Post 9y3wrNFdducMNEaSPY by algernon@trunk.mad-scientist.club
(DIR) More posts by algernon@trunk.mad-scientist.club
(DIR) Post #9y3lbRCG6gRuTuCkU4 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-12T22:15:54Z
0 likes, 4 repeats
If you're a software developer who, like me, thinks Microsoft & the rest of the "Frightful Five" have way too much power an influence... the best way to take them all down a few pegs is to release the software you write under a #Copyleft license like the GPL/AGPL. They *hate* that, because they can't co-opt it like they can all the "weak" MIT/Apache/BSD licensed open source. #FOSS is MSFT's kryptonite. Pass it on.
(DIR) Post #9y3olExSlRzPHYeLsO by meka@bsd.network
2020-08-12T22:51:13Z
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@lightweight and it also makes small business not able to use it, too. I'm just saying that there are two sides to every story.I do hate those companies, I just chose different kind of fight and that's improving code of OS I like which is #FreeBSD in field that I like which is music/audio and few other smaller projects like Flask and React based ones frameworks. This is not what I suggest everyone should do, because people have different skills, free time, ...Find your own weapon of #floss
(DIR) Post #9y3qAwzyGB9z45e8lk by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-12T23:07:11Z
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@meka Actually, I've run a small businesses for the past 20 years & #copyleft software has always been my preference. For 14 years, I ran a bespoke dev shop, where we developed 100% #FOSS, and #copyleft where-ever the upstream wasn't some other #FOSS license. The idea copyleft is "anti-business" is based on deeply flawed conventional wisdom. It's pro-user, not anti-business. I'm confident natural selection will favour bizzes who understand that.
(DIR) Post #9y3qJaZwz8pO8bavcu by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-12T23:08:12Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@meka Actually, I've run small businesses for 20 years & #copyleft software has always been my preference. For 14 years, I ran a bespoke dev shop, where we developed 100% #FOSS - #copyleft where-ever the upstream wasn't some other #FOSS license. The idea copyleft is "anti-business" is based on deeply flawed conventional wisdom. It's pro-user, not anti-business. I'm confident natural selection will favour bizzes who understand that.
(DIR) Post #9y3qWk0jEFVT9fOK12 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-12T23:11:08Z
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@meka personally, I think that "weak" open source licenses are a major liability, and many folks in the "ethical source" movement revile #copyleft, which I find fascinating and very counter-productive because I think copyleft is by far the most effective way to use a license to create a disincentive for unethical use of software.
(DIR) Post #9y3soLIK3suNcU8plo by papa@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-08-12T23:36:39Z
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@lightweight Has a copyleft license ever been enforced by a court?
(DIR) Post #9y3szXnVuqDlaC4Xjs by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-12T23:38:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@papa Yup. Many times. Its effectiveness is well proven. See https://www.softwarefreedom.org/ for more info.
(DIR) Post #9y3wrNFdducMNEaSPY by algernon@trunk.mad-scientist.club
2020-08-13T00:21:53Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@lightweight @meka I'm running a small business too, all copyleft. One of my clients is another small business, also all copyleft. I also worked for a small business (who's been there for 20+ years, and are still going strong), who also were all copyleft.There's nothing in copyleft that would make it impossible (or even hard) for small businesses to use and build on software licensed under those licenses.
(DIR) Post #9y3x3fTph4jsNv5YKO by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:24:18Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@algernon @meka bingo. In fact, we found our customers actually really valued our principled advocacy and practical protection of their sovereignty and freedom. (fwiw, I sold that company to a bigger #FOSS company - see https://www.catalyst.net.nz/news/catalyst-it-acquires-egressive ).
(DIR) Post #9y3xXSrn9gMJx5VGbI by carcinopithecus@x0r.be
2020-08-13T00:29:37Z
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@lightweight @algernon @meka just to be clear, does "copyleft" inherently mean the licence includes a prohibition on creating proprietary works using the software as a tool? (or, on the other hand, does it inherently imply "freedom 0"?)
(DIR) Post #9y3xhoF0XYnh8iIMHQ by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:31:33Z
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@carcinopithecus @algernon @meka it requires that any derived works are released under the same license, effectively precluding proprietary derivatives. I see this as a major strength. Why? See https://davelane.nz/proprietary
(DIR) Post #9y3xxE7GcSeBjY1fwO by carcinopithecus@x0r.be
2020-08-13T00:34:18Z
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@lightweight @algernon @meka i was thinking more like if i make a picture in GIMP i'm not stuck with publishing the picture under GPL or somethingbut now that i actually ~say~ that example ~out loud~ i guess i've answered my own question
(DIR) Post #9y3y4nzNdxbX1Bx0ts by MadestMadness@meow.social
2020-08-13T00:35:39Z
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@lightweight I think the distinction is that preventing usage by fascists at whatever scale they may operate is also a goal worth striving towards simultaneously. Dictating explicitly the ethical principles under which the software may be used does more than prevent megacorporations from using the software, it prevents harm in other contexts as well.It's a "paradox of tolerance" sort of thing. The lack of purity disappoints me, but we don't live in a pure world, though
(DIR) Post #9y3y9tuh2ncIqABjSy by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:35:48Z
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@carcinopithecus @algernon @meka :) - using a tool to create a file (in an open standard format, as is typical of #FOSS end-user-software :) ) - there's no inherent dependency on the original app, so it's not a "derivative" so, no, you're under no obligation to license your digital artefact under the same license. I would, however, encourage the use of CC-By or CC-By-SA ;)
(DIR) Post #9y3yLtmFNOvrtPxUau by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:38:49Z
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@MadestMadness I'm totally down with the "paradox of tolerance" (I live in Chch, NZ, where Karl Popper wrote it :) ) but I also think that a license is the wrong place to define the ethical position of the author. It will be ignored by fascists in any case. Licenses are too static and laboured. I think the enforcement of ethics must happen in the community and in the marketplace instead.
(DIR) Post #9y3yVSsSFDFRMOQK6C by MadestMadness@meow.social
2020-08-13T00:36:17Z
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@lightweight It certainly has the potential of making things like redistribution, porting, and relicensing a massive pain, though
(DIR) Post #9y3yVTpIiQJsItxJp2 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:40:32Z
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@MadestMadness ultimately, a license is a legal document. Legal language, with its very code-like interpretation, is a very very awkward place to describe human values. I think a dynamic domain, like an active community, is the place for those things to be expressed, by humans, to humans.
(DIR) Post #9y3yaDWgkM7ZCJVbd2 by MadestMadness@meow.social
2020-08-13T00:40:50Z
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@lightweight I can see that. At a small scale, it's not like legal action is a consideration anyways. Removed from consequence, fascists aren't exactly likely to adhere to principle if it gets in the way of what they want
(DIR) Post #9y3yejwEBKvAsbbxJI by carcinopithecus@x0r.be
2020-08-13T00:40:51Z
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@lightweight @algernon @meka thanks, i think this clears up one major hangup people have - like you might end up doing something for a client who for whatever reason needs to be sure the end product can be made proprietary (e.g., illustrations for someone's book where they're already in negotiations with a mainstream publisher) - it literally is not worth losing a good client over something like this when the entire creative process itself can still be foss
(DIR) Post #9y3yjlMuI83KlPU9ZY by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T00:42:42Z
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@carcinopithecus @algernon @meka the danger of having a proprietary vendor claim rights over your digital output is far far greater, I can assure you. Also, I can offer 14 years of running a dev/design shop using 100% #FOSS tools (Inkscape, GIMP, Scribus, Blender, etc.) for design, as an example of that fear *not* being borne out :)
(DIR) Post #9y42nBXVqOeYcKKjGC by pj@bitcoinhackers.org
2020-08-13T01:28:41Z
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@lightweight any good examples besides WordPress?
(DIR) Post #9y42thGSnv46kRSom8 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T01:29:49Z
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@pj note sure of the context? Examples of what? GPL'd apps with more than 60% content managed web market share?
(DIR) Post #9y43Bax1173ENYtxZI by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T01:33:04Z
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@pj Well, the 2 biggest web platforms, WP and Drupal, are both GPL'd (together they make up more than 70% of the content managed web, which is pretty incredible). Linux is (it's by far the most widely deployed OS on the planet). Most of the great web services I use or host are AGPL...
(DIR) Post #9y43IoTl7NqIMYevAG by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T01:34:18Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@pj (Linux is also by far the most widely deployed OS *off the planet*, too. Just sayin')
(DIR) Post #9y4KDxZ9bUwmJoSCrQ by 0xf0@x0r.be
2020-08-13T04:43:46Z
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@lightweight @meka @tootbrute that’s interesting Dave. Is your business still on?
(DIR) Post #9y4KOuqg2zPj4msHwW by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-13T04:45:52Z
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@0xf0 @meka @tootbrute Egressive, the dev shop, was acquired in 2012 - https://www.catalyst.net.nz/news/catalyst-it-acquires-egressive I have a consultancy, LaneVentures (see https://davelane.nz) & a very compatible full-time roll: https://tech.oeru.org/democratising-higher-education-oers-foss
(DIR) Post #9y69urESJn9nwlweqe by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2020-08-14T01:57:46Z
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By the way, another really good way to take the Frightful Five down... is to refuse to work for them. And also we can apply peer pressure to our (well paid) friends who do... to do the right thing and move jobs. Because who you work for is an ethical decision (especially for people as valuable as devs). And no, they'll never "change from within". They're true to their broken nature: https://davelane.nz/megacorps