Post 9wtTqZMZ5it8laVR6u by eryn@toot.cat
(DIR) More posts by eryn@toot.cat
(DIR) Post #9wiRWwT190Fzz3ThvU by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-03T17:30:07.153097Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
the android rebels take another blow from google safetynet, this time in the form of hardware attestation. this will make it almoat impossible to use some apps, like banking apps and online games, if you use a custom rom, unlock your bootloader, or enable root accesshttps://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestation-hide-root-magisk/
(DIR) Post #9wiRaQCV3HO74NPZAW by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-03T17:30:44.881070Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
on a related note, it looks like the pinephone is available to order again! (for now)https://store.pine64.org
(DIR) Post #9wihpozIm5sLYWbSa0 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-07-03T17:41:19Z
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@sireebob Thanks for the reminder. Thanks to having money left from our coronavirus stimulus check, we were finally able to order this thing. Can't wait for it to arrive.
(DIR) Post #9wihppY2gvfHIGrCjI by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-07-03T17:45:31Z
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@sireebob P.S. Having Ubports by default is gonna be awesome. Having a native Linux installation on our phone has always been a dream for us.
(DIR) Post #9wihpq7qXoIx5JbnXM by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-03T20:26:36Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @sireebob have been eying this too, but this part concerns me:"Small numbers (1-3) of stuck or dead pixels are a characteristic of LCD screens. These are normal and should not be considered a defect.[snip]If you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the PinePhone."It has been years (probably a decade, at least) since I've seen dead pixels in a device screen, and "dead pixel" stuffs spawned mass returns of mainstream products, resulting in massive increases in LCD quality amd reliability.Their insistence that the phenomenon is "normal" seems like straight up gaslighting.Why not just...admit you chose a subpar part, and tell the community about how you're fixing it in the next run of hardware?
(DIR) Post #9wihprj6alhc3A34Fc by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-07-03T20:32:45.931567Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @sireebob > When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the Pinebook Pro. Thank you.not very fair to snip the part that says that they aren't profiting from these devices imo
(DIR) Post #9wihtQWJgbmqpUlTV2 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-07-03T20:33:26.388746Z
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@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @sireebob that's from the PineBook Pro page https://store.pine64.org/product/14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-ansi-us-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-december-2019/
(DIR) Post #9wil1INk7z0DlhCLvk by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-07-03T20:39:45Z
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@xj9 @sireebob @eryn Honestly, that shouldn't make much of a difference. Profiting vs part selection is a nonsequitor.Sure, big corporations choose shitty parts because they want *more* profits. But that's not the only motivation there is.The truth is, eryn is right. LCD technology has gotten better to where dead pixels are a thing of the past. There's really no excuse anymore.
(DIR) Post #9wil1IdLBzTmY4UoF6 by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-07-03T21:08:27.755935Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@KitsuneAlicia @sireebob @eryn I disagree. you're expecting them to operate at a loss when they are already selling these units at cost. I'm willing to bet that dead pixels in corporate devices are just not shipped to anyone and they make up for it with their profit margins.
(DIR) Post #9wilvmSRUfaZGOKYSG by EMPEROR@shitposter.club
2020-07-03T21:18:44.523032Z
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@xj9 @KitsuneAlicia @eryn @sireebob "CPU: 64-Bit Dual-Core ARM 1.8GHz Cortex A72 and Quad-Core ARM 1.4GHz Cortex A53"is this as fast as an i7?for $200 I doubt it
(DIR) Post #9wivzrmUdtKaTQIQ8u by unlofl@mastodon.technology
2020-07-03T21:23:56Z
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@xj9 @sireebob @KitsuneAlicia @eryn yeah, it's still a prototype, battery life issues and dead pixels and all. When it's "ready", I'm sure they'll double the price and do more quality control and trash like 10% of all devices made and offer some official support and returns. This isn't a consumer product yet.
(DIR) Post #9wivzryBwOgl3hllNQ by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-07-03T21:34:17Z
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@unlofl @xj9 @sireebob @eryn That's fair, I guess.
(DIR) Post #9wivzsFusUrnwg3v0K by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-03T22:49:01Z
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@KitsuneAlicia @unlofl @xj9 @sireebob the fact that instead of expecting them to iterate towards more-modular designs such that flawed percentages can be eliminated at the basic component level, we're debating the ethics of intentionally trimming the capitalistic shyte from the equation, seems relevant.Yes, profit margins, etc, whatever.Limited edition, developer devices, sure.I can get sub-$30 displays that can be socketed into similar sized electronics without modification.Manufacturing an entire sms-capable platform is complex, and their failure to have a mechanism for the user to swap parts on a sub-device level is a deep flaw that prevents my further interest in that iteration of the project.My point being, there's less gaslight-y ways to say "we picked a bad batch of LCDs (link to how we are iterating ti fix this in the next round of hardware), and are no longer accepting returns for devices with dead pixels, purchasers accept this risk" and as an engineer i always feel vaguely insulted that they expect me to believe their statement that it's "normal".I understand the profit-seeking, or at least financial-balancing, side of it tho.Been there.it sucks.:-/
(DIR) Post #9wivzsYhkdtaswqvI0 by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-03T23:11:27.363555Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @unlofl @xj9 i'm not expecting perfection, here, and for all the complications the product will have, i think dead pixels will be the least. but pine64 isn't the only company to claim that dead pixels are normal, recently... this is nintendo from a few years ago:https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/nintendo-says-dead-switch-pixels-are-normal-is-that-true/
(DIR) Post #9wiwMQGd6Y6Xnj9ECu by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-03T23:15:34.025143Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @unlofl @xj9 also i am sure i am missing some nuance (i'm not sure what "subdevice" means exactly) but you can order a replacement display panel:https://store.pine64.org/product/pinephone-lcd-panel-with-touch-screen/is the issue that it's got too much stuff attached to it, rather than being just an interchangeable display?
(DIR) Post #9wiz863Xkg7CvSt4ZE by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-03T23:46:32Z
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@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @sireebob Pinephone owner here:Mine has no dead pixels.
(DIR) Post #9wjyBQuikpLLggkPaq by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-04T02:34:36Z
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@Truck sure, nobody is saying that zero percent of devices are working-as-intended, and your specific device was not part of why it was necessary to put that notice on their site.Manufacturing edge cases (which is what one hopes this is, rather than a systemic flaw in their hardware usage patterns, for example...) mean rather a lot of devices, by volume, are just fine.Even if only one in several hundred had the flaw, it was significant enough for them to stop accepting returns over it.Which is why manufacturing processes to eliminate this sort of thing exist.
(DIR) Post #9wjyBREDaKwIf9ryz2 by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-04T11:10:41Z
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@eryn I guess my issue here is that you're concerned with dead pixels on an inexpensive device meant for people to test running operating systems on, as an alpha.I have an issue with that.The cost of buying a smartphone, jailbreaking it, and trying to get around the manufacturers traps which are designed to keep invasive operating systems that spy on you on a device is far, far more worrying than some dead pixels.Which, again.My phone doesn't have.It _also_ doesn't have issues with Sony trying to stop my phone from running Sailfish (which my Xperia does) or issues with Samsung firmware blobs preventing me from running a stripped down Android, or issues that other phones and tablets I have (around 6) running postmarketOS directly due to, again, manufacturer attempts to keep me from doing that.I just feel your concern is misplaced.I may also be very grumpy, and "reading into" your comments.
(DIR) Post #9wk0vfrTi9LVHBPMRM by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-04T11:41:24Z
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@eryn Let me put it another way:If you know of another similar project with a similar cost (preferably in Europe, NOT the US, China, Russia, or the UK. Ireland/Scotland are ok. Pro-Brexit = fuck no.) then I would be glad to hear of it.(Yes, one of my issues with Pine is they are US based. But I do not see an alternative to this device at this price point. If you know of one - I would be glad to hear it, and likely will get one for testing/usage.)Non-examples: Fairphone(far more money, is UK based.)Single Board Computers-have these. Do not have display or phone hardware for the cost. Cost includes "finding someone to solder those additional parts."I may have missed something that you DO know of, and yes, I would like to hear it.My pine64 board had issues, so not the biggest fan of Pine; do want a working "altOS phone."(Preferably OpenBSD)
(DIR) Post #9wsnhsD7S0UYXZG6SG by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-08T17:15:07Z
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@Truck (now that we've got interwebs again and can think...)The problem, imo, has nothing to do with dead pixels. It could be the battery, or something with a connector.The problem is that they are attempting to push the onus for the hardware failures onto the end user.My point is, there's a non-gaslight-y way of saying "we picked a bad batch of LCDs or a less-than-quality supplier, here's how we're fixing it for iteration N+1", and communicating remediation (rather than saying "if you buy and you end up with dead pixels it's your own fault") goes a long way towards that.Maybe their timeline/fixpath is described elsewhere, but I didn't see anything describing, transparently, what they did wrong and how they are planning to fix it.Nowhere in here am I saying that pinephone or their overall efforts are A Bad Thing, my original premise is that until they've got their communication paradigm fixed, being part of the alpha community (especially when I already have a solid, bootloader-unlockable phone in my pocket) is not something that interests me.It's a personal decision, based on their communication habits, and my half-assed analysis of "why are there still displays with dead pixels that aren't getting weeded out by the component-level QA process" notwithstanding.What I *am* saying is that communication is where they are falling down, and falling down in the same ways google/amazon/apple/etc does, of pushing responsibility for the hardware onto the end user.
(DIR) Post #9wsnhsUqO6fbQXYG5A by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T17:25:36Z
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@eryn I disagree with you here; this is my take on WHY they have said that.The 'preorder' and 'kickstarter' type situations have left small companies who are trying to fund things in a bind: they can offer things, but if someone is not satisfied for a small reason - like a _clearly labeled alpha product having small defects_ - then they can go to the credit card company and suck their money right out of their funding. They have no recourse, other than "well, crap, now we don't have the money, AND we don't have the product.I understand this is a CHRONIC issue, and that some folks are using it to essentially get free product. Maybe fewer are getting free product than just pulling funding because "naw, I changed my mind."The issue really is the _platform_ that is being used for getting funding, not the fundee, or the funder.That's my take.
(DIR) Post #9wso1R5G17wkCRuS6i by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T17:29:14Z
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@eryn Now - I don't have anything that shows me that is the case, and yes, this is NOT the same as the kickstarter platform. But I got my first board from them via kickstarter, and knowing how that went (it didn't go well, there were severe miscommunications on the part of Pine) I'll BET they have someone either in a legal capacity or a management capacity (I'm betting legal, brought in by management) who have said it has to go on every page of any alpha or beta products.So I _also_ think this is brought on by being a US company, where everyone has to deal with the inevitable "you're the consumer, and the lawyers say we have to say this to protect ourselves, also, YOU lose protection because you're not us" situation that being a US company brings with it.Now - I'm also not saying they're particularly _good_ at this communication game. They aren't.
(DIR) Post #9wsoRN95HYS9Vy4DJo by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T17:33:54Z
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@eryn But, as a person who thinks the company has a ways to go before they're able to really ... you know, launch a FULL, PROPER product...I just feel the dead pixel thing is nitpicking.There are LOADS of other things they've not done properly.- And my question still stands - If you know of any _similar_ products in this area - with a screen, phone mechanism, booting from mmc and sd, $150 range - let me know. I'd love to try one INSTEAD of this. It's ok but I'd like to try OTHERS as well, as ... I have concerns with Pine.I just haven't _found_ one. (Olimex doesn't make a phone yet, Raspberry pi "yeah right, with that bootloader and ecosystem? puh-lease, China devices: linked far too closely to Android... )
(DIR) Post #9wsodlJxDzTpy53jt2 by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T17:36:05Z
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@eryn And if that 'nitpicking' came off harsh: It wasn't meant to, I am glad someone else has concerns about the Pinephone, and Pine... I just... can't throw down with _that_ complaint.And I'm glad you came back with your further explanation as well.I hope that didn't come off has very harsh. My day has been... another in the 2 month long string of extremely trying days with this work project and the ends of my nerves are very fried. If that transferred via the comment - please forgive me for not finding the right word.
(DIR) Post #9wspSbgGpGC6q3k4HI by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T17:45:19Z
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@eryn rereading this:Yes. The ENTIRE problem I have had with Pine has been centered around communication.This - this I can agree with, 100%.I should probably put that request for another phone type thing out there to others, too... though I just don't have time right now, but in 2 weeks, I'll be on break, and ... well things are SUPPOSED to be "normal" again sometime? I... hope so.
(DIR) Post #9wswktT48FhItbETtw by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-08T18:02:53Z
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@Truck yeah.My big point was that *how* they communicate this to potential purchasers really sucks, and I've heard...problematic things...about their overall communications paradigm.Dead pixels, on early hardware, regrettable but meh.Dead pixels, that is communicated in a pre-defensive, lacking-remediation way...this is a *huge* problem for me, because it's just the same mistakes being made by all the other companies that are big enough to have items in their shop, so my expected experience is on par with any other tech company...which is to say, very low.I'm not "not purchasing" a pinephone because of dead pixels, I'm doing it because the company does communications poorly, and it bodes poorly for their long term plans.
(DIR) Post #9wswktifCGArfyWwDI by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T19:07:05Z
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@eryn _IF_ I hear of any other projects that are similar, I'll ping you.I do hope we see someone else take up the reins, but... well I don't know, in these days of Covid.
(DIR) Post #9wsx3UvzZSvcJCdMZ6 by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-08T17:54:17Z
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@Truck honestly, this is why I've been building an SBC luggable for the last few years (see https://darkpi.com/).Hardware is relatively easy.Hardware aesthetics are less easy (especially in compact-and-pretty-enough package for the "smartphone" fans).But it's the software and updating and security processes therein that are the really hard engineering problem.And tbqh, there's nothing consumer-ready...even my personal "better option" (the #DarkPi) is in pieces between the office, our hardware engineer, and my homelab-away-from-home.Hardware bits aside, this month has been the kickoff for rebuilding everything from the ground up in #NixOS (from bog-standard Raspbian (err, raspiOS or whatever, it's been our prototype platform since the beginning) & shell scripts), because declarative package management solves most of the problems with reproduceably useful systems.We're focusing on facilitating secure communications/collaboration inside our organization (see https://gitea.com/nuneco/irregular.team/wiki/secure_collaboration for our functional requirements), and I expect it to take another 1-3 years before it's consumer-testing-ready.Part of my point here is that you're right...there are no good options out there, and my particular whinge (modular parts would have fixed Pinephone's lcd problem at the component level, like so much other monolithic BS) is older than Project Ara.Idk if that gave a bit of perspective, but that's where I'm at with this.
(DIR) Post #9wsx3WUPmy3d8FkMrI by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-08T19:10:26Z
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@eryn That's similar to why I got a beta reform2 (ships friday, yay!) - but also, because I know the fellow behind it has commitment to multiple things I am interested in (like the zz9000 board for my Amiga, which he also made and supports.)UNLIKE some other companies, he's communicating properly.A friend is about to try building his own machine, likely using an olimex - I myself have 2 olimex lime server things I need to spend time with...maybe one will turn into a laptop/luggable. Unsure. We'll see.All I know is there are options OUTSIDE of the box. Always have been.
(DIR) Post #9wtTqZMZ5it8laVR6u by eryn@toot.cat
2020-07-08T22:57:37Z
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@Truck okayso, conversations about pinephone aside, what do you actually...want...from a portable device? Do you mind if I pick your brain about that?
(DIR) Post #9wtTqZdw38mbdSdJBY by Truck@icosahedron.website
2020-07-09T01:17:52Z
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@eryn Sure.What I want is: Unix; the ability to do code for my older devices (c64 and Amiga, some others) and also maintain servers. It should have connectivity, but not be required.It should have good terminal usage. It should be able to be connected to a display as well as be readable (I have bad eyes) and be able to be connected to a keyboard (I don't like touch keyboards/touch phone things. And I do NOT want a trackpad. Awful things that close my work when I'm trying to use them.)I have... many already. All intel. I want ARM, possibly RISC at some point in future.I want multiple booting, so I can use BSD, some Linux, and other things that are not Windows and not osX.I want to be able to build things with it/them.I prefer minimal and functional but can be swayed by well designed and good looking, or just esoteric.Oh and it should play the music I've bought, or have (sid, mod, xm, etc.)
(DIR) Post #9wtVvVNhWRgxm2WDj6 by KitsuneAlicia@octodon.social
2020-07-03T20:40:09Z
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@xj9 @sireebob @eryn That said, given Pine's low resources, offering replacement screens would probably be hard to do, but they should still look into a way to do it because PayPal disputes still seem like they're going a bit too far.
(DIR) Post #9wtVvVZkndKiNQ9qVs by brad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-09T01:41:11.928316Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@KitsuneAlicia @xj9 @sireebob @eryn My PinePhone has no dead pixels. I think they're just being careful. Also they *do* sell replacement screens.https://store.pine64.org/product-category/pinephone-spare-parts/
(DIR) Post #9wtWQfkt0CCMvQE15s by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-07-09T01:46:49.815010Z
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@brad @KitsuneAlicia @eryn @sireebob how hard is it to replace? do you know?
(DIR) Post #9wtXNX0JBNhsrwVMEy by brad@weeaboo.space
2020-07-09T01:57:29.042375Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@xj9 @KitsuneAlicia @eryn @sireebob I'm not too sure myself, but @martijnbraam has a video on putting together the parts for an earlier version of the phone. Could give an idea.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyeD1sfQNoM
(DIR) Post #9wtdfgekdLjnk6Si3M by PublicNuisance@fosstodon.org
2020-07-09T02:56:09Z
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@sireebob Prepare your path to flee to. Ubuntu Touch; Manjaro Arm; KDE Neon; PostMarket OS; plus many more. Never been so many FOSS mobile options before.
(DIR) Post #9wtdfhsc5IQ7XNxIIa by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-09T03:07:56.101196Z
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@PublicNuisance yes, kind of! i'm hoping those take off. the kind of software that is being blocked from running by overzealous safetynet enforcement isn't usually even available on the other platforms, though. you can stick with android and just not flash google's apps/services, but i do want other platforms to take off. it's just pretty slowgoing
(DIR) Post #9wuLnCQlI95WIcJLuK by martijnbraam@fosstodon.org
2020-07-09T11:22:15Z
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@eryn @KitsuneAlicia @sireebob Every webshop you've ever ordered a laptop, phone or monitor from will have a similar line in their terms of service, in this case it's just not hidden. From all the pine devices I have here there's not a single pixel defect though, because just like you said, it has become uncommon.
(DIR) Post #9wvBFQrIL02sojwQxE by Nofb64000@social.tcit.fr
2020-07-09T06:25:07Z
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@sireebob@e_mydata hi is /e/ os impacted?
(DIR) Post #9wvBFRSs5I6ShHWRWa by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-09T20:58:48.046354Z
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@Nofb64000 @e_mydata /e/ doesn't use google services at all afaik, so whatever apps are utilizing safetynet don't work on it anyway. anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
(DIR) Post #9wvBL1kCcpYOfEIAZk by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-09T20:59:55.752385Z
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@Nofb64000 @e_mydata /e/ doesn't use google services at all afaik, so whatever apps are depending on successful safetynet checks (banking apps, pokemon go, etc) don't work on it anyway, nor would they have worked on lineage os minus google services. anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
(DIR) Post #9wvBOhQE7n34nIhR5s by sireebob@nothing.town
2020-07-09T21:00:35.444168Z
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@Nofb64000 @e_mydata /e/ doesn't use google services at all afaik, so whatever apps are depending on successful safetynet checks (banking apps, pokemon go, etc) don't work on it anyway, nor would they have worked on lineage os minus google services. anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.(sorry for reposting multiple times, pleroma is weird)