Post 9xD09f0LEG2SInUrom by leth@social.viktorlindberg.com
(DIR) More posts by leth@social.viktorlindberg.com
(DIR) Post #9xCqPaEtiMlUcBG9E8 by error_1202@mspsocial.net
2020-07-18T07:15:23Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
An English-speaker friend of mine expressing her frustrations with trying to learn languages with grammatical gender:"English may be three languages in a trenchcoat going through other languages' pockets for spare grammar, but at least I don't have to try and remember whether those pockets are girl pockets or boy pockets."
(DIR) Post #9xCqPbYmnuGgi9ZXrk by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T09:27:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@error_1202 Time to learn Swedish, which has four genders but where only the two neutral ones are really used.
(DIR) Post #9xCqPc9Ic9TWXOehmL by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T09:30:02.127830Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Or learn Norwegian where whether you have two or three genders depends on what dialect you speak
(DIR) Post #9xCtSU7PEBq0MXpXaC by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T10:03:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @error_1202 Let me guess. Nynorsk is the weird one with three?
(DIR) Post #9xCtSVIQqgFg11zrPM by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T10:04:21.932724Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Those aren't dialects, both of those have three. But depending on your dialect (Including Oslo) the feminine gender is basically dead so only masculine and neuter are left
(DIR) Post #9xCzITuJl1CUXMK0Bs by operand@todon.nl
2020-07-18T10:33:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @loke @error_1202 Or Dutch, where grammatical gender exists but only in some cases. We have two definite articles, which only distinguish between "male or female" and "neuter". These are arbitrary to the point where fairly often a group of native speakers won't be able to agree on which is the correct article. But then in some dialects, the indefinite particle (and others) are gendered again.
(DIR) Post #9xCzIV1nagmM0qpUUS by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:09:42.504590Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@operand @loke @error_1202 In Norwegian we have suffixes for the two genders masculine and femminine as well as neuter (aka genderless). So in Norwegian some words are gendered, others are not gendered. (Although ungendered words are effectively just a third gender for the most part)Multiple dialects have decided that they don't need the femminine gender for some reason so those dialects only have one gender, and genderless. So effectively two. "Genderless" words are named as such because the two genders use a suffix for plural, while genderless words do not. Kind of like uncountable words in english such as "news" that aren't conjugated at all between singular and plural.The two official forms of Norwegian (Bokmål and Nynorsk) use them all. But the Norwegian language is a bit broken so those forms don't really apply most places. Wherever you go people here speak and write in dialects which all vary in syntax, grammar and vocabulary depending on who you're talking to.
(DIR) Post #9xCzsyPjoMNHZqQ2D2 by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T11:10:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @error_1202 I thought you had the same neutral genders as Swedish? There is a difference between "en" and "ett" words.
(DIR) Post #9xCzsyvdtjtZAnLVwG by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:16:23.802872Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 I don't know what Sweden's is like. But neuter is called "intetkjønn", "ingenkjønn" or "inkjekjønn" in Norwegian. Again, all depending on which dialect you write in. Which literally means "no gender".But for all purposes it is a gender. It's just called genderless because they lack a suffix when plural. They use the same -et prefix as you mention at least.But:"En pute" (A pillow)"Den puta" (-en, "That Pillow")"Flere puter" (-er, "Multiple pillows")Compared to:"Eit tre" (A tree)"Det treet" (-et, "That tree")"Flere tre" (-, "Multiple trees")
(DIR) Post #9xD02nRDTWPkQmnJZ2 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:18:10.697274Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Of course, this is just the tip of the ice berg. Everything changes based on your dialect.Here's a chart of the different posessive pronouns depending on where you live:
(DIR) Post #9xD09f0LEG2SInUrom by leth@social.viktorlindberg.com
2020-07-18T11:17:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @loke @error_1202 There are dialects of Swedish that also preserves the three genders. There are probably Danish dialects doing the same, though I don't know that.
(DIR) Post #9xD09fLbxB3JMlRqyG by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:19:11.858871Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@leth @loke @error_1202 I think most nordic languages have more dialects. All languages have dialects, Nordic countries just seem to have a few extra.Norway is a bit unique though, in the fact that we WRITE our dialects too.
(DIR) Post #9xD0NE8DwF3F0meXMe by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:21:52.723789Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@leth @error_1202 @loke For example the word "not", or "inte" in Swedish can be all of the following in Norwegian:ikkeikkjeinteittjikkjitteitsjeAnd a few others. Depending on where one happens to live.The majority of which you can easily encounter in writing too, especially informal writing
(DIR) Post #9xD0bssNFTU7QrEDMO by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T11:23:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @error_1202 That's pretty much the same as Swedish. You differentiate between the two genders by whether you use "en" or "ett" to refer to it in singular:"en bil" (a car)"ett hus" (a house)"flera bilar" (several cars)"flera hus" (several houses)In Swedish the words that use "ett" usually, but not always, remain the same in plural:"ett bord" / "flera bord" (table)"ett berg" / "flera berg" (mountain)"ett slott" / "flera slott" (castle)However, it's not a rule without exceptions:"ett parti" / "flera partier" (party)
(DIR) Post #9xD0btVitAxbOtddh2 by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:24:30.007029Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Good to know.I've always just considered it a third gender.Though it's literally called "genderless" and I dunno which idiot came up with that name for it.
(DIR) Post #9xD0rP5Pm1WHfsjDFI by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T11:24:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @error_1202 That is true. We had spelling reforms that standardised the written language. Dialects still use their own words and grammar, but never written.
(DIR) Post #9xD0rQCtbh699NEhXs by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:27:19.126592Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 our failed reforms are the whole reason we're in this mess.We had Bokmål. (Or actually a different predecessor but let's call it bokmål for simplicity)People in the capital were fine with it because the rich people there basically spoke pure Danish anyways.A guy named Ivar Aasen decided to travel Norway and make a more accurate version of Norwegian based on how people actually speak.Nynorsk was born.People started adopting Nynorsk because it was literally supposed to be the "accurate" Norwegian based on how people actually spoke.The people around the capital who spoke something very close to Danish just... didn't bother adopting it.Fast forward to today and we still have a split over which form to use.
(DIR) Post #9xD0wQxkE0lkwRXUbg by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:28:15.449721Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Probably due to this broken writing split most people seem to have just gone "fuck it" and started writing their speech right out instead.Hence we ended up with a shitload of people keeping their dialects. And rather uniquely, we have a ton of written dialects too.
(DIR) Post #9xD1EVxqMrvXfNCttY by loke@functional.cafe
2020-07-18T11:28:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@quad @error_1202 And let me guess. Any suggestion to implement a language reform now would be seen a political move?
(DIR) Post #9xD1EWKszCMIopzIoK by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:31:29.812258Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 Not really. We already have the reform, it's called Nynorsk.It's just that the West has adopted it. The capital area around Oslo which holds like a quarter of our population to this day still sticks with Bokmål.And the north is generally confused because Bokmål and Nynorsk are both equally fucked from their perspective. And Nynorsk wasn't a particularly amazing representation of their speech in the first place.
(DIR) Post #9xD1Fzi5G7zAD8Xc6S by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:31:47.634021Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@loke @error_1202 So long story short the reform is Nynorsk.The capital are too stubborn to use it. Originally because it was filled with rich Danish bastards. Now because it's become tradition to speak like Bokmål over there.And the north honestly has no fucking idea what to do anymore.
(DIR) Post #9xD1fOtYl60DYp1W9g by quad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-18T11:36:21.735128Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@error_1202 @loke Basically we have "New Norwegian" and "Old Norwegian"The capital which was the single most important place in terms of national linguistic influence, especially now that they've started broadcasting radio and TV, haven't adopted it.So now "Old Norwegian" is killing "New Norwegian" again. Of course it does because almost all TV and Radio content is produced in Oslo. So today's kids are growing up with "Old Norwegian" because that's what all the Disney movies and stuff are dubbed in.
(DIR) Post #9xDD6sTbyy98cXBum8 by anarchiv@todon.nl
2020-07-18T08:30:42Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@error_1202 very occasionally, native German speakers will forget the grammatical gender of a word and just go "dhmmnh" instead of the proper article. no one talks about it but it's true
(DIR) Post #9xEeqedieTrUwmvo9I by besserwisser@kawen.space
2020-07-19T06:30:07.743498Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@error_1202 Pockets are female, obviously.