Post 9yh2e0MT529JqPQuhs by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
(DIR) More posts by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
(DIR) Post #9ygp9SpBuDFtjxyUfg by mk@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T18:29:35.480852Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
Publicly trashing other feminists because you disagree on specific tactics even though we all share the goal of women’s liberation and it will probably take a huge range of tactics and creativity on all fronts to actually make any progress for women and girls:
(DIR) Post #9ygv86j3BQeodXq4WW by Hollahollara@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T18:41:15.342021Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Agreed. Public infighting reinforces the stereotype that women can’t be loyal to each other, or to a cause. A person can say nearly anything while still allowing for the dignity of those with whom we disagree. (Not advocating for performative “respectability politics,” however.)@mk
(DIR) Post #9ygv8TK1AfIeiZIuCO by DejaVu@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T18:40:59.782070Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mk It is so deeply embarrassing, eh? Snobbery and elitism is still alive and well in Britain it seems. 🤷
(DIR) Post #9ygyy1okyZ0YKsxPs0 by MandyJane@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T19:47:28.580787Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mk I would have a lot more respect for them if they just had a straightforward argument. Women are human, we are going to disagree, we are going to argue. Sometimes we just plain won’t like each other. We should be honest about.
(DIR) Post #9yh0TwBlXUkA6CV01w by SouerTeresa@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:34:50.221487Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@MandyJane @mk we dont have to like each other to fight for the same thing. Im horrified by what i have seen on twitter tonight between feminists. When they have the sheer guts to stand at Speakers Corner with no protection from anybody, produce the stickers and posters that have widened public understanding, then other women can sneer about those who are actually doing something in the real world. Unexpected vitriol from some feminists i really respected has made me rage today.
(DIR) Post #9yh1X06FYRGP3GwYUa by Justbrowsing@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:28:40.727829Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mk Hi. Can you define “Trashing” please? Do you mean personal attacks on an individual, or do you mean constructive disagreement?I’m asking you because people may call it is trashing if someone is criticizing their tactics and wants to see improvement, or doesn’t agree with the methods of their tactics, sees a problem and offers solutions. I think if we’re going to succeed in anything, we need to be open to ideas, criticism, collaboration and implementing new methods instead of sticking to what we know and do just because…I was reading about Otpor movement, and how a small group of students succeeded in their activism, and then I came across this handy book called “The path of most resistance. A step by step guide to planning non-violent campaigns”. https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/The-Path-of-Most-Resistance-Ivan-Marovic-1.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3WRt0phFFmnjDmuAs7p3CZP3veAOD_WzMCsio7K4TAdIsR0sTuCcFGCTcThe success of a great movement depends on understanding our strength and weaknesses, do we know them, how to tackle each one, how to strategize, brainstorm, pick the best ideas, gather allies, plan, and so on. And I think we lack many of these points, and I say this because of my many personal experiences and personal observations. Does it mean I’m trashing feminists?
(DIR) Post #9yh1X183jCIyFAnVx2 by mk@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:48:18.597759Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Justbrowsing This is a good article on trashing that I think sums it up well: https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/trashing.htm“There is, of course, a fine line between trashing and political struggle, between character assassination and legitimate objections to undesirable behavior. Discerning the difference takes effort. Here are some pointers to follow. Trashing involves heavy use of the verb “to be” and only a light use of the verb “to do.” It is what one is and not what one does that is objected to, and these objections cannot be easily phrased in terms of specific undesirable behaviors. Trashers also tend to use nouns and adjectives of a vague and general sort to express their objections to a particular person. These terms carry a negative connotation, but don’t really tell you what’s wrong. That is left to your imagination. Those being trashed can do nothing right. Because they are bad, their motives are bad, and hence their actions are always bad. There is no making up for past mistakes, because these are perceived as symptoms and not mistakes.”Also this for further context: https://feminist-reprise.org/library/resistance-strategy-and-struggle/power-and-helplessness-in-the-womens-movement/The main way you can tell apart trashing and productive struggle IMO is to look at what is the object of the critique. Is the object of the critique a particular tactic, idea, or fact? Then it’s probably genuine struggle. Or is the object of critique a woman herself, especially who she is as a person, and especially in moralizing terms? Then it’s probably trashing.I’m familiar with Otpor and worked for many years in non-violent direct action campaigns. That work has informed my perspective on trashing in the movement, and I wrote about that here: https://4w.pub/emotional-pacifism-responding-to-feminist-in-fighting-with-nonviolence/Hope this helps clarify!
(DIR) Post #9yh1ZQ0QCvjFydN1EW by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:41:01.628032Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@SouerTeresa @MandyJane @mk I get the different approaches to the issues. I get the disappointment when someone sides with the right. But airing our dirty laundry in public can’t be good feminism when Twitter is where the haters hang out waiting for us to fail.
(DIR) Post #9yh21Ogugm1y0YaRCi by macha@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:52:57.237472Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@NeoRadFem @SouerTeresa @MandyJane @mk Yup. Arguing on Twitter is just about the worst thing we can do as feminists but I doubt that will ever stop.I have been part of the feminist movement in one way or another since about 1980 and it has always been difficult and argumentative. Lots of women with different views but who all feel strongly that they are right are never going to easily coalesce around one focus.I try to avoid directly naming and criticising others and to stay out of squabbles. This does not stop me from saying what I think is important and supporting people I admire. I may admire them for a lifetime of work or just one action even though they have done other things I don’t agree with. This used to be normal. 🙄
(DIR) Post #9yh2a4nedUuoS4HBCq by SouerTeresa@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:59:40.089929Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@macha @NeoRadFem @MandyJane @mk I agree with what you say. Whatever happened to sisterhood? The idea that feminism is for all women even the ones you dont like? Age 16 i was a witch and there were a whole load of different occult groups who constantly argued about who was the witchiest witches, at uni everyone argued about who was the most Marxist Marxists, it just seems to be inevitable with people. But dont tear down people who are reaching people many academic feminists wouldnt reach. Many women can relate to Posie when they cant other more radical feminists. Support her dont attack her.
(DIR) Post #9yh2e0MT529JqPQuhs by NeoRadFem@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T20:58:38.751482Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@macha @MandyJane @SouerTeresa @mk I just watched Mrs. America. I loved the fact that the difficulties and arguments existed right back to the origins of the second wave. :-)
(DIR) Post #9yh3FcXQ6SXkxgUaXY by Justbrowsing@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T21:07:06.147817Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mk Yes to “ Or is the object of critique a woman herself, especially who she is as a person, and especially in moralizing terms? Then it’s probably trashing.”Those personal attacks that are expressed in many many ways. I’m very familiar with them. Thanks for clearing it up.
(DIR) Post #9yh3Igif0uQgnZDFRI by grimauld@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T21:07:51.486083Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mk @Justbrowsing Something I notice is the difference between criticising a person’s actions and criticising a person’s (very much assumed!) intentions or motivations. (It can be a bit funny in an unfortunate way because when it’s really off the wall, you get insight into the person doing the trashing, that they’d probably rather you not have.) I’m too irritable for a fully pacifist approach but I try not to escalate things. Personally I think it’s only ‘female socialisation’ inasmuch as it keeps things constructive, rather than performing random acts of destruction and assuming that someone else will clean things up.
(DIR) Post #9yh4k5O5VQWj4vDaQy by Sherri_Ingrey@spinster.xyz
2020-08-31T21:21:09.783079Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@mk @Justbrowsing I LOVE JOANNA RUSS. Best NAMALT ever
(DIR) Post #9yhtus9o8DWgtQRJHk by quixote@spinster.xyz
2020-09-01T06:57:42.023548Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Sherri_Ingrey @mk @Justbrowsing Exactly! That needs to be embroidered onto something the size of the AIDS quilt.