Post 9vzRC5zekzAGaAlqEa by garbados@toot.cat
(DIR) More posts by garbados@toot.cat
(DIR) Post #9vzRC5zekzAGaAlqEa by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-11T23:45:33Z
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cabal zine https://substack.net/zine/cabal.svg #p2p #foss
(DIR) Post #9vzRC6KDWXbxbwOGHY by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-11T23:58:34Z
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cabal is a p2p chat program built on the hypercore protocol, which you might otherwise know as the dat protocol. it's in implementation hell right now, but i've had a number of conversations with the developers about their commitment to mature moderation controls, which in a p2p environment is architecturally very difficult *but not impossible* so i'm glad that these folks are tackling that work sooner rather than later.
(DIR) Post #9vzRC6YOfoxCJv1aNs by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-12T00:14:39Z
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cabal resembles IRC or Discord, and under the hood uses a whole lot of arcana to accomplish that. peers maintain a log of their own messages, and then gossip those around the cabal, so that the user sees this log-of-logs as a single chat log. no blockchain!moderation comes in at two levels: hiding messages from other peers (muting) and refusing to gossip their messages (blocking). moderation actions are not gossiped, so you won't get propagated blocks or anything, but that could be implemented as a protocol extension in a non-breaking way. moderation actions can be timed, and have descriptions that help contextualize why you took action. this is important!in fact, these controls were merged only five days ago! https://github.com/cabal-club/cabal-desktop/pull/259
(DIR) Post #9vzRC6mZp6IR1teuUC by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-12T00:20:50Z
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ah, i was wrong -- moderation actions *can* be gossiped. you can designate other users as "moderators" or "admins" that cause your client to enact the moderation actions they enact. this is *subjective* so nobody is everybody's admin, but admin labor can still be organized and its fruits distributed. this is an intriguing model that i think has a lot of potential.
(DIR) Post #9vzWRApxWw9jieFBpo by bb010g@weirder.earth
2020-06-12T00:36:30Z
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@garbados so, tackling the IRC persistence problem not by having the server log, and log actions explicitly, and encouraging you to ask the server, but having clients continue to log, but without their own bouncers, and with a way to meld logs?Can you modify your own logs to add novel data (probably), and, if log data is stored on other's computers during the gossip process, can log data from large and/or active rooms be deduplicated when possible?
(DIR) Post #9vzWRJcor9zcyVAK6S by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-12T00:40:20Z
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@bb010g can you rephrase? i can't parse what you're asking
(DIR) Post #9vzWRJoAAz4DXgTNmi by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-06-12T01:22:59Z
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@garbados @bb010g That is a good question. What happens when somebody edits his local log?
(DIR) Post #9vzY7BAolm86sZatYO by garbados@toot.cat
2020-06-12T01:41:53Z
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@publius @bb010g you can't. it's part of the arcana of append-only logs. if you tried, every other peer would know it and reject it.
(DIR) Post #9vzny6Zk5t8vHMwndQ by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-06-12T04:39:27Z
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@garbados @bb010g How reliable is that, really, & what are the processing costs which come along with it?
(DIR) Post #9vzoiEuXR38iS4fn7I by bb010g@weirder.earth
2020-06-12T04:47:51Z
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@publius @garbados I'd imagine it's vulnerable to normal majority attacks? If an attacker controls the majority of your peers and says the chat is going some way, you're stuck unless cryptographic proof of a peer originating a piece of a log is provided. Or, you'd have to choose peers to trust in case of conflict over others. This is probably where Matrix's Olm & Megaolm come in really handy?