Post 9nWRvtJCuHbYB9DA4O by sajith@toot.cafe
(DIR) More posts by sajith@toot.cafe
(DIR) Post #9nUHrBSQWCQTeps0kS by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-01T15:33:16Z
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social media dot jpg
(DIR) Post #9nUHrBp79qZenCU86y by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-01T16:46:48Z
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@sajith An early storyboard for Planet of the Apes?
(DIR) Post #9nUJimn8XeUwkVgFYe by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-01T17:07:43Z
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@fitheach This is a depiction of a battle scene from the Ramayana!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_at_Lanka,_Ramayana,_Udaipur,_1649-53.jpg
(DIR) Post #9nUKolOkjcTM7TgnEu by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-01T17:20:00Z
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@sajith I suspected if I made a facetious comment you might come back and explain. ๐ It is a fantastically detailed painting. I've skim read the WP article on the Ramayana, but would be interested to learn more on the meaning behind it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramayana
(DIR) Post #9nUQSZQPAcQML5GLrc by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-01T18:23:10Z
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@fitheach Well, it is an epic and I'm afraid it won't fit in 500 characters. ;-)Quick summary: during their exile in forest, king Rama's wife Sita was abducted by Ravana, king of Lanka. Rama forged an alliance with the monkey kingdom, and together they fought Ravana's army, and took Sita back.There's intricate prologue, epilogue, and subplots to this. Ramayana is ancient lore, and there are several variations and adaptations of this story throughout India and the rest of south east Asia.
(DIR) Post #9nUUOrtUxZBUHLMS0G by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-01T19:07:20Z
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@sajith It is obviously an enthralling adventure story, is it also religious? Are there moral lessons in the story?
(DIR) Post #9nUgaxHlwH5tvQFFUu by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-01T21:23:56Z
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@fitheach It is religious as much as Hinduism is a religion. ๐ (Per Wikipedia: "Historically, the term (Hindu) has also been used as a geographical, cultural, and later religious identifier for people living in the Indian subcontinent." People of the land of Indus river are Hindus, and so Hinduism is very unlike Abrahamic religions.)I believe the Ramayana can be a story with moral lessons, or not, depending on the interpretation. It contains multitudes, just like most ancient epics! ๐
(DIR) Post #9nUhZnd8S5RHdzFZTs by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-01T21:35:01Z
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@sajith Reading the WP synopsis of the Ramayana it didn't come across as religious. The main characters don't seem to be deities. This contrasts with other epic tales from Celtic, Norse, & Greek mythology, for example. Though I don't know anything about Hinduism, and may be misinterpreting.
(DIR) Post #9nUjX2mxpulrhGf3vE by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-01T21:56:52Z
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@fitheach I think you have it right. Obviously it will depend on who you ask. I am not religious, but I like mythologies, and I think much of what's in there is ancient tribal history that morphed through many generations of oral story-telling traditions.In modern India however, Rama is a figure of religious importance, and his image has been a very effective propaganda tool for our ruling right wing party.
(DIR) Post #9nUkLsFyknFVnjTE7E by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-01T22:06:06Z
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@sajith Ah, that is interesting. Care to elaborate? How do you make a mythological figure important in present day politics?BTW the painting you posted at the top of the thread was created by Sahibdin, who was Muslim.
(DIR) Post #9nV6HEErtO5J1WzWHg by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-02T02:11:47Z
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@fitheach By careful strategy, propaganda, and appealing to majority's feelings about being threatened by the "other". Sounds familiar?Our ruling party's (Bharatiya Janata Party) former avatar, Jana Sangh, had 3 seats in the parliament in 1951; today they have the absolute majority with seemingly no viable competition. Their path to power includes raising Rama's supposed birthplace as an election issue, and inciting riots.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party#BJP_(1980%E2%80%93present) 17th century was a different time. ๐
(DIR) Post #9nVIDNE9jKxJC0aPfE by rajeesh@aana.site
2019-10-02T04:25:30Z
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@fitheach @sajith Indiaโs two epics โ Ramayana and Mahabharata โ are full of moral and psychological crises stretching and straining relationships and having to make difficult choices and decisions, duties... Both have grand canvas and narratives. But, most people have simplistic religious view towards these epics, and I think that is because they have not read it with adequate care or rigour and also because like Sajith mentioned, these stories have been largely diluted to religious fanaticism.
(DIR) Post #9nWEhloGgzSVSkfz0q by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-02T15:20:56Z
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@sajith That article has given me a good feel for how Hindu nationalism has evolved. It also states that Rama is a deity. Would it be correct to say that Rama is symbolic of a continuing campaign against Muslims and also the existence of Pakistan?
(DIR) Post #9nWF2Gn9DClhLKvXE0 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-02T15:24:38Z
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@rajeesh What meaning can be taken from the monkey army? Does it have some symbolism or is it just a fantasy element?@sajith
(DIR) Post #9nWRvtJCuHbYB9DA4O by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-02T17:49:08Z
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@fitheach This is speculation (fairly popular, I suspect), but: considering that Ramayana is composed of many orally passed stories that reflected ancient tribal history in some rather inaccurate manner (as with all mythology), "monkey army" was likely the forest dwelling people of southern India.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nWZUQXoXkhEmYSVLk by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-02T19:13:50Z
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@sajith Fascinating! So, because the people lived in forests or because part of their clothing looked like tails, they were described as monkeys. Artists (perhaps) took a cue from this, and drew them as actual monkeys.@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nWd0ZN8VF4uZWWjya by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-02T19:53:15Z
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@fitheach Those are some possibilities.By the time Ramayana stories appeared in these art pieces, "monkey army" was already a well-established part of the legend. That Rama fought and defeated a powerful army with the help of a monkey army elevated the myth.Clearly there's going to be no photographic evidence, and I'm pretty sure no historian ever was an eyewitness to these events. We're still in the realm of speculation!We can still enjoy and be enthralled by the stories.@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nX8J4dK6viXJmOz3o by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-03T01:43:57Z
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@fitheach Those are some possibilities.By the time Ramayana stories appeared in these art pieces, "monkey army" was already a well-established part of the legend, I think. That Rama fought and defeated a powerful army with the help of such an army likely elevated the myth.Clearly there's no photographic evidence, and no historian witnessed these events. We're still in the realm of speculation!We can still enjoy and be enthralled by the stories.@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nXdNQNyH71uWFm9j6 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-03T07:32:04Z
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@sajith Any recommendations on how I could approach these stories in English? The Ramayana, and particularly, the Mahabharata are huge works, so something I could dip in and out of might be best.@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYVOR0won4cHcwArI by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-03T17:37:20Z
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@fitheach I am not sure what the "best" books would be, but these two are modern and promising takes on the epics:https://devdutt.com/books/jaya/https://devdutt.com/books/sita-an-illustrated-retelling-of-the-ramayana/I have both the books, currently packed and stored in a friend's house. Just haven't gotten around to actually finish reading them. You know how that works! ๐ @rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYdrtUSp5xedDIkpE by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-03T19:12:18Z
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@sajith Excellent. Thanks! The price isn't bad at around ยฃ18. Should I start with the Ramayana or the Mahabharata?@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYgpOH2DMEX69WAuu by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-03T19:45:28Z
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@fitheach Read Ramayana first.Chronologically Ramayana precedes Mahabharata. Also Mahabharata is much bigger!Per Wikipedia: "Mahฤbhฤrata is roughly ten times the length of the Iliad and the Odyssey combined, or about four times the length of the Rฤmฤyaแนa."Don't let that deter you though: they're still very enjoyable. ๐ @rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYiNvq41jR4zww9wW by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-03T19:48:34Z
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@fitheach There's also comic book versions of the epics at https://www.amarchitrakatha.com (I grew up reading them, and loved them), but caveat emptor:https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/12/the-comics-that-redefined-hinduism/539838/@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYiNw13MsE5Y24w4W by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-03T20:02:52Z
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@sajith That was interesting. However, comics are not my thing, I'll go for the books, Ramayana first.@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYja2xjT0q2WMrfLE by sajith@toot.cafe
2019-10-03T20:16:16Z
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@fitheach I dislike superhero genre comics, but I have found some non-superhero comics really enjoyable: Logicomix, Persepolis, Oishinbo, etc. comes to mind.I hope Pattanaik's version works for you. If not, there must be someone else's version. ๐ Speaking of which, have you seen Sita Sings the Blues?@rajeesh
(DIR) Post #9nYkJ2Z3nEs8JmmMEa by fitheach@mstdn.io
2019-10-03T20:24:27Z
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@sajith Comics in general just don't appeal to me. I haven't seen "Sita Sings the Blues", in fact, I hadn't heard of it before you mentioned it.@rajeesh