Post 9t4dXkX6APrw8HJXSy by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
(DIR) More posts by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
(DIR) Post #9t4dHeIjZJNuAiuyWG by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:01:36Z
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Think I'm becoming one of those annoying "we have an elitist fetish for higher education, more people should go to trade schools and appreciate blue collar work more" people...Apologies in advance...But self-employed plumbers have a very high job satisfaction and make a lot of money!
(DIR) Post #9t4dHecaNVGRAICpSi by simsa03@pleroma.site
2020-03-15T22:37:50.083877Z
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@LeoSammallahti The qualifier is "self-employed" which makes your plumber similar to people of "higher education". It's different with (and for) normal blue collar employees, like fast food workers, dishwashers, kitchen aids, cashiers.... There is no dignity in working under slave conditions and for those wages. Try again.
(DIR) Post #9t4dHf5edQW4cRo2ls by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T22:47:50Z
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@simsa03 And how will putting more people into college help that? Isn't the solution to appreciate those workers more as I pointed out. This includes paying them.Electricians and plumbers earn more than uni graduates in the UK.People without uni/college degrees are not losers, and we should value them more. We shouldn't try to push too many people to college, but make life better for those without college.How much do left wing leaders speak in unis & colleges compared to trade schools?
(DIR) Post #9t4dHfWF2ZmdwuFHDE by simsa03@pleroma.site
2020-03-15T22:59:01.006709Z
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@LeoSammallahti I saw in the thread that you had blue collar jobs, so I guess we're far more on the same page than it seems.The point I was trying to make is that self-employed blue collar workers and higher education people tend, for different reasons (becaise of differernt paths), tend to be rather smug regarding those working as employees, esp. in the manual professions.In the country where I am living, Germany, self-employed blue collar workers can be as arrogant as people with some university degrees. Only that they vote rightwing or conservative, not leftwing, progressive or green.But these are simply variants of the same smugness that results from a need to distinguish oneself from those who they deem inferior or losers or being in situations of their own faults.So that's why I find your disntinction misleading. It's less higher education vs. self-employed blue colloar, but self-employed (or prestigiously employed) vs precarious employed.With regard to politics and workers representation: In Germany it has been the Social Democrats (and Greens) who created a precarious employment market. Accordingly, precarious workers and unemployed don't vote Social Democrats, Greens, or join unions. They abstain from voting, or vote extremist. And for good reasons: Why trust those who hurt you most?
(DIR) Post #9t4dSAdsBFhVN5p3zM by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:15:26Z
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@LeoSammallahti there's nothing annoying in this thought, as a previous blue collar worker, I am also keen (fetish?) on higher education and researchers, scientists etc. What's annoying is the social frontier existing b/w these groups / the critical lack of funding of trade schools
(DIR) Post #9t4dSAvF8fayExww40 by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:17:01Z
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@LeoSammallahti at least in France, the budget for trade schools is heavily under funded and the delivered diplomas seen as markers of low intelligence by our elites
(DIR) Post #9t4dSBIdjgJJPWtcX2 by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:20:21Z
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@NougatBougnat Totally, just referring to a type of people I've come across in social media who use this talking point in a way that some might find annoying.I haven't had any education since I was 15 and worked in blue collar jobs most of my life. As a left-winger think this is a big problem. I see politicians organise university students and talk in universities, but rarely see them organise those in trade schools or speak in trade schools.
(DIR) Post #9t4dSBmPwy86tspOwi by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:25:34Z
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@LeoSammallahti good point ! exactly the same config. in France, traditional left parties are very active in Universities and absent in trade schools
(DIR) Post #9t4dSCE4IAFQHdlU2q by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:26:39Z
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@LeoSammallahti curious to know how did you come to the left then ?
(DIR) Post #9t4dSCYz2OyhKVYBe4 by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:30:12Z
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@NougatBougnat Growing up in Finland during a period of one of the most rapid growth of income inequality ever in history of any country made an impression.Joined trade unions and the Finnish Social Democratic Party, which offered a weird mix of on the other hand, internationalism and criticism of the current economic system, and on the other hand a sort of patriotic conservatism in the sense of defending the country from neoliberal influences.2008 economic crisis was a big influence.
(DIR) Post #9t4dSD4X96DOuMJNp2 by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:34:42Z
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@NougatBougnat By patriotic conservatism I don't refer at all to issues like LGBT rights, womens rights, racism, etc.Just saw that the system that my parents had helped built and my grandparents had fought for was under attack by big multinational companies.Saw a need to conserve and revitalise the nordic social democracy built by the trade unions, coops and the social democratic party.SDP has very little support among university students - they mostly go to Greens or Radical Left.
(DIR) Post #9t4dSDVTWvlYFuutoe by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:40:30Z
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@NougatBougnat For the left there is an especially big problem with talking to self-employed blue collar workers.Many of them see themselves as business owners and entrepreneurs (which they are!) - and are proud of not needing any help or working for anyone. They can't relate to being "losers of the system and oppressed by capitalists". Often they make decent amount of money.In a way it's very Marxist - these are workers who are cutting off the capitalist and working for themselves!
(DIR) Post #9t4dUa7SQatmxzoIHw by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:40:56Z
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@LeoSammallahti totally got you, I am working in Finland since 2y now, and very impressed by the unions vitality here, far better than in France ! Fully agree with you too that the Finnish Socialist model should be revitalized asap. So many things to say about the "Scandinavian culture" model that the French are dreaming, whereas it is the result of huge collective efforts and political engagements
(DIR) Post #9t4dUaWcv122E3aOWG by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:44:10Z
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@NougatBougnat Ha! How did you end up in Finland? Unfortunately Finnish left, including social democrats, are increasingly dominated by "political broilers" as we call them.Highly educated people who go into politics/NGOs from an early age and have very little in common with the lives of their voters.We need highly educated intellectuals, economists, sociologists, etc. But we need a balance of having people from all walks of life!
(DIR) Post #9t4dXkHr55fxN0BMhs by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T21:46:10Z
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@LeoSammallahti working around the nuke industry...long story there
(DIR) Post #9t4dXkX6APrw8HJXSy by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:57:10Z
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@NougatBougnat Lula Da Silva is a great example of a blue collar worker leading what might be the most important series of victories for a leftist party perhaps ever in the history of the world.Not saying he got everything right, but don't think I'm a position of criticising him of "not doing enough" sitting in my pyjamas browsing internet :D.
(DIR) Post #9t4dXks0uebDB96F4C by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T21:59:28Z
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@NougatBougnat That being said, also understand that since the share of university educated has increased and the share of factory workers decreased, left has had to appeal more to those with more education.Appealing to both is not mutually exclusive, but it seems we left has excluded those without college/uni degrees too much.
(DIR) Post #9t4dXlF3Wz1yKbsdyy by NougatBougnat@mamot.fr
2020-03-15T22:21:05Z
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@LeoSammallahti just checked your website, looking forward to see the results, I will happily join coop once launched
(DIR) Post #9t4dXlYuLAuVKBAUvQ by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T22:24:00Z
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@NougatBougnat Thanks!!Recently also launched a new free online #coop newspaper called Mutual Interest, that is owned by the readers and the writers.Currently working on an article about how left should put more focus on those without college/uni degrees.Anyone with any recommended articles/lectures/etc. about the topic don't hesitate to link me!https://www.mutualinterest.coop/page/2
(DIR) Post #9t4dd99y23PvxY4IQC by LeoSammallahti@social.coop
2020-03-15T23:09:04Z
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@simsa03 Yeah I don't really think we disagree on much.Main point was that trade schools and vocational education can often be a better educational path than college/uni. Don't understand why the left is so fixated with getting smaller share of the population to acquire vocational education.Those without college/uni are very underrepresented in politics. 2/3 of people in the US don't have a college degree - all but one senator do. And that one senator is a son of a congressman...
(DIR) Post #9t4dgyEQbWo5E0yhmK by simsa03@pleroma.site
2020-03-15T23:33:17.684736Z
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@LeoSammallahti > Main point was that trade schools and vocational education can often be a better educational path than college/uni. I guess the latter depends on the field of study. I have graduated from university and now work as dishwasher in a restaurant. Others graduate and work in science and technology, or wherever there is still money left to be gained.Of course a plumber can make more money than someone who has graduated in Gender studies or Urban studies. Perhaps he may even be more satisfied than his employees. But don't underestimate the lateral violence here. I found the most obnoxious hatred against unemployed or under-employed people to reside in employed blue collar workers. They will insist on keeping even harsh working conditions provied and as long as they can despise those who have less. (That is one of the reasons why "the" left failed to attract workers in the past 30 years.) In that a coalition results between blue colloar employees and blue collar employer or blue collar self-employed. As long as they unite in whom they can despise (next to being proud about their own performance), no "left" will make any inroads.And one last reason why the left makes no inroads with blue collar wokers is this: Regardless how much "the" left praises the blue collar worker, they cannot stand the smell that comes with the socio-economic (a.k.a. cultural) territory. Which blue collar workers and other employed workers in the service industries pretty quickly sense.