Post 9tPIL23cot5L6Om2KW by drisc@merveilles.town
(DIR) More posts by drisc@merveilles.town
(DIR) Post #9tPCvIbaApkF7kZEH2 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:09:51Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
PleasePlease please pleaseFrom the bottom of my heart, I am begging you, dear readerInstall 9front on a VM or on your old ThinkPad and spend this weekend messing around with it.http://9front.org/PLEASEDO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRYI am dead serious, *please* do this. Please...
(DIR) Post #9tPD1cV57JSqZ6XZZ2 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:10:59Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
Until everyone has experience with Plan 9, the software ecosystem is doomed to keep making awful solutions to everything. Garbage like Docker wouldn't even exist if college CS courses were taught on Plan 9.
(DIR) Post #9tPDAGEzFN4W8P8HtQ by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:12:40Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
The problem with Plan 9 is that everyone comes away from it trying to bring its ideas into Linux, instead of weeping with exestential dread at how we got to a universe where this platonic ideal operating system is not the norm, and wondering how we may ever redeem ourselves in the light of our lord
(DIR) Post #9tPDGWdXCTFaitbN1U by ky0ko@cybre.space
2020-03-26T17:12:39Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir if CS courses were taught on Plan9 that would immediately and drastically change my opinion on CS degrees
(DIR) Post #9tPDi6QYEuuvXog9C4 by tidux@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-03-26T17:17:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir the curse of drivers. How elegant an OS is doesn't matter if it won't talk to my hardware.
(DIR) Post #9tPDq0wkV5p0rZVmPQ by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:18:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tidux you should always choose your hardware with software support in mind, not the other way around
(DIR) Post #9tPDvpFetYqyKT7xrc by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:18:15Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@tidux and in any case, just run it in qemu
(DIR) Post #9tPEDO1Ss1Z35nrVQm by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-26T17:25:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sir @tidux only because we're in a pathological world.In an ideal world, all hardware would come with full specs, so you could write your own drivers for the hardware you own, and then send them upstream.Also, in an ideal world, ioctl never existed.
(DIR) Post #9tPEImGEBHpXiJL0oS by tidux@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-03-26T17:25:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I do make sure all my hardware works with Linux, and most of it works with the BSDs as well (including my USB SDR device), but 9front is still pretty limited in what it can do with hardware. I don't want to spend my time writing kernel drivers for hardware that already works on half a dozen other Free Software OSes.
(DIR) Post #9tPEbsypQH1E3VJLiC by rigo@mamot.fr
2020-03-26T17:29:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir the German language jokes in English wording are hilarious: "High performance cloud computing is NIX" 😂 . This is just a German sentence saying HPCC is rubbish ... http://fqa.9front.org/fqa0.html#0.1
(DIR) Post #9tPEgMIwKyh8A5qp16 by sqwishy@social.froghat.ca
2020-03-26T17:27:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir have you blogged about this or anything plan 9 related at all? Every time I see it come up everyone says it's amazing and that everyone has to try it but nobody says why they they think it's amazing.
(DIR) Post #9tPEiDUy35e9QhMYEK by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-26T17:30:40Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir you can either:- be sad and lose the will to live- act and try to make your reality a bit closer to the idealwhich do you think is more productive?
(DIR) Post #9tPF3C9gEqeNLQPQAq by kragen@nerdculture.de
2020-03-26T17:34:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @sir @tidux Ring the bell that still can ringForget your perfect offeringThere's a crack in everythingThat's how the light gets in
(DIR) Post #9tPF7SiYbLPds2l0Bk by harrison_partch@pieville.net
2020-03-26T17:34:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir um, plan9 has good stuff in it but a2 oberon os is far better.
(DIR) Post #9tPFeCNqLt2Aleg7jk by evilham@chaos.social
2020-03-26T17:40:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir omg why didn't I know this? FQA0 literally describes docker as a feature and everything that is wrong with networking.
(DIR) Post #9tPH7KqE5KrvLpPZOS by cadadr@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-03-26T17:54:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Plan 9's obsolescence is similar to that of platonic idealism's obsolescence: interesting, consistent ideas in and of themselves, but they fail to apply to the world around them.If Plan 9 had decent Posix and/or Linux syscall&libc emulation and good library support, it might've had a chance. But a platform like Plan 9 / 9front today causes way too much friction than supportable when collaborating with the wider world, which requires supporting all that terrible and inconsisten APIs&ABIs.
(DIR) Post #9tPH7LHWRqheiUBMwK by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T17:55:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cadadr "if Plan 9 had all of the things which are bad about everything else, it might have worked"If plan 9 was linux then it would not be plan 9
(DIR) Post #9tPIL23cot5L6Om2KW by drisc@merveilles.town
2020-03-26T18:10:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Currently reading through the pdf for "no thinkpad", the amount of info in here is incredible. I'm so confused but intrigued at the same time. This will be a fun hole to fall down.
(DIR) Post #9tPJeCPaeAa6fhkdBQ by cadadr@mastodon.sdf.org
2020-03-26T18:23:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Linux isn't Windows because there's Wine. FreeBSD isn't Linux because it support Linux binaries and drivers to an extent.The best Plan 9 today is plan9ports, because one can do more than contemplate it's marvels.
(DIR) Post #9tPNcnLIlebiRqKae0 by jordan31@fosstodon.org
2020-03-26T19:10:31Z
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@sir well now you got MW curious. I never heard of it before, but currently watching a YouTube vid about it.
(DIR) Post #9tPP2fygs7Dl5eeyPY by swashberry@social.linux.pizza
2020-03-26T19:23:55Z
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@sir What would you say is the big advantage of Plan 9 over Linux or the BSDs?I'm intrigued to check it out, but I'm hesitant to switch to an operating system that isn't going to get any support when I'm still learning about the *nix systems myself.
(DIR) Post #9tPQng8yAmvdAXRbg8 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T19:44:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@swashberry Plan 9 is better in every conceivable way than Linux or BSD
(DIR) Post #9tPRnzdLoFYdZQMuqu by 361.xj9@social.sunshinegardens.org
2020-03-26T19:57:02.200555Z
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@cadadr @sir the best plan 9 today is 9front. plan9port gives you some of the plan9 userspace, but you lose all of the advantages that come from consistency and simplicity across the entire system. linux isn't simple or consistent and you can't make it simple *or* consistent by adding more code to the mix.
(DIR) Post #9tPYnhdnPDTtRhNxoW by lunarised@heavensfeel.xyz
2020-03-26T21:15:47.136721Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Sell.me
(DIR) Post #9tPbFoLSGzXsFsKz4q by nifker@mastodonten.de
2020-03-26T21:42:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir It seems like it has no amd64 images
(DIR) Post #9tPbNdLZ32oMSf7Q5A by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T21:42:35Z
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@nifker you can install the 32-bit version and then cross-compile it for amd64 directly on the box in <10 minutes
(DIR) Post #9tPisvUYKoyhORBwCO by nifker@mastodonten.de
2020-03-26T23:07:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Can I live boot it?
(DIR) Post #9tPj0L5Ha65WnGuFfs by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-26T23:08:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker yes, but I don't think you'll get the full experience unless you install it and actually use it
(DIR) Post #9tPxu1NTR4HbFXrPou by jrswab@mastodon.xyz
2020-03-27T01:55:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir This I need to do now that I seem to have a free weekend. I have played around with the plan9 port and now I have an inch that needs some serious scratching....
(DIR) Post #9tRLWLw38FrzRtWCbA by nifker@mastodonten.de
2020-03-27T17:55:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Ok I can now say I have no clue whats so special about it.
(DIR) Post #9tRLXVB4Ft4OP25hMe by nifker@mastodonten.de
2020-03-27T17:56:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Whats the issue with ioctl?
(DIR) Post #9tRLd90Xawc5NjrEY4 by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-27T17:55:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker there has been insufficient time since that post for you to have fully evaluated and internalized its concepts
(DIR) Post #9tRLml5RO4fK5WjYvo by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2020-03-27T17:59:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker- It turns _some_ files into something more than a stream of bytes.- The ioctl numbers and arguments depend heavily on what kinda file you're operating on. You can't have generic tools for ioctl, because each device has different ioctls.- It's a kitchen sink for things which should've been separate syscalls, separate files, or some other, better-designed API, but it was easier to just whack another ioctl
(DIR) Post #9tRLpr4LbLsFVjhOsq by nifker@mastodonten.de
2020-03-27T17:59:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Id even guess it doesnt support Wayland and I dont think anyone wants to write to the FB on their own.
(DIR) Post #9tRLwhOBzPgJW4FEgK by sir@cmpwn.com
2020-03-27T17:59:34Z
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@nifker okay, you definitely don't understand plan 9 yet. Keep messing with it. Don't have a goal in mind, just see what you can do with it on its own merits
(DIR) Post #9tRuZ0RSzrlC3MDLAe by danct12@fosstodon.org
2020-03-28T00:27:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir this is something to do while being quarantined.