Post 9qNcempfcn6hddRfvM by grainloom@cybre.space
(DIR) More posts by grainloom@cybre.space
(DIR) Post #9pjGJ7EA1WicvICU9w by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T17:53:39Z
4 likes, 7 repeats
Developer-driven software distribution is a bad idea, which is why I dislike things like Flatpak.Having distro maintainers involved in the process and installing your software from a free software distribution like Debian or FreeBSD is a much better distribution of power. The packages can be tuned to suit their environment without the developer having to repackage it for every distro, and the distro maintainers can keep out anti-features like telemetry and advertising.The middleman may seem annoying to developers, but embrace the model and it'll work for you. Landing packages in your favorite distro isn't actually that hard, and the rest of the distros will follow. If you're an end-user who wants to see some software available for your distro, look into packaging and volunteer - it's easy.
(DIR) Post #9pjGUTVtVNCzE9uaXY by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T17:54:33Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
This is also why I don't like developer-driven language-specific software repositories like PyPI and npm, Chrome and Firefox extensions, and so on, which unsurprisingly have constant problems with malware.
(DIR) Post #9pjGqlIu2bycm4SjA0 by Shitlord@dobbs.town
2019-12-07T17:59:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Caution shitpost: Everything should be writtin in reverse Polish notation for the lols.
(DIR) Post #9pjGxB2hG5UwL3wP9k by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T18:00:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
(I also dislike Flatpak for being a massive fucking bloat)
(DIR) Post #9pjH2xJ3F5IVTSLWLo by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T18:00:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
(and also because dbus)(basically, fuck flatpak)
(DIR) Post #9pjJvvsqQuygtgQmeW by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-12-07T18:34:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir >The middleman may seem annoying to developerswhich is a good thing ;)
(DIR) Post #9pjK95EeyTgdfLuDJ2 by nifker@mastodonten.de
2019-12-07T18:30:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Whats the issue with DBus?
(DIR) Post #9pjLKiSfZcKuSkZMQK by bpepple@mastodon.social
2019-12-07T18:47:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir To be fair many of those problems can just as easily crop-up in distributions. Not to mention if the distro packager isn't involved upstream they can easily screw-up implementing the app (just look at the horrible job Ubuntu did with PulseAudio back in the day).
(DIR) Post #9pjTjZ7IFmAmLxvlzs by rune@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2019-12-07T20:23:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir god I hate pypi as an end user... Even using repository installed ansible on a redhat machine you still have to periodically hit your head against a wall because a bunch of the pypi packages required to use the azure modules are the wrong version or have dependency conflicts with rpm based python packages...And this is the official way described in the ansible docs...$ pip install 'ansible[azure]'
(DIR) Post #9pjUOiUCK5FnHjGaMi by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-07T20:31:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir as a Ruby app developer, it seems odd to me that I would find Ruby gems in the Fedora package manager. As a Ruby gem maintainer, I wouldn't want to burden distro maintainers every time I release a new version. Do distro package managers even have features like version pinning? Seems like the repos are stuck with the major version that was out when the distro was released, and in a fast-moving world like web app development, you'd be hamstrung to old gem or npm versions.
(DIR) Post #9pjXDpvCdYtX1UOxHs by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T21:03:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul this comment betrays a lot of ignorance, and I don't have the time to address it all, so I'll just clarify that basically all of your assumptions here are wrong
(DIR) Post #9pjXI2usGUiIU3FsVk by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T21:03:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul in short all of these problems are things that maintainers have thought about and/or are illustrative of problems with the ruby community more so than with distros
(DIR) Post #9pjXiAOd4rUpDAd0AC by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-07T21:08:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir fully aware of my ignorance, just remarking that relying on my package manager is so far out of my experience as a web developer (and every fellow dev at every place I've ever worked since 2000), I find it surprising that it's even an option. Every 5 years or so when I look into it, it seems completely untenable, all the "happy path" tooling would have to be discarded and something new written. Doesn't help that 99% off Ruby/JS devs use MacOS...
(DIR) Post #9pjYFDlVZYHFDU5hnU by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-07T21:14:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir for example, if I want my app to support a new provider in omniauth that's only available on newer versions of the gem, I'm just stuck for months or years until Centos 7 or Ubuntu 18.04 do their next LTS so I can grab the next major version? I'm genuinely curious here.
(DIR) Post #9pjbDsqKAvvPtrOiK8 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T21:47:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul yep, just be patient, or use a distro which moves faster, or use custom package repos to fill in the gaps
(DIR) Post #9pjdDut2mBMc9BoTCa by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-07T22:10:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir what about all the other devs on the team that use MacOS? Homebrew is even worse of a package manager than bundler or yarn, when compared to dnf or apt. They're just expected to use a VM for local dev? I gotta say, using a VM for dev is a horrible experience...
(DIR) Post #9pjepCAZa9ZwPwLsYK by cagatayy@mastodon.social
2019-12-07T22:28:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir One of the major features of Flatpak is using container technology to make sure no matter the distro, the package is running in the same environment as the developer's machine, so there is no need to "tune for the environment."For the anti-feature point, if you have problems with the source, you should fork it, not pretend you are distributing the app while in reality you are distributing something else.
(DIR) Post #9pjgaKcW52AaBvSjSq by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-07T22:48:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy spoken like a dev who's annoyed that distros hold them accountable
(DIR) Post #9pkCA98lKwDDai6S36 by czero1@mastodon.technology
2019-12-08T04:41:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir remember how arch maintainers refused to add vscode to their repos because of their "electron apps must use system-wide /usr/bin/electron" policy. Microsoft (of all companies) ended up fixing this issue, and look at this package now:https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/code/nothing binary at all, has electron as its dependency. I can't imagine such stuff in flatpak ecosystem.
(DIR) Post #9pkVVbNbR93iNszMlk by cagatayy@mastodon.social
2019-12-08T08:18:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir spoken like a person who does not have a real answerSeriously, I don't maintain any apps. Even if your reply was in good faith, it is incorrect.Second, it was clear in my first reply: just fork it. It will "hold me accountable." Who is not accountable is the maintainer who changes the code while not changing the brand. The one who should be accountable for the resulting errors is the maintainer but often the user does not know because the downstream is using the upstream's brand.
(DIR) Post #9pkvUHp5GDIIFTsNvM by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T13:09:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@czero1 this is a good thing, to be clear
(DIR) Post #9plR17oKbTbxKdf9Wq by valhalla@social.gl-como.it
2019-12-08T16:00:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @sir As a (python) developer and a distro maintainer.In many cases, upgrading a package to a new version isn't a big deal: most of the time is taken by giving a quick review of the code to check that upstream hasn't gone insane :) and then it's a matter of running a few commands to upgrade the package and run tests to check that everything is still working. This is especially true for packages that release relatively often and don't change everything from one release to the next, of course, but many python modules are like that, and I supposed ruby gems are too?As for version pinning, yes, with stable distributions you are basically pinned to the version available when the distro was released and get no new features, but you do get security fixes (when possible, and when the maintainer gets to know that there is a need for one). On the other hand, it also means that you can be sure that your software will not break until the next *predictable* distribution release.It is true that as a developer I tend to work on things that are supposed to be maintained for years with minimal developer effort (because there isn't a developer working full-time on them), so I'm especially uncomfortable with the common web approach where you have to either rewrite your code every other month to keep it working with your dependencies or keep it stuck on the version that was out when you wrote the code even if it has known security vulnerabilities.
(DIR) Post #9plR18I6olQkozavwW by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-08T18:51:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@valhalla @sir A quick check of my Fedora 30 install shows there's 1, 250 `rubygem-*` packages available, out of 10,000 on rubygems.org. The current version of the single most popular gem, `rails` in the distro is 5.2.3, and 5.2.4 was released Nov 27. Rails 6 was released back in August. Our main production app has 318 gem dependencies, 137 are available in Fedora 30, and 37 are the version we need.
(DIR) Post #9plR18mF0jX8KRgzuS by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T19:02:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @valhalla there is no way that there are 10,000 ruby gems which are worth more than the bytes they take up on disk
(DIR) Post #9plTB7hA5WLPmGCjnE by bugmenot@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T19:23:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I get where you're coming from, but I don't agree on the middleman with you here, @sir.The point of the distro is not to safeguard the user from upstream misfeatures. That's not why the distros arose in the first place. A software entry barrier is a mere byproduct.Certain distros will go beyond providing you with the base system, true. I think Debian is the one which stores patches for upstream code when the publisher avoids addressing his users' demands.Arch and Alpine will only recommend pristine upstream software, even if that introduces hostile functionality. The rationale is that, once the program is popular enough, not having it is a strike against the distro. And they can't go the Debian way either, for that will violate the design principles.Offhandedly, it is simply a false claim that packaging software for your distro is easy as an entrant contributor. Sure, if you lack social credit, you can go the AUR way, but that is unsupported content and therefore can't be in any way considered part of software distribution. At which point we're back at square one, if users want to get the software, they'll have to ask the upstream.
(DIR) Post #9plTgQkpHDaFrhqZU0 by Paul@ruby.social
2019-12-08T19:32:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @valhalla of course not, including some of mine. But there's more than 1200, since that only covers a third of what's needed for even a comparitively small app like ours
(DIR) Post #9plUqQX13ky41ZiZiS by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T19:46:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugmenot I don't agree with any of this, except what distros were originally for - though not the implication that they need to still serve that original mission in order to be useful.Arch tries for pristine upstream stuff, but Alpine is no stranger to patches when appropriate. No one is thinking about upstream software popularity's influence on downstream distro popularity, that has never been a problem for any distro.And I also disagree that packaging is inaccessible. On Alpine at least, which is the distro I focus on, it's extremely easy.
(DIR) Post #9plUvEe4gBgEblJQ5g by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T19:46:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @valhalla this is more indicative of the ruby community being terrible than of distros being wrong.
(DIR) Post #9plY9Jxq07K51Kxrdo by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-12-08T20:23:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @sir Why's using a VM for dev a horrible experience? I mean, it can eat some RAM from your machine but other than that, you just ssh into it and develop the same way you'd develop on prod.Also, with VMs you can have shared folders, so you can edit code on the host and only run the buildsystem and application on the VM.
(DIR) Post #9plYFnJfmc3XnBGSqe by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T20:24:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul devs on macOS get what's coming to them. Don't use shitty proprietary OSes.
(DIR) Post #9plZ7t56Z5I7JGFBnE by Freyaday@gayrobot.club
2019-12-08T20:34:05.038463Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Wolf480pl @Paul @sirI'm forced to VNC into a VM for work actually. It's not as horrid as I thought it would be, and means I can work from anywhere and not have to worry about network permission shenanigans. The latency is there, but it's not in-your-face. About as bad as Android lmao. So hey: you can set up a VM on a server to dev on and take it with you.
(DIR) Post #9plZ7tTZ68rCX7giv2 by Wolf480pl@niu.moe
2019-12-08T20:34:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Freyaday @sir @Paul yeah, or you can just dev on prod :P
(DIR) Post #9plblc4jPbXU3f8j1U by bugmenot@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:03:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir >though not the implication that they need to still serve that original mission in order to be useful.I don't know what this actually means (what you're accusing me of) but I'm in favor of distros taking on tasks that help their users.>On Alpine at least, which is the distro I focus on, it's extremely easy.So a total stranger, can just get in touch with Alpine devs to package stuff that interests him? No vouching, no laundry lists, etc?That is to say, I've known you primarily as an Arch user.>No one is thinking about upstream software popularity's influence on downstream distro popularityThat doesn't apply to Web Browser packagers in general and distros, which strive to break free from proprietary software, will still package it in a separate repo making it clear it's only because users demand it.
(DIR) Post #9plbyc6Mcpkvu86PT6 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:06:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugmenot you can make your own package trivially for Alpine, docs exist to help you and I'm sure you'd get help on IRC if you asked for it, and then sending it upstream is as easy as a gitlab MR or email to the appropriate mailing list.I don't know what you're talking about with respect to web browsers.
(DIR) Post #9pld7ZwE8e3BkrCRXc by bugmenot@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:18:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Help and IRC don't belong in the same sentence. At least that's my experience with any kind of IM. Self-help all the way!Devs will package Web Browsers because users will complain if they're absent. Look at Arch's PKGBUILD for Firefox. It contains references to unique browsing trackers. Not cool they've to go to these lengths to be able to provide the software to their users.
(DIR) Post #9pldgftzxLD0O4tOAi by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:24:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugmenot oh, you can shove it, IRC is great and it's your own damn fault for not reaching out on it.And it's very cool that Arch Linux is in a position to remove telemetry crapware from Firefox. That's the whole fucking point behind my argument.
(DIR) Post #9ple1nwnEvp7Q6H7Oy by bugmenot@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:27:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir >And it's very cool that Arch Linux is in a position to remove telemetry crapware from Firefox. That's the whole fucking point behind my argument.My point is they ain't doing that. They do the opposite.>oh, you can shove it, IRC is great and it's your own damn fault for not reaching out on it.That was your experience. A person with no credibility will find himself isolated on IRC.Also, how Alpine deals with situational package contributors? Let's say a package breaks and the packager is nowhere to be found. Do they just strike it off the list and ban the (ir)responsible person?
(DIR) Post #9ple6seFBp9ZRn1Fiq by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:28:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugmenot IRC has nothing to do with credibility. If you ask your questions politely and wait patiently for an answer, you will get one. You're talking about some strange social credit system which simply doesn't exist.As for absentee maintainers, packages may eventually be moved into the unmaintained repo, or another volunteer will jump in. The contributor is not banned for abandoning a package, yeesh, everyone understand that we've all got shit to do. There are tools for auditing the staleness of packages.
(DIR) Post #9pleVkIbMu4SnCkk4W by bugmenot@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:34:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Being genuflex and waiting for days didn't cut it for me. I usually got a few fleeting responses then silence. That being said, I am interested in obscure stuff, so YMMV.I'll try Alpine even though I see a few roadblocks already. I respect their vision but it doesn't mean it's the right choice for everything.
(DIR) Post #9pleWgfIMggboNogUq by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-08T21:35:11.035404Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bugmenot @sir Alpine solves this issue by allowing developers to do non-maintainer changes, which would be entirely non-controversial to fix a FTBFS issue.
(DIR) Post #9plef0sx4QCyqAAsQC by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:36:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bugmenot not just developers, but also anyone who can write the patch.
(DIR) Post #9plegwCDTZKGsN6RTE by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-08T21:37:02.139052Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @bugmenot as long as they can find someone to push it yeah. that's slightly more difficult.
(DIR) Post #9plelhTncPfsgKb9Ki by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:37:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @bugmenot true, but it's much better now than it used to be.
(DIR) Post #9plg3x6oLdwEK073LM by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T21:50:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy @sir Hate to bang the Guix/Nix pan all the time (no i don't) but what you want is reproducable packages/environments, not containers.
(DIR) Post #9plg3xZAeCchjxNhY0 by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:51:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy nix people are like the homeless guy on the street corner ranting about the clinton administration in 2019
(DIR) Post #9plgYfiZ3dSdMSQ5Wy by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T21:56:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @cagatayy Well, it's a much more usable rolling release distro than any other I've tried. Guix, that is. Nix's tools could be better.And its developers aren't elitists who joke about mentally ill homeless people.Call me when another distro gets an equivalent of `guix environment`.
(DIR) Post #9plgiFCAWSUXzzpbVI by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T21:58:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy oh, shove off, it was a joke. NixOS is for FP elitists, that's why I don't like it. It's way too complicated for way too little gain. I'll take 90% the stability for 10% the complexity any day of the week.
(DIR) Post #9plh9W9pZ6NsQQk784 by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T22:03:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @cagatayy NixOS maybe, but Guix is not that complicated, nor are its developers or users FP elitists. But even Nix solved some very real problems that establishes package managers of the time failed to address.
(DIR) Post #9plhELb8Fksp7godhA by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T22:04:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy only true if you accept the "problems" it solves as such
(DIR) Post #9plhaCX4dfkpNUL1zU by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T22:08:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @cagatayy As someone who had pacman fuck up their bootloader due to a power outage, I welcomed anything that makes updates atomic. And being able to have conflicting versions of packages is also nice.
(DIR) Post #9plhea0XIhLRLLCt2O by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T22:09:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy I agree on the first point, but not the second.
(DIR) Post #9pli4j3QHvp8vi1a5Y by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T22:14:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @cagatayy It also makes parametric packages easy to work with. And the functional purity means you can provide binary caches for package variants. Undeclared dependencies not affecting build output is quite useful.
(DIR) Post #9pli7X5vD7D6hqX28m by codesections@fosstodon.org
2019-12-08T22:14:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @sir @cagatayy> As someone who had pacman fuck up their bootloader due to a power outage, I welcomed anything that makes updates atomic.I had (almost) the same thing happen to me, and it also dramatically increased my interest in #GuixSD, though I haven't made the time to try it out.("Almost" because it wasn't a power outage, it was a WM crash. Which led me to switch to a more stable/simple windows manager (away from #stumpwm to #bspwm))
(DIR) Post #9pli9cyIKaLxVpxmIi by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T22:15:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy I am familiar with these package managers, and I stand by considering these things antifeatures
(DIR) Post #9pliK31qJ127DuajWC by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T22:16:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @cagatayy :blobshrug:Ah well. I think most people will like them.
(DIR) Post #9pliMy1PNVEUYymRTE by codesections@fosstodon.org
2019-12-08T22:18:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @grainloom @cagatayy> I'll take 90% the stability for 10% the complexity any day of the week.Yeah, me too if it's reducing complexity by 90% in return for reducing stability by 10%.Out of curiosity, how much increased complexity (if any) would you accept for 10% more stability?(Not that I have any idea how to measure either in practice…)
(DIR) Post #9pliVJEkNu5wg3ztXU by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T22:18:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy on the contrary, the average person doesn't give two shits about these things. To most people, Linux == Ubuntu
(DIR) Post #9pliZreiMGQSaGJcAK by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-08T22:19:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@codesections @grainloom @cagatayy once a system reaches a practical threshold of stability, I will not take anything but slight increases in complexity to push the number further up. In the bootloader case, it's hardly difficult to boot up from your recovery disk and fix it the once in a blue moon it happens
(DIR) Post #9plkQ4jV5Af09e0vDM by franz@pantherx.social
2019-12-08T22:40:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @grainloom @cagatayy I'm very much a Guix advocate. We're developing an upstream distribution, based on this (still young), but in my opinion, fantastic package manager. That being said, I have to agree with Drew. For the majority, Linux = Ubuntu. Most people don't care about the technical details, or reproducible environments - nobody would be using Windows, or MacOS if that was the case. People want beautiful, no-brainer software, that helps them accomplish stuff without reading a manual.
(DIR) Post #9plooofyJnSpPYPsPY by wuwei@fosstodon.org
2019-12-08T23:29:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Strictly speaking, the average person doesn't even know about Ubuntu. I would guess more people have heard about Android running on something called Linux (even if it isn't 100% true)
(DIR) Post #9pmRmdekDOjOronKoS by Kat@pleroma.topcat.io
2019-12-09T06:47:06.944032Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirWhat if the end user is on a distro that has outdated repositories (like Ubuntu LTS or Debian), and they require the latest version of the software? Flatpak is a decent solution in this case, as they can easily install the latest version without having to compile it from source.
(DIR) Post #9pmS6vK0FFcbRmlX8a by wowaname@anime.website
2019-12-09T06:50:41.874068Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Kat @sir use testing or unstable or a better distro
(DIR) Post #9pmSUBYO3pwGRyaNl2 by Kat@pleroma.topcat.io
2019-12-09T06:54:59.046148Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowanameThat's not always an option. I've horribly messed up Ubuntu/Debian many times when trying to change update channels, and I don't want to do a complete reinstall just to use a certain program.@sir
(DIR) Post #9pmSaiychuZLqcyYNc by wowaname@anime.website
2019-12-09T06:56:10.119094Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Kat thats only because those distros are easy to mess up in the first place
(DIR) Post #9pmT0pU78L97Yq9Y6C by Kat@pleroma.topcat.io
2019-12-09T07:00:53.054620Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowanameWell, the point is, I'd rather have a useable solution to this issue (flatpak) instead of being told "lol that's your problem, not ours".
(DIR) Post #9pmUoZRV9TYKEyDHsG by wowaname@anime.website
2019-12-09T07:21:04.734786Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Kat my point, as much as it sucks to hear, is that debian and debian-based distros simply dont work
(DIR) Post #9pmYPL2vwIkWAUwhAO by blobyoumu@blob.cat
2019-12-09T08:01:20.748089Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Kat @sir (Debian Stable) Debian Testing and Sid is rolling and has about as new or maybe even newe packages that Arch
(DIR) Post #9pmf8wzeIchAcCXfl2 by alexl@mstdn.io
2019-12-09T09:16:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Flatpak is complementary to distro packages
(DIR) Post #9pmus8pEeZpNegg5ku by interserver@mastodon.social
2019-12-09T12:12:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @bugmenot Opensource social credit system tends to be opaque and deniable. Once the project reaches a certain milestone or a critical threshold some aspects of it start to become more enshrined. No use digging our heads in the sand about that one.I see reason behind excommunication process. The community was trusting you to be there when it breaks. You wasn't, so no one wants to deal with you anymore and waste their time. This also encourages maintainers to seek replacement for themselves
(DIR) Post #9pn6maNGVtVQoDiEZU by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-09T14:25:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@interserver @bugmenot this is still such a wrong take. This simply is not how it works. And now you've described it as "denyable" so you can say whatever you want and dismiss anything I say to correct you.
(DIR) Post #9pn8C3UtTIrMKHzOrY by a_breakin_glass@cybre.space
2019-12-09T14:41:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @bugmenot mailing lists are far better at help than IRC; while yes, such projects have mailing lists too, saying that IRC is great when asynchronous communications such as mailing lists are generaliy better (especially since they tend to be archived, unlike IRC, and easier to search in any case)
(DIR) Post #9popK0heEcw1ACxFBp by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-09T19:41:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@franz @sir @cagatayy I kinda agree with this but if someone's doing web development and have already installed a language specific package manager, then using Guix or Nix shouldn't be that hard for them and if they wanna distribute things with Flatpak and absolutely refuse to write a proper package instead, then I'd prefer guix pack instead of a blob that who knows what generated.
(DIR) Post #9popK1lwG9xeTnyBW4 by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-10T10:20:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy @sir @franz The major difference between language-specific package managers and guix/nix is that the former generally: - Work out of the box on Windows - Are installable by non-root in an arbitrary locationI believe that at least one of buck/pants/bazel do this to some extent already today for some languages.I hope we can one day have a guix-lite that while giving up on some features of full guix can fulfill the above two requirements and make cross-language deps normal rather than fringe, and stop new languages from inventing the 847th wheel.And, of course, it should fit well with guix-full so that a real guix can benefit from the packaging work done for devs.
(DIR) Post #9posjsQpuQfUu27Iie by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-10T10:38:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke @cagatayy @sir @franz isn't Guix already installable without root?https://hpc.guix.info/blog/2017/10/using-guix-without-being-root/
(DIR) Post #9posjsqiMDMuCIDy3U by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-10T10:55:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy @sir @franz Cool! So both Nix and Guix support PRoot. It's a bit awkward, but it checks the box.Still need to cover all those Python devs on Windows. But maybe all of them will be on Linux on Windows sooner or later.
(DIR) Post #9pot0dmjcQXaOpLxbM by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T21:45:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @sir Look into Guix. It makes importing language specific packages relatively painless, and dependency conflicts are basically nonexistant, because you only ever actually install what is absolutely needed, everything else is referenced through the store.As a user, I absolutely loathe how npm/luarocks/etc try to install things globally. Yes, per-user installs still count as global.
(DIR) Post #9potJqgXseGFuWcKo4 by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-08T21:48:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Paul @sir Nix has official support for the walled garden. Not sure if it has importers tho.
(DIR) Post #9potJr5iN4OVAaOR2O by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-10T11:04:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @sir @Paul Nix works great on MacOS, it's my main package source for non-Mac-y things there.I have zero need for macports or fink these days, and get only a handful of Cocoa things from Homebrew, or actually mostly from Homebrew Cask.
(DIR) Post #9potmnX2gQDWWqyahc by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-10T11:09:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @sir @Paul The importer situation on Nix is pretty bad. Every new language reinvents the wheel and code reuse is low because the documentation is sparse.When I can create the time to work on racket2nix again, I hope to generalize a few things and reduce the fragmentation, but I can't say which year that would be.
(DIR) Post #9pouuoNDXQhjPSlXZQ by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-10T11:21:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom @cagatayy @sir And if you actually want a container basically you just `--container`. 😀
(DIR) Post #9pp0YP0zjspm7G4Lg0 by federico3@mastodon.social
2019-12-10T12:25:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir I’ve done quite a bit of packaging as a Debian developer, and inside Amazon (yes, the company uses OS packages), as a SuSE and HPE employee.It is sad to see how uncooperative upstream developers can be, mostly due to myths around software lifecycle and the needs of end users.Most software in the world is developed -> built -> distributed -> integrated -> deployed & mantained -> used by 4 to 6 different individuals/entities. Often different organizations.
(DIR) Post #9pp0kTEfsAE0gIDpqa by federico3@mastodon.social
2019-12-10T12:27:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Software distributed with shorter “chains” is the minority and the majority of software and hardware deployed in the world lives for many years.Unfortunately there’s some disconnect between these lifecycles and the ones known by the most vocal crowd of developers on the Internet.
(DIR) Post #9pp0qACPYxA3NUsVpQ by federico3@mastodon.social
2019-12-10T12:28:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Compile-time and run-time dependencies should be unbundled from sources to allow maintainers and system engineers to update components independently. Software should be modular where reasonable: allow disabling ancillary features and remove dependencies Backward compatibility is important: hard dependencies on libraries released a week ago are painful; hard breaks on ABI/API/etc are more painful. Gentler deprecation and upgrade paths are preferred.
(DIR) Post #9pp25mJYEY4vt7EA1w by interserver@mastodon.social
2019-12-10T12:42:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @bugmenot Show me someone in FOSS who openly admits to being partial. Human nature is incumbent. To be absolutely fair, opensource is much better than scene in that respect.
(DIR) Post #9qK4CnbVBPbs0UQBeK by scolobb@bidule.menf.in
2019-12-25T12:03:03.748441Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom Nix/Guix enthusiast here, banging the Nix/Guix pan with you.I definitely find that sometimes people happily try to solve problems which have been solved in Nix/Guix since some time already. This means that the pan must be banged even harder.I sporadically work on various FLOSS projects, but mostly teach and write research papers, and I find that NixOS fits my needs perfectly. The language may often be somewhat obscure, so I started reading up on Guix, which looks much cleaner in many aspects. Unfortunately, I still need to use a couple nonfree tools from time to time, so I am a little bit apprehensive (but I am thinking about a VM solution).
(DIR) Post #9qKN2m06BgPtGerKZU by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-25T14:14:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@scolobb There are channels for a lot of nonfree stuff, I use one for my wifi drivers.A cool thing Guix also lets me do is have two configs installed side by side, one with fully free software, and one with some proprietary stuff.There are also some nonfree applications packaged in channels, but I haven't needed those so far.
(DIR) Post #9qKN2mcNtL2dBOluFM by scolobb@bidule.menf.in
2019-12-25T15:34:08.944785Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom I've seen some docs about those channels indeed, but thanks a lot for confirming! I'll definitely try GuixSD on my next machine: even though I like Haskell, I find Nix's syntax waay more obscure than Guile's, and the infrastructure of Guix seems cleaner as well.
(DIR) Post #9qKZYKwpVG4E589Bqa by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-25T17:54:19.138352Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker @sir unreliable message passing protocol which relies on one crashable user-level daemon with no security/access-control that everyone wants to use for very important stuff? (try a "pkill dbus" on your typical Gnu/Linux desktop/phone/… and see if it even recovers)
(DIR) Post #9qKyOoAIW7cIei03JQ by nifker@mastodonten.de
2019-12-25T22:01:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @sir And if we run it in kernel-space or is it not possible?
(DIR) Post #9qKyOoeQi5igAA67HM by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-25T22:32:41.259757Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker @sir Kernel isn't some magical beast you're just pushing the problems under the carpet.
(DIR) Post #9qKyv8aU7fJ1GFfGM4 by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-25T22:38:35.647171Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir counter argument: fedora strips out patent-encumbered codecs from audacious, leading to an MP3 player which until very recently didn't play MP3s on fedora without jumping through additional hoops.
(DIR) Post #9qKzH8DGCDC2TDHyWe by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-25T22:42:32.442542Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir Which goes down to picking the right software repository, stuff like npm/pip/… is chaotic bad, stuff like Fedora is lawful neutral~bad.
(DIR) Post #9qKzNmiiVH9tq5Auky by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-25T22:43:46.599002Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @sir that's the point of flatpak.
(DIR) Post #9qKzbKANSkntKpZLqy by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-25T22:46:11.417254Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir Nah, flatpak will give us gigantic binary blobs with no configuration whatsoever that does not build from source.I think Nix/Guix recipes in the software repo (like the debian folder you sometimes see) might be more something I like.
(DIR) Post #9qL0OF3VFmSbfogBiy by nifker@mastodonten.de
2019-12-25T22:47:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan @sir What are the alternatives to it?
(DIR) Post #9qL0OFSJlWJGumI0P2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-25T22:55:01.283837Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker @sir Learning about Inter-Process-Communication / Data sharing mechanisms that have been tested over the years and proven to be working well? (they all have been present on Unix-likes for decades)I'm quite fond of sockets as a replacement but they aren't the only thing present in the wild.
(DIR) Post #9qL4CFE3C8yYXi9Day by flussence@nulled.red
2019-12-25T22:50:53Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@kaniini @sir counter-counter argument: fedora users can suck it
(DIR) Post #9qL4CFSELQJnFgmXhI by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-25T23:37:41.532762Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@flussence @sir sounds like a great approach to dealing with users, has worked really well for pleroma
(DIR) Post #9qL4LHctddamaw4y4O by wowaname@anime.website
2019-12-25T23:39:17.955794Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir cus muh freedumbs :gnu:
(DIR) Post #9qLU5gpYl97gwIE9lA by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:27:51.941126Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir Wait, seriously? I installed Fedora Core 1 earlier today, and I would have swore that xmms worked with mp3s on it. Maybe I just tried vorbis files, though. :blobcatthink: How recent a policy is that?
(DIR) Post #9qLUCvifnjP18xSUrY by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:29:10.475254Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir Fedora core lol
(DIR) Post #9qLUFqhstXJoSvTvGK by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-26T04:29:40.338404Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @sir dunno how recent but fedora core 1 is quite old ;)
(DIR) Post #9qLUKCSzvxq96waqXo by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:30:29.707709Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@histoire @kaniini @sir Less than surprisingly, installation of Linux has almost universally gotten worse since 2003.
(DIR) Post #9qLUOsXHSpZwkCpMTw by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:31:20.363020Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir It's impressive in a way
(DIR) Post #9qLUfeobjJO976vssS by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:34:22.373682Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir Stuck in the past!Funnily enough, it wasn't old enough to open the RPM I was wanting to open.Luckily, though, rpm.org still distributes binaries of pre-V2 RPM, so I just grabbed one from there.That I have physical, internet-connected hardware that has Fedora Core 1 on it is a bit exciting, though a bit strange. Half the WWW doesn't even work because of the lack of HTTPS, and despite explicitly not installing Mozilla or any of the office/mail clients/game software, it's still taking up an entire _gigabyte!_
(DIR) Post #9qLUlHtHsLV9kgo37o by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:35:23.460107Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@histoire @kaniini @sir I actually dig the aesthetic. Extremely groovy; corporate, but little enough to be playful.
(DIR) Post #9qLUzvCoV52njtuwz2 by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:38:01.858218Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir Fedora's ok. I prefer opensuse.I'm more amused that it is called fedora core. Sounds like slang for music that internet atheists like.
(DIR) Post #9qLV7JzClVt8cc53zs by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:39:22.188051Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@histoire @kaniini @sir I mean, in 2003 (and even in modern times), Red Hat people still saw fedoras and trench coats as "fashionable."It's not their fault, they're just different.
(DIR) Post #9qLVFp4P52BHLLZ9lY by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:40:54.366744Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir So you're saying there is serious cross pollination between r/atheism and red hat?Makes sense.
(DIR) Post #9qLVFqhR1OzqOgpqF6 by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:40:54.235098Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@histoire @kaniini @sir Fedora and OpenSUSE are a bit too bloated for my tastes. I usually go for something with a default install of <100mb.
(DIR) Post #9qLVHSyEDVqdNjSfIm by allison@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:41:12.212742Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @histoire Bluecurve was aesthetic as heck, still my favorite take on GNOME of all time
(DIR) Post #9qLVM0XNMFvae74CbA by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:42:01.563947Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@histoire @kaniini @sir I mean, have you read the systemd source code? They've definitely forsaken God already.
(DIR) Post #9qLVOLDXRPDTMZtuJE by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:42:25.688057Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir My best experience with Linux has come from opensuse.I normally use freebsd though, when I'm not stuck in windows.
(DIR) Post #9qLVQxe3XSgZ7jYN8K by legend@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:42:54.447560Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir try Slackware
(DIR) Post #9qLVSTDjcxU5LJxg9o by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:43:11.495660Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @histoire I'm mostly talking about the icons and install manager, but Bluecurve is interesting!
(DIR) Post #9qLVSgO8faWyBLvfg8 by histoire@neckbeard.xyz
2019-12-26T04:43:13.779232Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @kaniini @sir Even Lucifer looked at systemd and was like.... "Nah"
(DIR) Post #9qLVTpi7UlhVNsp8BE by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:43:26.027087Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@legend @kaniini @sir I have multiple Slackware installs; I've already told you that!
(DIR) Post #9qLVZYXQFt4vrVY6IC by allison@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:44:28.340767Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @histoire It also has a custom font from Bigelow & Holmes (Luxi Sans I think?) for interface elements and text and I think they're the first Linux distro to actually do that (before Ubuntu did it certainly)
(DIR) Post #9qLVfluRSDFh4OHQ7k by legend@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:45:35.634181Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @kick @histoire try Slackware
(DIR) Post #9qLVhFV6v3ed8T8UPg by kick@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:45:51.100192Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @histoire Definitely one of! Ubuntu was the first to use a libre font, though.
(DIR) Post #9qLVmleqmseiJiK64m by allison@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:46:51.526277Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @histoire Yeah Luxi had weird stipulations on distribution, kind of like the bitmapped versions of Syntax used in Oberon or bitmapped versions of Lucida Sans used in Plan 9 and Inferno
(DIR) Post #9qLWitXLeS5XY6Wzk8 by allison@blob.cat
2019-12-26T04:57:21.830836Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kick @histoire Which on that note, can I just take a moment to point out how aesthetic pretty much every incarnation of Oberon is? Between the bitmapped fonts, the tasteful colorschemes, and the whole lack of ostentatiousness of it all
(DIR) Post #9qLYdKnXa97gGja6wi by legend@blob.cat
2019-12-26T05:18:46.305316Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@allison @histoire @kick Oberon good 🧚♂️
(DIR) Post #9qNQnmVqz2MJnrhOKm by martijnbraam@fosstodon.org
2019-12-26T11:32:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniini @sir mp3 still has patents?
(DIR) Post #9qNQnn88ggz3ibby0e by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-26T15:35:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@martijnbraam @sir @kaniini > the MP3 technology became patent-free in the United States on 16 April 2017 [ . . . ] As a result, many free and open-source software projects, such as the Fedora operating system, have decided to start shipping MP3 support by defaulthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Licensing,_ownership_and_legislation
(DIR) Post #9qNXWGOvotnoy13TXM by Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org
2019-12-26T16:35:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke @cagatayy @sir @franz @grainloom RPM is working on rootless support, and there's a port of RPM with DNF to Windows in progress by the Midipix folks. I'm working on bringing it to macOS myself.
(DIR) Post #9qNXWGooGgVEGHA8sC by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-26T16:52:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Conan_Kudo dnf on Windows using minipix? Now I've heard everything. 😀I hope Windows doesn't become a usable development platform before most of the devs have moved to Linux already.
(DIR) Post #9qNZcmRXni17zQVp3o by cagatayy@mastodon.social
2019-12-24T23:50:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom I know it has been a long time but I didn't have a chance to look to Nix/Guix documentation until today. I wrote something with my limited understanding of Nix/Guix (and actually Flatpak too) that may be useful to compare:https://gist.github.com/cagatay-y/8f0e17e5b8fdb35c98287ffccfc1b870
(DIR) Post #9qNac0ipKLMHwHnE12 by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-24T23:58:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy hmmm, it doesn't look like it adds anything that Guix can't do, at least for libre/open packages.conflicting versions are already taken care of in Guix, and you also get reproducable builds and a lot of tooling.
(DIR) Post #9qNac0zUKOgalxaWzA by cagatayy@mastodon.social
2019-12-25T00:12:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom Can Guix do sandboxing? If not, I think that would be an important advantage.For conflicting versions, reproducable builds and tooling (if you mean the environment part) I think they are equal.
(DIR) Post #9qNac1IHCXiNiENXGq by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-25T02:06:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy i doubt they are equal in reproducability, guix can give you a full graph of the inputs for any package, all the way to the bootstrap binaries.
(DIR) Post #9qNac1XAJBcmSPLQTg by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-25T02:54:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy Good comparison article, thanks! Didn't know about OSTree before, and that this is what the new immutable Fedora thing uses, that's pretty cool. Flatpak and OSTree vs Nix/Guix seem similar enough that you could probably implement the one with the other, but I think Nix/Guix are more fine-grained and like @grainloom I suspect Guix/Nix are more intent on Sourcing All The Sources. Not 100% certain though. Would have to look closer at the flatpak package data to find out more.
(DIR) Post #9qNb6t2rv2eh6htFz6 by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-25T02:10:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy for tooling, i also have my doubts. declarative system configs are very cool. right now i'm debugging a wacom udev confif issue and i can do it in a vm by just running `guix system vm` on the config file i used to install the system. it barely takes up any space.and i could then send this file to someone and they could test the exact same system config.AFAIK this is not a goal of Flatpak & co.
(DIR) Post #9qNcempfcn6hddRfvM by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-25T00:58:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy it can, but it doesn't need to 99% of the timethe `guix environment` subcommand natively supports containers and the `guix system` subcommand can also work with various VM and container tech
(DIR) Post #9qNcen9WQyzEdCjWro by cagatayy@mastodon.social
2019-12-25T01:21:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@grainloom Oh, I should have been more clear, I meant things like limiting access to filesystem, network, X11, etc. The app manifest declares which permissions are given by default and it can also be overriden by the user. Flathub checks the permissions in the manifests for submitted apps. Some of this could also be done with Docker but since Flatpak is focused on desktop apps, it is simplified. There is also work to expose permissions in settings apps so the user can control in an easier way.
(DIR) Post #9qNcenTjDr9LdsBfMW by grainloom@cybre.space
2019-12-25T15:48:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cagatayy this whole sandboxing thing shouldn't need this much support machinery tbh. permissions systems shouldn't depend on package management.some of those features would be nice to have in Guix, but the main reason app stores need permission systems is because you can't esily audit closed source crap.
(DIR) Post #9qNeqMBailkINZLMUy by rebutte@tech.lgbt
2019-12-25T17:36:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sir Debian borked package xyz thoughFor example, mediawiki
(DIR) Post #9qNfSADleeFaH6OCJs by clacke@libranet.de
2019-12-26T18:27:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
midipix*
(DIR) Post #9qNfljSEsjZN3FUNma by Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org
2019-12-26T17:01:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke Hah, even with all that, Fedora is miles better as a developer platform!
(DIR) Post #9qNfnszUOgC1Ct4JZg by valhalla@social.gl-como.it
2019-12-26T17:55:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir @kaniini counter-counter-argument: fedora users can be sure that the distribution they get is safe to use in any environment, without risking being sued by malicious entities for patent infringment.The problem here are software patents, not the distributions.
(DIR) Post #9qNfwAFW78pT39VrHM by alcinnz@floss.social
2019-12-25T17:48:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sir One vital need operating system package repositories fill in my opinion is to keep the riff-raff, the unmantained toy projects written for educational purposes and forgotten about, out. And indexing them so apps can ask you to install the software they need, I wish more browsers did this!I've read an anti-opensource article which in large part seemed more to be against these uncurated repos.Why do people think computers have solved this problem? They're doing a poor job!
(DIR) Post #9qNjm9bK4MQzxaC7H6 by zem@conesphere.social
2019-12-25T18:31:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sirahhwww good that someone is speaking that out lout!
(DIR) Post #9qNzeQ0UROiZBAfLCC by sir@cmpwn.com
2019-12-25T22:14:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker @lanodan oh my god please don't mention kdbus
(DIR) Post #9qOdlLsICPA0YagzM8 by nifker@mastodonten.de
2019-12-27T11:55:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lanodan What can we do about libnotify then? Are there alternative specs which dont require Dbus?
(DIR) Post #9qOdlMNUKQ787LHtyq by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
2019-12-27T17:00:20.614190Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nifker For stuff like libnotify there is multiple ways but I think I would have it maintain a socket in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, like wayland does, this has the limit that only one daemon can be easily maintained per user.As for the protocol, I think the same structure as libnotify or web notifications could be used but not sure how they look like, otherwise some other standard, XML would probably be a good start because of it's good extensibility with fallback.
(DIR) Post #9qP00TySZ8GL0pCHB2 by wuwei@fosstodon.org
2019-12-26T11:55:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kaniiniInstalls a distro with extremly strict rules about including proprietary software and then complains about not having some piece of proprietary software by defaultI don't get it, it's like installing BSD and complaining there's no Microsoft office@sir
(DIR) Post #9qP00URWp3VySynUUC by kaniini@socially.whimsic.al
2019-12-27T21:02:34.988895Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wuwei @sir yes, great, but as developers of software consumed by "users" who don't care and tell us our software is broken, there is a place for flatpak.but, sure, gaslighting the user who just wants to play their MP3s is cool