Post 9uzLPvb6qgFkvNqmZM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
(DIR) More posts by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
(DIR) Post #9uwMMkSXbj3lxxQLOS by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T14:49:54Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
Yo yo yo #Lemmy is super cool! It's a #Fediverse clone of #Reddit
(DIR) Post #9uwMvU3WaSuzE8HmS0 by stux@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:00:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@realcaseyrollins Is it up yet? 🙂 and open source?
(DIR) Post #9uwN1MKSEEk7030RNI by stux@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:01:22Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@realcaseyrollins Found it, and i want it!https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy
(DIR) Post #9uwN2CToKh7mk7meB6 by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:01:30Z
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@stux Yes, and yes!dev.lemmy.mlhttps://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy
(DIR) Post #9uwN5ZLXlthCX0WUoC by stux@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:02:07Z
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@realcaseyrollins omg.. why is there no stand-alone installation
(DIR) Post #9uwNAO4B8cSwzjhLkm by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:03:00Z
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@stux Not quite sure...maybe reach out to @LemmyDev?
(DIR) Post #9uwNYHzTNbHR6ItWAi by alex@gleasonator.com
2020-05-11T15:07:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stux @realcaseyrollins Ohh this is what @wjmaggos was talking about. I hadn't seen it before.
(DIR) Post #9uwNeQPUzJt6x3zfUm by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-11T15:08:24Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos It's SO cool!
(DIR) Post #9uyZEnvIX5Gy72KwYy by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:27:24Z
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@alex @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux Warning about #Lemmy: The Lemmy staff has censored the discussion about censorhip: https://dev.lemmy.ml/post/31800 <- that thread is directly reachable but they've removed it from the timeline. When you read the thread it becomes clear that Lemmy is staffed by alt right ppl who intend to censor even more than #Reddit does.
(DIR) Post #9uyZfpuXFaVq60s03s by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T16:32:31Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @realcaseyrollins @stux when it's truly federated, that would become impossible, right?
(DIR) Post #9uyZucuvqIhA8n6lUW by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:35:09Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @realcaseyrollins @alex Federating doesn't solve the problem b/c users naturally tend to crowd onto 1 or 2 nodes (everyone wants to be where all the ppl are). And since Lemmy has no transparency feature to may bad mods stand out, users won't even know when censorship is over-used. They're setting it up to be like a filter bubble.
(DIR) Post #9uyaJy1eV0X0qZKoZk by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:39:47Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @realcaseyrollins @alex Federating doesn't solve the problem b/c users naturally tend to crowd onto 1 or 2 nodes (everyone wants to be where all the ppl are). And since Lemmy has no transparency feature to make bad mods stand out, users won't even know when censorship is over-used. They're setting it up to be like a filter bubble.
(DIR) Post #9uyaLoX8lHSJzEwZU0 by alex@gleasonator.com
2020-05-12T16:40:07Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@wjmaggos @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @stux Exactly. If someone else uses the software and moderates it how they want, they can't prevent it (as long as they're using a FOSS license).On another note, I've been seeing software projects try to apply licenses like "the anti-fascist license" lmao: https://github.com/jamiebuilds/anti-fascist-mit-license/blob/master/LICENSE Probably wouldn't stand up in court as it's completely subjective.
(DIR) Post #9uyabx1Az5fEvygg8O by Ox@dickkickextremist.xyz
2020-05-12T16:43:04.683163Z
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@alex @wjmaggos @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @stuxFascist" can be understood as any entity which supports radical authoritariannationalism. For example: Donald Trump is a fascist; if you donated to hiscampaign then all rights provided by this license are not granted to you.l o l
(DIR) Post #9uyag02xfJERUCS9GS by Ox@dickkickextremist.xyz
2020-05-12T16:43:48.601842Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @stux @wjmaggos you must provide photo of your Bernie voting slip to use my work
(DIR) Post #9uyasd0uc3pzoaW4HI by alex@gleasonator.com
2020-05-12T16:45:58Z
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@Ox @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux Are you kidding? Bernie is too right-wing. He doesn't want justice for queer black womxn of color
(DIR) Post #9uybfBQ9zUWUQXTjWa by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:33:04Z
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@stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @alex the censorship isn't bad now because the project doesn't have traction yet. But as it grows the moderators are actually encouraged to do the most repressive types of censorship & there are no controls for users to detect it.
(DIR) Post #9uybfBanLx1uxWSE6K by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T16:54:50Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoI'm active there now and I'm not seeing any alt right people. I think there are some never trumpers there tho.I mean, it's just a test instance. When it gets bigger, someone wild make a free speech instance.@stux @wjmaggos @alex
(DIR) Post #9uybhXDRvd6ebOedyy by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:37:41Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex@gleasonator.com @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux That thread says *deleted*, not removed, which means the creator of that post deleted it. It will say removed if the mod removed it, and it will show up in the public modlog. 2ndly we're not alt-right, we're leftists, take a look at our code of conduct: https://github.com/dessalines/lemmy/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
(DIR) Post #9uybl0Li4ISlpHAmCu by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:38:13Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux I literally can't stop people from deleting their own posts.
(DIR) Post #9uybl0WhPRFmNMJYKu by jeder@pleroma.jeder.pl
2020-05-12T16:39:46.245752Z
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@LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux i think you should specify wherever something is removed by OP or by anyone else
(DIR) Post #9uybl0jSdzSh0wHkEC by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:45:34Z
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@jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @wjmaggos yes, but that's still insufficient. By simply printing "[removed]", users can't see what content was removed. And by pulling it out of the timeline users can't even see that there's a removal to speak of. IOW, no transparency.
(DIR) Post #9uybl0wZrDxBfcQDfk by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:47:37Z
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@wjmaggos @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins @stux @jeder Removed posts need to be quarantined in a separate place so users can evaluate whether a moderator is abusing their power. Lemmy is designed to *hide* bad moderators so #Censorship will proliferate.
(DIR) Post #9uybl1GQfPpifBi4cC by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:50:17Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux @jeder Both of your points are wrong.1) Removed posts are still visible from the direct link, just not from the community or front pages.2) Every moderation action is public, and in the modlog.Why are you spreading this misinformation? I had nothing to do with that person deleting their post.
(DIR) Post #9uyblGrUftOV2UANyC by jeder@pleroma.jeder.pl
2020-05-12T16:51:03.459594Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins @stux IMO right now Lemmy just a reddit clone which in turn also probably cloned most its moderating imperfections, just because something cloned a bad thing doesn’t mean it will be always like that.
(DIR) Post #9uybqRyKnIbAwepshM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:52:02Z
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@jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @wjmaggos that's true, but the Code of Conduct shows their vision -- the direction they intend to take the project.
(DIR) Post #9uybqSAO4UEvY2TVU8 by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:53:42Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos I fully agree, I hope people do read our code of conduct to see what direction we want to take Lemmy:> We are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all, regardless of level of experience, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, nationality, or other similar characteristic.
(DIR) Post #9uybqSM5Mzb68Jwqie by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T16:56:52Z
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@LemmyDevAlso, if you don't like the code of conduct, fork it and make a new one. I assume others will do so in the future.@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jeder @stux @wjmaggos
(DIR) Post #9uybreO67RAzjzSV84 by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:52:25Z
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@jeder @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux Their point is entirely wrong, every single moderation action is in the public modlog, this was a really important difference we wanted from reddit.
(DIR) Post #9uybw8ET6CelSd5jiS by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:57:54Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @wjmaggos @stux leftists are pro-civil liberties. The overzealous pro-censorship Code of Conduct is charactoristic of the alt right
(DIR) Post #9uyc0YBmXDJV7dwSZM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:50:06Z
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@wjmaggos @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins @stux @jeder Another transparency problem with #Lemmy: the code of conduct calls for enforcing secret/undisclosed rules ("Remarks that moderators find inappropriate, whether listed in the code of conduct or not, are also not allowed.")
(DIR) Post #9uyc0YQJfAwJqik4Dw by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T16:58:42Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoI know this. Again, I'm not expecting a perfect code of conduct. This is a test instance! When it gets big, others will makes better instances, but for now, it really ain't that bad.@wjmaggos @LemmyDev @stux @jeder
(DIR) Post #9uyc55o7U5wgXv2Xq4 by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:41:04Z
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@jeder @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux Its from reddit terminology, it will say deleted if the creator deleted it, but removed if a mod or admin removed it. I'd have to think of a better way to denote this if this isn't clear enough.
(DIR) Post #9uyc567yIHpDXUKOmW by jeder@pleroma.jeder.pl
2020-05-12T16:42:21.413085Z
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@LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux tbh i never really liked reddit terminology since deleted and removed are synonyms, so i was thinking about “deleted by author/OP” and “deleted by moderation”
(DIR) Post #9uyc5YcQMeozu2n78S by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:59:37Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @jeder @LemmyDev consider the rule: "If a moderator bans someone and you think it was unjustified, please take it up with that moderator, or with a different moderator, in private. Complaints about bans in-channel are not allowed." It's an anti-whistleblower move to direct whistleblowers back to the person they are blowing the wistle on. It's also a rt-wing conservative move. Libs embrace whistle
(DIR) Post #9uycD41fzWJdL1BLYO by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:00:57Z
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@realcaseyrollins @jeder @stux @LemmyDev @wjmaggos a whistle-blowing mechanism needs to be baked-in. It's not just a change of rules, but there actually needs to be a mechanism where users can call out bad moderators for all to see, so others know to avoid a channel.
(DIR) Post #9uycM3mkFvvTCIUIka by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:02:35Z
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@Ox"Donald Trump is a fascist" 😂😂😂https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism@wjmaggos @alex @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux
(DIR) Post #9uycaTPFnIKmiKNAFk by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T16:55:17Z
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@LemmyDev @stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @jeder i've never seen this public modlog.. wherever it's hiding, it needs to be in the UI where users can see it
(DIR) Post #9uycaTdQwZg1QJ0UM4 by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:05:11Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @stux @wjmaggos @jeder https://dev.lemmy.ml/modlog
(DIR) Post #9uycjZpJIEIPEStwAa by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T16:56:06Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos We aren't an "anti-censorship" platform, this should be evident by us hard-coding a slur filter to prevent bigots from participating.We **will** ban bigots from Lemmy whenever they're found.If you want a censorship free platform, go to voat, or gab w/ the rest of the nazis.
(DIR) Post #9uycjZzEhKEfjFXrdo by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:06:50Z
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@LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jeder @stux @wjmaggos Wait, wait...YOU HARD CODED BANS ON "SLURS"?I mean I suppose it's fixable with a fork, but still.
(DIR) Post #9uycmneaLCYMz7QCDg by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:07:25Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @wjmaggos @stux That's not true. Both are against civil liberties.
(DIR) Post #9uycsOvFCj3o1GstrU by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:08:26Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @stux @jeder @LemmyDev Only if they like the what the whistleblower has to say.Fascism is as common on the left as it is on the right.
(DIR) Post #9uycxzqHMeGnyMEKnY by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:05:27Z
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@wjmaggos @LemmyDev @stux @jeder @realcaseyrollins since the current core #Lemmy devs have a code of conduct that /prohibits/ in-channel whistle-blowing, it's clear that whistle-blowing will be repressed. Then what happens if you fork Lemmy and add it? certainly it wouldn't interoperate with a network that opposes #whistleblowing
(DIR) Post #9uycy03kYZ2se8X5nM by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:09:25Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @LemmyDev @stux @jeder It could theoretically federate; they would need to block the federation on their end, though.
(DIR) Post #9uyd0Oizp3yfiuy7dI by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:09:53Z
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@realcaseyrollins @stux @wjmaggos @alex if you think liberals are "against civil liberties", then we need to do away with labels b/c I find quite the opposite. Certainly I have a problem with Lemmy's direction to go against civil liberties, which is my main problem.
(DIR) Post #9uydeXEZbXYvhKsTGy by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T17:17:08Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @stux @alex check out Moral Foundations Theory for the best explanation of what left (progressive) vs right (conservative) means. liberal & libertarian are more on the control axis, though everything overlaps. people on the left can be very authoritarian, but that would be antithetical to liberals & libertarians (who differ from each other as well).
(DIR) Post #9uye5jv4Y3LirNjDai by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:22:03Z
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@wjmaggos @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux @alex Ohhhh, you mean the mainstream left. "Liberal" and "leftist" have come to refer to two different groups: "liberals" are more traditional liberals (the real ones imho), and "leftists" (what many people mean when they say "liberal") are far left or progressive. You'll find lots of socialists or anarchists on that side of the deep end.
(DIR) Post #9uye7iAu0QVC1o4aCe by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:14:11Z
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@alex @wjmaggos @stux @realcaseyrollins If you consider US politics, socially liberal democrats do not compromise on any civil liberties, with perhaps gun rights being a slight exception (I say slight b/c most dems want gun control not full gun prohibition).
(DIR) Post #9uyfKenrx6FBI42Iy0 by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T17:35:56Z
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@realcaseyrollins @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux @alex yes, many use "liberal" as you describe. many who identify as leftist also use it for more traditional liberals to attack them. Like "sellout" or brainwashed by MSM etc. and then libertarians will call themselves "classical liberals".All too confusing imho. I think "liberal" should be more thought of in the vein of someone who values what you learn in a "liberal arts" education. culture more than politics. Integrity, curiosity, empathy.
(DIR) Post #9uyfU85YRKAwitpDWq by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T17:37:40Z
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@wjmaggos @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux @alex Integrity and curiousity can be found on the right, although curiosity is left mostly to the fringes.Empathy, not so much (although I think it's on the rise with the #Coronavirus predicament everybody put themselves in).
(DIR) Post #9uyfei0FlVid0QOFLE by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:38:27Z
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@LemmyDev @jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos I just saw the modlog for the 1st time. That certainly helps to expose abuses of power. But it needs to be more prominent and filterable. Someone considering subscribing should be able to easily see just modlogs for that community before subscribing.
(DIR) Post #9uygFepUWlNlsTyV8a by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T17:46:15Z
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@realcaseyrollins @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @stux @alex we all struggle with all of it a lot of the time. Haidt's MFT rings very true for me on how the left vs right see the world. It makes a lot of sense when you think about how growing up in different situations could change what perspectives we internalize as normal/justified.
(DIR) Post #9uyh8VIRfklOErfdJ2 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:56:09Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos i find it bizarre to hear someone say integrity can be found on the right. If so, it's very hard to find. This may vary globally, but specifically in the US the republicans have a track record of most sneaky under-handed tactics imaginable & certainly the sheer volume of false statements made by Trump (amid continued loyal support) ensures there's no discrepency here.
(DIR) Post #9uyi79MhpKIVsua7xw by LemmyDev@mastodon.social
2020-05-12T17:39:59Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jeder @stux @realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos That also is already done. Its on the sidebar of **every single community page**.https://dev.lemmy.ml/modlog/community/2
(DIR) Post #9uyi7VPdr5iaGO7mb2 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T17:41:01Z
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@wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins @stux @jeder @LemmyDev as I was browsing the modlog, I noticed that Dessalines removed community "furry". Was that for real, or just a test? It seems to discriminate unfairly against a group, and note that the code of conduct welcomes "gender identity and expression, sexual orientation" etc.
(DIR) Post #9uyiQjLyFR2z0BZgMi by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T18:10:40Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos I somewhat disagree. While there are many shills to be found on the right, many Republicans have more integrity than Trump, notably Ted Cruz & Rand Paul. The more center-right individuals like Lindsey Graham are the ones more prone to the under-handed tactics you describe.
(DIR) Post #9uyiTNOSLoTtlNzz0a by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:02:07Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @alex @realcaseyrollins When you consider voter suppression tactics that republicans do, like requiring gov-issued photo id for voting, dems don't come anywhere near that level of sneaky which scraps integrity in the most blatant way. That is, they use a false rationale like "to stop voter fraud", the deception of which can't be done with integrity.
(DIR) Post #9uyiTNaVd07eMldbnM by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T18:11:08Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @stux @alex Are you unironically calling voter ID voter suppression?
(DIR) Post #9uyif5VIgpKfkqmhTE by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:13:15Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos voter suppression comes in *many* forms, all from the republicans. Requiring gov-issued photo ID is the most classic, most damaging form of voter suppression: https://www.aclu.org/facts-about-voter-suppression
(DIR) Post #9uyihM5zyLsBnD1z6m by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:11:36Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos and then when you consider the conservative churches that still stand behind Trump, despite Trump's contempt & disregard for Christian values.. it reflects badly on all of them w.r.t integrity. They aren't standing behind Trump for his Christian values. It's not just Trump but all of his supporters who have a massive integrity deficit.
(DIR) Post #9uyihMQClE2InsU7bU by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T18:13:39Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos You don't really understand the religious right. They support him because he gets to pick Supreme Court nominees and they hope Pence will influence him to choose ones who will eventually overthrow gay marriage and abortion, both of which are staple policies of Christianity. Anything else they say defending him is typically to rationalize this.
(DIR) Post #9uyivfr9Ifd38IufFQ by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T18:16:16Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos If the votes being suppressed are from people without a voter ID, what's the problem? You should be able to prove you are who you say you are before you vote, and voter ID is the best way to do that.
(DIR) Post #9uyj3RGHRkX8BXN1hQ by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:17:39Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex Americans have a legal Constitutional *right* to vote. At the same time, the US does *not* require having ID docs in any form (issued by the gov or otherwise)
(DIR) Post #9uyjjAo511ihJW5332 by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T18:25:11Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @alex @stux when our system leads to only two viable parties, who you vote for has little connection to integrity imho. vote for the best option that has a chance to win in states that could go either way, but always speak the truth. support #RankedChoiceVoting. Bernie peeps have a lot of questions about the "integrity" of the Democratic party too.
(DIR) Post #9uynEhAN3MhCVyEH7Q by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:18:43Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins the problem is that copious poor people don't have gov-issued IDs. That demographic is largely "D" voters.
(DIR) Post #9uynEhR23Q1VLe1a5Y by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:20:42Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex many of them can't afford the state ID. In some states the ID card is gratis, but not the bus fare to the DMV office, and the cost of getting prereq. docs like birth cert. is never free. And the time off work to get the docs in order is unpaid (it's time they can't afford to not be working)
(DIR) Post #9uynEhcjLvNfvvUvK4 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:22:18Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins the republicans know full well that they depend on voter suppression. Republicans are naturally die-hard voters, and they are also greatly outnumbered, so anything that reduces voter turnout helps the republicans.
(DIR) Post #9uynEhrGTt0Uf0IWye by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:23:07Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex Trump recently and famously said (out loud) that "we can't have everyone voting absentee.. no republican will win an election again".
(DIR) Post #9uynEiDx7X9fnMueLA by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T18:23:20Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins and he was correct.
(DIR) Post #9uynEiaHmV1GudMU9Q by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:04:28Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos Yeah, the optics of that statement weren't great, and people are drawing the wrong conclusion from it, but he speaks the truth. Voter fraud is far more common among Democrats than it is against Republicans.
(DIR) Post #9uynKl67LihqRf8Bgu by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:05:36Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos > many of them can't afford the state IDThe solution here is to make it cheaper, if possible. If it's not, than maybe work on the economy and enact policies that make it easier for folks to rise out of poverty.> the time off work to get the docs in order is unpaidMost jobs are not every day. Typically, a place of employment give their employees Sundays and Saturdays off.The solution is really to make it easier to get an ID.
(DIR) Post #9uynioDRPLUT491abo by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:09:57Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex to be clear, Trump was not saying voter fraud would hurt republicans.. he was saying the high voter turnout as a consequence of absentee ballots would hurt the republican party. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/30/trump-voting-republicans/
(DIR) Post #9uynxQmsnQAakQZgdU by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:12:20Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex It's easy to middle class people to tell the struggling lower classes how to overcome something, but implementing a gov-issued photo ID voting requirement *before* they have obtained their ID is voter suppression.
(DIR) Post #9uyonkDbnTTw4R1K2C by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:22:02Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex Here's #Trump admitting out loud that high voter turnout would ensure republicans lose power: http://qklhadlycap4cnod.onion/watch?v=_r6qXQX5Fnk
(DIR) Post #9uyosAnYup2zfHwu7E by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:22:50Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @stux @alex Do extra fraudulent votes qualify as an increase in voter turnout? I suppose it depends on by "voter turnout" you mean total votes, or the amount of people voting.
(DIR) Post #9uypA5TnQgNCNiFJ3I by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:14:28Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins Voter fraud is not a problem. The number of voter fraud cases are insignificant, so it's a waste of money. It's only reasonable to require photo ID after the count of ppl w/out ID is lower than the number of fraud cases -- and it's a pipe dream to think that would ever happen.
(DIR) Post #9uypA5hcbHQr4aiLbM by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:26:04Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos For someone who is in favor of integrity, I would think you would like to see it in elections."ACVR Legislative Fund found that thousands of Americans were disenfranchised by illegal votes cast on Election Day 2004. For every illegal vote cast and counted on Election Day, a legitimate voter is disenfranchised."https://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Vote_Fraud_Intimidation_Suppression_2004_Pres_Election_v2.pdfhttps://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/new-report-exposes-thousands-illegal-votes-2016-electionhttps://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf
(DIR) Post #9uypTXfspEcrKRAzKK by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:29:37Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @stux @alex I've seen that already, and adressed his remarks in this thread.
(DIR) Post #9uypcFVFkuytZqM7jE by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:31:10Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex you can't exaggerate the voter fraud cases enough to claim denying the vote to hundreds of thousands of citizens who lack ID docs is the position of "integrity". Denying those ppl their lawful right to vote based on exaggerated claims is neither the stance of integrity nor the pro-democracy position
(DIR) Post #9uyrxb2T56jEMICO2a by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:57:26Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @wjmaggos @stux @alex This depends on whether or not you care about non-citizens voting, I guess.
(DIR) Post #9uys9mDvK3V2WSMhDU by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T19:34:30Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins only 31 of the voter fraud cases alleged by republicans since the year 2000 are credible: https://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/blog-post/numbers-voter-fraud
(DIR) Post #9uys9mY86vf9X7opiC by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T19:59:38Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @alex @stux @wjmaggos from a sampling of all the states, there have been 1,071 cases of proven voter fraud.https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf
(DIR) Post #9uywEC0DonUnRwJjcm by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T20:45:16Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos I said: "...hundreds of thousands of *citizens* who lack ID docs ..." So far, we've only discussed citizens. I'm in favor of non-citizens voting too (e.g. we see this in Belgium), but that's a different discussion.
(DIR) Post #9uywePTqKZjimNfptw by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T20:50:00Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex the 1k+ figures are counting the accidental/unintentional cases, like someone who moves and votes in the wrong state. It doesn't have the 5 components of legal "fraud", but falls into the broad and loose "voter fraud" category. In any case, 1,071 cases is still *nothing*. The more biased republicans have tried to claim ~2,600 cases (which is still *nothing*). 3.2 *million* Americans
(DIR) Post #9uywk9X0XdnT3HtOG8 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T20:51:00Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex the 1k+ figures are counting the accidental/unintentional cases, like someone who moves and votes in the wrong state. It doesn't have the 5 components of legal "fraud", but falls into the broad and loose "voter fraud" category. In any case, 1,071 cases is still *nothing*. The more biased republicans have tried to claim ~2,600 cases (which is still *nothing*).
(DIR) Post #9uz0R8F9VQ7hN7j5xw by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T20:51:57Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins 3.2 *million* Americans do not have photo ID. That's *something*. https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=146006217 https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification
(DIR) Post #9uz0R8XaOsruIILohM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T21:00:54Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex So to advocate for strict voter ID laws is to deny *millions* of legitimate voters their voting rights in order to prevent *at most* 2600 cases of fraud. The figures are 4 orders of magnitude against your stance having any legitimacy.
(DIR) Post #9uz0R8jzeknEum9j2O by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T21:32:25Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoThis prompts the question: how come so many citizens don't have photo ID?Is it too expensive? Make it cheaper!Is it too hard to get? Make it easier?What aspect if this is too hard for you to grasp?@wjmaggos @stux @alex
(DIR) Post #9uz0ch8Y73s0mH9Ria by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T21:34:30Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos the problem is you're proposing a sequence of fixes that damages voters' rights. If you want to do this with integrity, you must get photo id in their hands *1st*, and then tighten the voter checks *after*.
(DIR) Post #9uz0jquOBGMP6vwPI0 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T21:35:28Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @alex @realcaseyrollins if you can get 3.2 million ppl voter id *before* implementing the mandate, I have no problem with that.
(DIR) Post #9uz0sW8Smdh7I5ejHU by wjmaggos@culturewar.site
2020-05-12T21:37:20Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins @alex @stux don't we require IDs for other things like getting into public buildings or flying? I'm not big on voter ID and I do think it's intended to disenfranchise etc, but if so, we've been creating a lot of biased systems for millions of people for years.
(DIR) Post #9uz10Pa12bHzH9J8cK by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T21:38:48Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @alex @realcaseyrollins yes, ID is needed to travel, buy booze, and perhaps get into buildings (not sure on that).. and yet 11% of Americans manage to go without those things.
(DIR) Post #9uz12XOYxGYm5qxr5k by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T21:39:12Z
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@wjmaggos @stux @alex @realcaseyrollins yes, ID is needed for air travel, to buy booze, and perhaps get into buildings (not sure on that).. and yet 11% of Americans manage to go without those things.
(DIR) Post #9uz1tL4DWNdfCqcpvM by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-12T21:48:45Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoIt's like voting in that respect, I suppose.@wjmaggos @stux @alex
(DIR) Post #9uz8lGDUN2dHWd3c5Q by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-12T23:05:42Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos The difference is that voting is a Constitutional right essential to having a democracy & essential to other countries respecting the US as a democratic state. Air travel & booze are non-essential privileges (and you don't need ID to be a passenger in a small Cessna or to brew your own beer).
(DIR) Post #9uzIHEy79tHIXAmD3I by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-13T00:52:19Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoThing is, the government isn't at fault if they didn't know that they were citizens, are they?@alex @stux @wjmaggos
(DIR) Post #9uzLPvb6qgFkvNqmZM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T01:27:30Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex i'll need a bit more context. If who were citizens?
(DIR) Post #9uzPK4fSc3CB8OLkB6 by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T01:44:55Z
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@alex @stux @wjmaggos @realcaseyrollins Are you saying the gov is not at fault for refusing ballots to citizens w/out photo ID on the basis of not knowing eligibility? In that scenario, the gov *is* at fault b/c the gov knows who is a citizen. At a bare minimum the gov has birth certificate records.
(DIR) Post #9uzPK4p22Sqrc4pO64 by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-13T02:11:16Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoWhat good does a birth certificate do? It doesn't prove that the person at the voting booth is the person they say they are.The government knows who is and isn't a citizen. Yay. Step two is to match the voter to a record of a citizen from the government.@alex @stux @wjmaggos
(DIR) Post #9uzobabXciHTxfxtrs by sandeepa@fosstodon.org
2020-05-13T06:54:32Z
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@realcaseyrollins does it have any android client?
(DIR) Post #9v08FNwO1aW5OjPAIq by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T10:34:38Z
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@realcaseyrollins @wjmaggos @stux @alex You know that the gov knows who is a citizen, & yet you wonder what good is the birth cert? The birth records are in fact *how* the gov knows who is a citizen. Your premise is that w/out photo ID you can't prove identity. Think that through. How does someone get their 1st photo ID issued if your premise is true?
(DIR) Post #9v0A6oschB4QFbgiZs by realcaseyrollins@mstdn.social
2020-05-13T10:55:30Z
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@aktivismoEstasMiaLuoI believe they need multiple forma of identification, at least two or so.However, these forms are not only easier to forge than a photo ID, it also does not ensure that the person with the papers is the one who the records belong to. The reason photo ID laws work is due to the fact that very few people or organizations willing to commit voter fraud get legitimate photo IDs in order to do so.@wjmaggos @stux @alex
(DIR) Post #9v0J9BxsjjxY0uLzoO by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T12:36:47Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos There are countless levels of verification. Fake docs, fake ID cards, you bring in biometrics and fingerprints can be faked. It's an arms race with a cost-benefit puzzle. And it's already solved. 1071 voter fraud cases total nationwide from the founding of the country - that's not a problem. It makes no difference in any election to bring that count down. 3.2 million people denied
(DIR) Post #9v0JHS8uTJ0CVNS25I by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T12:38:17Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos There are countless levels of identification & authentication. Fake docs, fake ID cards, if you bring in biometrics and fingerprints they can be faked too. It's an arms race with a cost-benefit puzzle. And it's already solved. 1071 voter fraud cases total nationwide from the founding of the country - that's *not* a problem. It makes no difference in any election to bring that count
(DIR) Post #9v0JIit1hiEmizcxnM by aktivismoEstasMiaLuo@activism.openworlds.info
2020-05-13T12:38:31Z
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@realcaseyrollins @alex @stux @wjmaggos There are countless levels of identification & authentication. Fake docs, fake ID cards, if you bring in biometrics and fingerprints they can be faked too. It's an arms race with a cost-benefit puzzle. And it's already solved. 1071 voter fraud cases total nationwide from the founding of the country - that's *not* a problem. It makes no difference in any election to reduce that.