Post 9vmAhfwTfa6MBSZmAC by FreePietje@x0f.org
(DIR) More posts by FreePietje@x0f.org
(DIR) Post #9vlnBHwR4Q5PXD8zei by onepict@chaos.social
2020-06-05T10:00:17Z
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Government's shouldn't expect people to allow mass surveillance to be performed on citizens if public servants aren't prepared to let us have the same amount of scrutiny on them. To anyone who says that you "Have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide", I say your privilege is showing. Anyone who says that we should all be monitored for our safety day in , day out, 24/7, I have one thing to say."You first."
(DIR) Post #9vlnBI9uGKrUCzRkeW by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T10:24:38Z
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@onepict Re: "Have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide"I think a better argument would be to urge people to look up the origin of that quote and if they'd still want to use it then.https://english.stackexchange.com/a/217203Or be more blunt/direct about it and say that it's (mostly) attributed to Goebbels (1933), Minister of Propaganda of the Nazis
(DIR) Post #9vlpo08zNIEzXSbSmu by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T10:50:27Z
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Indeed, Of course stealing property does hurt people, may not be physically but emotionally, which you can't see.I was given an analogy for emotional damage done by abuse, take a flat piece of paper, screw it up in a ball, un fold and try and remove the creases.The creases, can't be removed and represent are the hurt people are feeling inside, they can never go away. This may be simplistic, it is designed to be used with children.
(DIR) Post #9vlq6j5b0YNA98weBc by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T10:55:39Z
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I agree, Whole generations here were taught that the Empire was Devine, as if we have some god given right to invade other countries and control them.But yes we teach history and leave out the not so nice bits, kinda of like what I said about WWI and conscription.
(DIR) Post #9vlrJIVfF189QjhF9U by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T11:10:58Z
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@onepict Agreed that it's largely (too) abstract for most. I think we should continue to draw the parallels to fascism, but it's not enough.That's why I deliberately added "Minister of Propaganda of the Nazis".It doesn't get more direct then that.I also think it's a good counter-attack. Usually, 'we' try to explain that we (all) do have things to hide.Why not turn it around and let them explain why I/we should agree with the Minister of *Propaganda* of the Nazis?
(DIR) Post #9vlsUm2nsB8kAZEWhM by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T11:24:14Z
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@zleap @onepict Yep, historical revisionism is quite widespread.In .nl we call the 17th century the Golden Century and a former prime minister once mentioned the "VOC mentality" as something good. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company)I learned through House M.D. (TV series) that .nl played a massive role in the slave trade 😮 Kids nowadays do learn about the darker sides though :)Jeremy Scahill in Intercepted talks about US historical revisionism on a 'regular' basis.
(DIR) Post #9vlt5BkRme7YJW0kZk by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:24:40Z
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This is why I have an issue with people saying re MS . FB et al 'it is free, because you are the product' well disroot / fediverse is also free but users are not the product, we end up with a conflicting message.
(DIR) Post #9vlt5DBQRpIMlTdoGW by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T11:30:49Z
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@zleap @onepict Someone once made a reference/comparison with a DDOS attack (IIRC).It takes far more time to explain the 'nuances' (and righteousness) of our point of view. Which then often is 'countered' by a simplistic one-liner, which then costs us again a long time to counter that.That's why I like my counter 'attack'.
(DIR) Post #9vltnnFvgxDbNr0R1c by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:38:48Z
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I am just not very good at speaking in public and feel i get rounded on sometimes. I can't answer every question and feel people are cynical and treat free software or software freedom or the fediverse as a joke along with those who use it.
(DIR) Post #9vltunZQv8h8O1T8gC by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:16:28Z
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Indeed,
(DIR) Post #9vltunr9rEsBGzlIJ6 by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:31:32Z
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It does seem fitting that 2020 is the anniversary of the mayflower, where people set of for a new and better life in the new world, escaping persecution at the hands of the British, I wonder what they would make of the US at this point in time.
(DIR) Post #9vlu8FSsWP02fCogFc by maxmustermann@shitposter.club
2020-06-05T11:42:40.099259Z
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@zleap @onepict They would declare it a satanic hell hole and tell you are all going to hell, because they were radical reformed. Oopsy daisy.
(DIR) Post #9vluG7fVON3qngTegS by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:43:56Z
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So I could answer that I use free software / fediverse because I want a better world.
(DIR) Post #9vlv4GmlljBXYWmr8y by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T11:53:05Z
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@zleap @onepict The discussion *is* hard.People are cynical and/or feel there is nothing they can do about it. And they don't feel/see/experience the harm as much as we do.Another important factor is that it's invisible for most. What we have now is far worse then what the Stasi did, yet, the Stasi is universally seen as bad.The instant gratification mentality (gratis NOW) is also a disease. They may feel the harm at some point in the future, but that's all theoretical/irrelevant to them.
(DIR) Post #9vlvYO9gvtrL6Gs1Zo by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T11:39:52Z
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I can't wait to throw my idea in this tread at someone regarding their beloved Facebookhttps://social.isurf.ca/display/c443a55c-295e-d935-5fbc-80a422304363
(DIR) Post #9vlvYPeDNtrxjE9unA by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T11:58:28Z
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@zleap @onepict That's a dangerous route to take imo.Do you use Tor (Browser)? Tor and the 'Dark Web' (I hate that term) are likely used more for those kind of activities. You'd like instantly lose that argument.It's also the most common 'argument' against any type of encryption "Think of the children!".
(DIR) Post #9vlwB5181PSB2QJYnI by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T12:05:27Z
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I don't think the developers of Tor like the term 'dark web' either,So what do I draw parallels with, if they use facebook are the just happy to ignore the BBC and other respots cited in that, that highlight the extend to which these services allow child abuse / grooming are you ok with that. By boycotting facebook you can send a very clear message that you are not happy with what is going on.
(DIR) Post #9vlwjdKKxtYdIHm97Q by xair@totallylegit.site
2020-06-05T12:11:49.603966Z
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@zleap @FreePietje @onepict most tor traffic is verifiably normal, it's just normal people going to websites like Facebook or viewing news in oppressed nations. The actual amount of bad actors on tor is quite low, I wish people didn't keep assuming tor is just a spooky illegal network or something because it's basically the opposite
(DIR) Post #9vlwkDFzNXTCjE1BL6 by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T12:08:03Z
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The NCA here tried to argue anyone who uses Linux is a potential cyber criminal, in a discussion at the tech jam I said we are capable of running around a field, removing clothing before having a shower, that does not mean we will run around a field naked, despite being capable of doing so.
(DIR) Post #9vlx6Qnxgjpn7LVFy4 by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T12:15:52Z
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@zleap @onepict Dark is commonly associated with nefarious.Crime has always existed and will always exist. Banning a certain technology will not make the crime go away; criminals will simply switch to other tools.Facebook's business model is abusing people('s desire to connect to other people) and they sell any and all information about you to anyone who pays so their shareholders get richer.I will not support/use a system that (is designed to) abuses others.
(DIR) Post #9vlxKdA2XsNLUebJYW by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T12:18:24Z
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Like Tarkin said on Starwars"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"
(DIR) Post #9vm99mUwgkfCiUyLNQ by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T14:30:57Z
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@xair @zleap @onepict I don't know whether it's verifiable (and whether that would be desirable), but I'm quite sure you're correct.It's use is most likely reflective of its users and/or general population. By far, most are not criminal and some are.It's most often for political reasons cast in a certain light.I'm sure there are criminals (besides bankers) who wear a suit and tie, yet, for some odd reason, society doesn't cast people wearing suit+tie in a bad light. 🤔
(DIR) Post #9vmAASUydDgKvusEwC by xair@totallylegit.site
2020-06-05T14:42:20.360902Z
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@FreePietje @zleap @onepict well tor has traffic metrics, they're available online for free and anyone can view them to verify that the network isn't being used for only illegal things... There is a lot of legitimate looking traffic there, the way tor works allows you to do certain things like view network connection statistics and usage without compromising user security in most casesI would encourage people to read the tor project documentation more :)https://metrics.torproject.org/
(DIR) Post #9vmAhfnGDqjFisGPnU by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T12:11:52Z
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BTW, please feel free to add comments to that thread, i linked to, if I can work out how to make that argument and hit the right note with people it may work.However recent events with facebook allowing those trump comments, to me say the issues with facebook extend to other areas too, are people happy for their network to be a platform for racism, at least here we can block such nodes or users. or we chose to sign up to nodes which either do or don't block racism.
(DIR) Post #9vmAhfwTfa6MBSZmAC by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T14:48:16Z
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@zleap @onepict It's a very tricky situation. Where do you draw the line between Freedom of Speech and something *you* think should be banned/censored? And who should be the arbiter of that? Also, would that solve the problem or just move somewhere else?IMO, if you use a platform, you have to abide by their ToS; if you don't agree with it, don't use it.You can only choose what you listen to and what you spend your time on.You can't and probably shouldn't want to make that choice for others.
(DIR) Post #9vmB5iUhpgoT3639NY by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T14:52:37Z
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But on the fediverse, if someone posts something say another user considers racist, the person who finds that offensive can block the poster. So the power is in the hands of the user to act.Yes sure about TOS well some nodes allow things that others block you choose the most suitable node then. May not be perfect but putting responsibility back in the hands of the user is a good idea.We still have the content filter thing that will hide sensitive content and the user chooses to click and read / view it. Another good idea.
(DIR) Post #9vmBeRw7O10zpaQwW8 by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T14:58:54Z
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@xair @zleap @onepict What is 'illegal' and what is not, differs per jurisdiction. And whether something should be classified as 'illegal' is (and should) be up for discussion.But I was initially thinking about traffic that doesn't leave the Tor network. The first page I saw when I clicked on 'Traffic' showed metrics related to *Exit* nodes and ofc you can measure/classify that.
(DIR) Post #9vmC2WCLC2VnzxUxwe by FreePietje@x0f.org
2020-06-05T15:03:15Z
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@zleap @onepict I'd guess that one can block another user on FB as well...I like the controls the fediverse puts in my/our hands. And that's also where I think the control should lie.What I like even more is that the platform does NOT decide what I (can) see, which is very much the case with FB (and Twitter, etc)
(DIR) Post #9vmCeHFpCbHQeg8It6 by xair@totallylegit.site
2020-06-05T15:10:08.836647Z
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@FreePietje @zleap @onepict ah yeah fair enough, I mean I think they offer statistics on relays and onion services too if you're more interested in that haha
(DIR) Post #9vmCfJ3dyxZ2XQvTmq by zleap@social.isurf.ca
2020-06-05T15:08:21Z
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Exactly, why I like it.