryption in any room. Voice / video chats. Decentralisation. Everything's open-source, too.https://element.io
(DIR) Post #9zCLdq1sSabd0OWJzk by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T21:05:24Z
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@resynth1943 But that's Matrix, and my experience is that only matrix.org is reliable. But I week have a look.
(DIR) Post #9zCLdqFhdBfHhGzMXo by resynth1943@mastodon.tedomum.net
2020-09-08T21:10:59Z
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@jeroenpraat well, I'm not entirely sure how you're experiencing that. I'm on the https://chat.privacytools.io platform, and it's been very stable for everyone.
(DIR) Post #9zCLdqQgyKSIFM88fo by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T21:15:13Z
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@resynth1943 The problem I had was with different servers, with different versions, having bad federation.
(DIR) Post #9zCLdqonWhjnS7POFM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:29:28Z
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@jeroenpraat How long ago did you last test it? I've been using Riot / Element for quite a while, with an account on matrix.org and more recently another one on feneas.org. I'm pretty happy with it. But I guess I'm used to the fediverse, so I'm not bothered enough by delayed replies to notice them. Perhaps I need to have a 1=1 chat between my two accounts to test the federation performance? @resynth1943
(DIR) Post #9zCMZdmCArbznckP8S by tommy@mastodon.oi7.de
2020-09-08T20:57:14Z
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@jeroenpraat I would love to recommend XMPP, but except public group chats - which may have the potential to be an analogon to telegram groups - I simply can't recommend it. Multi-Device Multi User Channel encryption with OMEMO doesn't work 100% reliable
(DIR) Post #9zCMZe3v6xn2gb2YlM by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-08T21:02:04Z
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@tommy Yes that's my experience to with XMPP+OMEMO. Not only for groups chats, but also with individual chats. Especially with multiple devices, like you said.
(DIR) Post #9zCMZeEYTQITDa13L6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:39:53Z
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@jeroenpraat @tommy Have either of you tried Snikket.im ? It's aim is to wrap a better #UX around existing XMPP software (Prosody and Conversations so far) and build in trust between server hosts and their users, while still leveraging the benefits of federating with the wider jabber network. @snikket_im is a WIP, but eventually it could be a good option for activist groups with members (or trusted supporters) who have the skills to host a server.#Snikket #XMPP #jabber
(DIR) Post #9zCND9T6HI5JNsekW8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:47:04Z
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@freeloader2020 Silence is only an SMS app, although they may eventually try to develop a version for mobile GNU devices like the PinePhone. Silence can handle group chats, and using it's almost certainly a better option for activists than using unencrypted SMS.@kete @jeroenpraat @GwenfarsGarden #Silence #SMS
(DIR) Post #9zCNNIimjLN6yfpenA by kete@todon.nl
2020-09-09T15:47:43Z
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@freeloader2020 @jeroenpraat @GwenfarsGarden Here's where I found out about Silence: https://share.tube/videos/watch/4cd2c55b-2349-40b1-8bfb-daddf12ffec2Someone in the thread mentioned Jami which has been fine for the one text conversation I had. https://mamot.fr/@Arco/104072666317451908 Mostly the problem is getting someone else to use it with me.
(DIR) Post #9zCNNJ9j7AvGKERAmm by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-09T15:57:53Z
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@kete The original thread is about activist groups using Telegram. They use this because it's already used by a lot of people. The other candidate in that respect is Signal, cause it's also used by a lot of people. So it already solves the network effect. Plus you can also use it for SMS.Of course I'm in favour of Matrix, XMPP, etc, but people must install a new unknown app, and that is somehow a problem for people I've found out during the years.Hopefully this Signal project will be ready asap, cause that fixes a lot of things.https://signal.org/blog/signal-private-group-system/@freeloader2020 @GwenfarsGarden
(DIR) Post #9zCNvERV93hrYLvYxc by manu@floss.social
2020-09-09T11:19:54Z
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@jeroenpraat Yep.Be careful with #wire too: https://blog.privacytools.io/delisting-wire
(DIR) Post #9zCNvEgkENtqJd3jii by jeroenpraat@todon.nl
2020-09-09T12:12:38Z
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@manu Thank you for the link. Reading it, I think it's still better than Signal.
(DIR) Post #9zCNvExPERE99Ir2gq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-15T23:54:59Z
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@jeroenpraat Same! I find it weird (and even a bit fishy) that PTIO have totally delisted Wire for relatively minor issues, while continually cheerleading Signal. Despite the *huge* list of significant issues that have been brought to their attention numerous times:https://github.com/privacytools/privacytools.io/issues/779@manu
(DIR) Post #9zCP8McY9MFKdUv9sG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-16T00:08:31Z
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@muppeth > the resources needed to run synapse ... are huge in comparison to xmpp True. But Synapse is a prototype. Other matrix servers are already being developed in more efficient languages (Dendrite in Go, Construct in C++, Conduit in Rust etc). Also, this simply doesn't matter to users as much as a good UX. The UX of jabber has improved a lot in recent years, and I have high hopes that the ModernXMPP and Snikket projects will push it further, but it still has a way to go.@jeroenpraat
(DIR) Post #9zCPn0dOncGWJshQ3s by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-16T00:15:56Z
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@jeroenpraat I know it's already been mentioned in the thread, but I want to give honourable mention to Delta Chat. It can do E2EE smoothly, including in group chats. It leverages the network effect of a widely used federatd protocol, email, which is massive compared to silos like Telegram or Signal. The UX is easy enough that I managed to get a few relatively Luddite friends using it with me.
(DIR) Post #9zCQ1rrPhdiZS3L7Gy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-16T00:18:41Z
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@jeroenpraat The only thing I would add to Delta Chat is a clearer visual indicator when a message isn't going to be E2EE, because it's being sent to a recipient who isn't known to use DC too, or another Autocrypt capable email app.#DeltaChat #Autocrypt
(DIR) Post #9zDHHEjUF4ceIoqTom by wiktor@metacode.biz
2020-09-16T09:55:45.377Z
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"It’s just a prototype" card that is played constantly doesn’t inspire confidence. And betting on “more efficient languages” assumes all issues are due to implementation and not the protocol. If the problems of resources because of Matrix protocol design then even rewriting it with hand-crafted assembly won’t fix it.For the record I like Riot.im (I use it every day) and wish XMPP had a similar web client (or something like RocketChat). This is a missing piece for my customers too to consider XMPP a viable team messenger.
(DIR) Post #9zDHHF4OzJLvLgdBQ0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-16T10:15:12Z
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@wiktor > "It’s just a prototype" card that is played constantly It's not a "card", it's just stating a fact. > If the problems of resources because of Matrix protocol design then even rewriting it with hand-crafted assembly won’t fix it.True, but the performance of the other server projects suggests it is a language issue, not a protocol issue. There are reasons Goggle engineers invented Go instead of writing their production software in Python or Ruby.@jeroenpraat
(DIR) Post #9zDHjqLNzvQL3nDHXs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-09-16T10:20:26Z
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@wiktor> For the record I like Riot.im (I use it every day) and wish XMPP had a similar web clientExactly. I've been using federated jabber apps since before Goggle adopted XMPP for GChat. It's a fact that after 20 years, none of the jabber app teams have created the quality of UX that the Element (formerly Riot) team have created in 5. Some of those jabber projects were by VC-funded companies too, eg the original Jabber company and Jitsi. Let's blame the protocol ;P@jeroenpraat
(DIR) Post #9zE5nlfsIR4lRbrTlY by honigdachse@mastodon.social
2020-09-16T19:41:18Z
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@strypey Activists could use xmpp over tor right now and be done with it.
(DIR) Post #9zFObC7IlWanybMtNo by dazinism@social.coop
2020-09-17T10:46:34Z
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@strypeyThink its early days, but for devices other than android there is https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar-gtk @jeroenpraat @freeloader2020 @kete @GwenfarsGarden
(DIR) Post #A0oJfUyq0oKjEDHHnM by xavavu@mstdn.mx
2020-11-03T04:58:22Z
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@strypey @snikket_im for mobile it looks like only android app is available at the moment. i love this idea. hopefully an iOS app and either desktop or web app can be made available for me to be able to into to my circles.
(DIR) Post #A1g3EpbMdCTB0USSHo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-11-29T03:08:49Z
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@xavavu The long term goal is to have Snikket clients for all platforms, including the web. A client for iThings is currently in the works.If you want to help make that happen, you can help us connect with funders that support the vision of a user-respecting chat network, or donate using the links here:https://snikket.org/donate/Donations and grants are handled by the Snikket Community Interest Company, registered in the UK, and used to pay developers working on the software.#Snikket